BillsFanM.D. Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44396682/ns/business-us_business/#.TmTvn3PFKUA Good thing our government re-upped on that no layoff clause last year...and the 'better benefits' than most federal employees. I was a Federal employee for five years. Can't imagine how they could be any better.
Buftex Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44396682/ns/business-us_business/#.TmTvn3PFKUA Good thing our government re-upped on that no layoff clause last year...and the 'better benefits' than most federal employees. I was a Federal employee for five years. Can't imagine how they could be any better. Kill all government workers...they are a blight, and a drain on society!
BillsFanM.D. Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 Kill all government workers...they are a blight, and a drain on society! No. That's no good either. Rational negotiations/benefits would be a start though. 80% of expenditures dedicated to labor---> not very realistic. In the case of the post office, however, sending a letter cross country for under 50 cents is 'cheap' in my mind. They have some wiggle room to increase fee charges. Adjust your price and let supply and demand figure it out...and then the post office will accomodate/change/compete or they implode. Giving the post office employees a blank check leaves no choice but to close the entire agency. "We have no revenue and we're broke but we cannot be laid off and our benefits should be better than most other citizens." Good luck bringing that to the table in private industry/real world.
KD in CA Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Kill all government workers...they are a blight, and a drain on society! Oh come on, let's save that type of response for Dave or peeBills. You know better. Gross abuses by gov't union bosses who take advantage of politicians who have little vested interest in doing anything other than giving the unions anything they want (in exchange for votes) is a huge problem in our country. As for the issue of the post office, it's absurd that we can't operate a postal service at break-even. End Saturday delivery, close the unnecessary branches and scale back the bennies. Downsize the workforce via attrition and early retirements. If they need to raise rates, that's fine too but at some point that stops being accretive to revenue. It's not that difficult if the politicians start caring more about our fiscal future than their reelection.
Buftex Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Oh come on, let's save that type of response for Dave or peeBills. You know better. Gross abuses by gov't union bosses who take advantage of politicians who have little vested interest in doing anything other than giving the unions anything they want (in exchange for votes) is a huge problem in our country. As for the issue of the post office, it's absurd that we can't operate a postal service at break-even. End Saturday delivery, close the unnecessary branches and scale back the bennies. Downsize the workforce via attrition and early retirements. If they need to raise rates, that's fine too but at some point that stops being accretive to revenue. It's not that difficult if the politicians start caring more about our fiscal future than their reelection. Sorry, just trying to get into the "new" spirit that seems so popular here...
KD in CA Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Sorry, just trying to get into the "new" spirit that seems so popular here... Yes, the Daves have really changed things for the better on this board.
Buftex Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 No. That's no good either. Rational negotiations/benefits would be a start though. 80% of expenditures dedicated to labor---> not very realistic. In the case of the post office, however, sending a letter cross country for under 50 cents is 'cheap' in my mind. They have some wiggle room to increase fee charges. Adjust your price and let supply and demand figure it out...and then the post office will accomodate/change/compete or they implode. Giving the post office employees a blank check leaves no choice but to close the entire agency. "We have no revenue and we're broke but we cannot be laid off and our benefits should be better than most other citizens." Good luck bringing that to the table in private industry/real world. The post master is actually quite profitable, but operates under requirements that no private inustry/real world could survive under, so I agree with you. However, it isn't the benefits that are killing the post office, it is the post masters requriement to have 20 years of pension banked, ahead of time, that is putting the squeeze on. Republicans have been trying to kill the US Postal service for years, and may finally be getting there...privatizing everything is the way to go! http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinnell/assault-american-unions-extends-p "Rolando lays out the real root of the problem: "The problem lies elsewhere: the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade, an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The roughly $5.5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger." Here is the part where you are supposed to say that the source is not legit! Yes, the Daves have really changed things for the better on this board. These are the Daves I know, I know...these are the Daves! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVC28UWH-GQ
Bishop Hedd Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Kill all government workers...they are a blight, and a drain on society! That seems to be the new mantra these days. Wonder how teabaggers or conservatives or whatever the RNC is calling themselves these days celebrate Labor Day? That's sorta like nazis celebrating hanukkah.
Merriman_sacks_Brady Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 That seems to be the new mantra these days. Wonder how teabaggers or conservatives or whatever the RNC is calling themselves these days celebrate Labor Day? That's sorta like nazis celebrating hanukkah. That's not funny. Labor day is actually a socialist union holiday. Look at America now. Half the people own two cars, everyone is overweight and yet the Liberals think we need more. People need to realize that government can't keep this up. Not everyone can have a job, not everyone can own two cars and healthcare cant be socialized for all. Wake up to reality
Buftex Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) That's not funny. Labor day is actually a socialist union holiday. Look at America now. Half the people own two cars, everyone is overweight and yet the Liberals think we need more. People need to realize that government can't keep this up. Not everyone can have a job, not everyone can own two cars and healthcare cant be socialized for all. Wake up to reality If we didn't measure everything by how much money it makes, we could do quite a bit. Edited September 5, 2011 by Buftex
BillsFanM.D. Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinnell/assault-american-unions-extends-p "Rolando lays out the real root of the problem: "The problem lies elsewhere: the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade, an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The roughly $5.5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger." Here is the part where you are supposed to say that the source is not legit! OK. It's not the 'best site' but it is an interesting read and some good info there. NALC also has a site with similar self sufficient data. It is nonsustainable, however, given current state of affairs/obligations. The subtitle of the thread is union/government overkill. Hence, two parts here. As currently designed, it is an unsustainable system and needs to change. I'll agree that there surely are issues from both sides (as expected). The forcing of 'pre-payment' for retirement seems silly. Remove it and move on. Long term bennies relative to non federal/state employed citizens are still way over the top. It's a place where those folks can concede some in my opinion. As I said, I've been on both sides of work (private sector; federal and now private again by my choice). I used to snicker just reading my benefits as a Fed employee. Way too much! That seems to be the new mantra these days. Wonder how teabaggers or conservatives or whatever the RNC is calling themselves these days celebrate Labor Day? That's sorta like nazis celebrating hanukkah. Thanks for contributing. I suggested reasonable benefits and perhaps increasing the cost of postage as they provide great service at a very cheap price. Hence....you compared me to a Nazi.
3rdnlng Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 OK. It's not the 'best site' but it is an interesting read and some good info there. NALC also has a site with similar self sufficient data. It is nonsustainable, however, given current state of affairs/obligations. The subtitle of the thread is union/government overkill. Hence, two parts here. As currently designed, it is an unsustainable system and needs to change. I'll agree that there surely are issues from both sides (as expected). The forcing of 'pre-payment' for retirement seems silly. Remove it and move on. Long term bennies relative to non federal/state employed citizens are still way over the top. It's a place where those folks can concede some in my opinion. As I said, I've been on both sides of work (private sector; federal and now private again by my choice). I used to snicker just reading my benefits as a Fed employee. Way too much! Thanks for contributing. I suggested reasonable benefits and perhaps increasing the cost of postage as they provide great service at a very cheap price. Hence....you compared me to a Nazi. When a person has no game that's the kind of stuff they resort to.
IDBillzFan Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 That seems to be the new mantra these days. Wonder how teabaggers or conservatives or whatever the RNC is calling themselves these days celebrate Labor Day? That's sorta like nazis celebrating hanukkah. Do you break out the "nazi" label when "racists" doesn't work? Or just when you're desperately staring down the barrel of a single-term failure of such epic proportions that even Jimmy Carter is getting excited? :lol: Nazis! Racists! Baggers! Hijacked!
3rdnlng Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Do you break out the "nazi" label when "racists" doesn't work? Or just when you're desperately staring down the barrel of a single-term failure of such epic proportions that even Jimmy Carter is getting excited? :lol: Nazis! Racists! Baggers! Hijacked! You forgot "Terrorists".
DaveinElma Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Kill all government workers...they are a blight, and a drain on society! Such nice people these union folks. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/05/jimmy_hoffa_at_obama_event_on_gop_lets_take_these_son_of_bitches_out.html
Adam Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 No. That's no good either. Rational negotiations/benefits would be a start though. 80% of expenditures dedicated to labor---> not very realistic. In the case of the post office, however, sending a letter cross country for under 50 cents is 'cheap' in my mind. They have some wiggle room to increase fee charges. Adjust your price and let supply and demand figure it out...and then the post office will accomodate/change/compete or they implode. Giving the post office employees a blank check leaves no choice but to close the entire agency. "We have no revenue and we're broke but we cannot be laid off and our benefits should be better than most other citizens." Good luck bringing that to the table in private industry/real world. Who sends letters anymore......we need to live in the now.
OCinBuffalo Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) If we didn't measure everything by how much money it makes, we could do quite a bit. Wait...we measure lots of things by how much money they make, and that works more often than not. We also expect some things to simply break even, because they have intangible benefit. But those are the only 2 rules that we are willing to put up with in our daily lives. Nobody is f'ing about throwing money at something that fails, year after year, and shows no improvement, even when we spend more money on it. You would sell or scrap any part of your life that did that. I am all for things that can break even, and I am for running a little deficit here and there, provided it is made up. But, when you are already taxing 45% of my income, you can blow telling me to support things that consistently lose money and consistently do not achieve results right out your ass. You can also blow painting me, who has been paying MORE than my fair share since college, as greedy, or cold, or whatever else, out your ass as well. The simple fact is the government's scope is way out of hand. The solution is to cut the scope. Period.You know this. Edited September 6, 2011 by OCinBuffalo
Magox Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Kill all government workers...they are a blight, and a drain on society! David Norfolk! Is that you? Thanks for contributing. I suggested reasonable benefits and perhaps increasing the cost of postage as they provide great service at a very cheap price. Hence....you compared me to a Nazi. Don't mind him, no one really does.
KD in CA Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 The post master is actually quite profitable, but operates under requirements that no private inustry/real world could survive under, so I agree with you. However, it isn't the benefits that are killing the post office, it is the post masters requirement to have 20 years of pension banked, ahead of time, that is putting the squeeze on. Republicans have been trying to kill the US Postal service for years, and may finally be getting there...privatizing everything is the way to go! http://crooksandliar...nions-extends-p "Rolando lays out the real root of the problem: "The problem lies elsewhere: the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade, an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The roughly $5.5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger." So the fix is to NOT fund pension and health benefit guarantees? Isn't that why our state governments are already tens of billions of dollars in the red on retiree pensions/benefits? Maybe I just need a clearer explanation as to what "pre-fund future retiree health benefits for 75 years" means. Does it really mean something other than the PS is required to fund the present value of the projected future steam of retiree benefit payments to current and past employees? Because that's exactly what every company and government is supposed to be doing. The forcing of 'pre-payment' for retirement seems silly. Remove it and move on. Seriously? You're just going to take that article at face value and conclude something is 'silly' without getting any understanding of the actual requirement?
finknottle Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 "Rolando lays out the real root of the problem: "The problem lies elsewhere: the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade, an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The roughly $5.5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger." Don't know about you, but my pension is by law 100% funded - it's called a 401k. If you are refering only to a traditional pension, private firms offering them are also required to pre-fund.
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