The cost cutting reason

[Kelly the Dog]

The new cap system doesn't go into effect until 2013.

The league, as a whole, has to spend 99% of the cap, in cash, this year.

 

If they wanted to save money they could have cut or traded numerous other players. Hangartner was the only one, and he didnt make a ton and wasn't going to play and didn't at all fit the kind of player they want at OG/C. I don't see hardly any cost cutting whatsoever. In fact, just the opposite.

[MattM]

I believe some of the NFL teams including the Bills lost their value in the past two seasons as the US Economy has also been fighting a failed system. I agree that the NFL "branding" means a lot and the fact that there are only 32 slots available in this exclusive club. Still, someone wanting to pay for this franchise is going to look at the money they would have to spend to bring back the franchise. Unless of course you are talking about a move to LA, where everyone seems to think that the money will come magically.

 

The Patriots, Eagles, Jets all were a lousy team. Their new owners pumped money and built the franchise. That had produced those three owners far more money than if they would have remained status quo.

 

What do all those last teams you mention have in common? They're in some of the biggest and richest markets in sports. Might have something to do with their owners pumping new $ into them....

[Buffaloed in Pa]

I respectfully disagree with your analysis. Even in a very bad economy the NFL made more money than it ever did. If that is the case then how much more will the projections be for an increase in profit and franchise value? In addition, the owners just signed a more favorable long term labor agreement that enhances profit and franchise value.

 

 

 

The current owner is 92 yrs old. He has a completely different vision on ownership than the more enlightened owners you referred to. He has run the franchise in a particular stringent way for half a century. Do you really believe that at this stage in life he is going to change his approach? Do you think at 92 he is going to infuse the franchise with his own money when his past history has demonstrated a reluctance to invest in the product?

right-on

[joey greco]

This whole cost-cutting thing is complete nonsense invented by the Chicken Littles. Answer me this? If Ralph is selling next year why did we extend Kyle Williams, and talking extensions with Parrish and Steve Johnson??? DUH!!!

 

PTR

 

Are you kidding? You get a mandate that the team cap is 20 million below the actual cap. You still do your best to have as good a team as possible. You sign guys, but have to release/trade others to stay within the team budget.

 

Do you really need to have something this simple spelled out for you? 20 million under the cap for no good reason except additional profit. Cheap.

 

DUH

 

JG

[PromoTheRobot]

Are you kidding? You get a mandate that the team cap is 20 million below the actual cap. You still do your best to have as good a team as possible. You sign guys, but have to release/trade others to stay within the team budget.

 

Do you really need to have something this simple spelled out for you? 20 million under the cap for no good reason except additional profit. Cheap.

 

DUH

 

JG

 

Prove that statement. Produce the article that says the Bills are under orders to stay $20M under the cap! You can't because it's all made up in your head.

 

PTR

[Captain Hindsight]

The Bills are cutting costs and moving more money into their scouting department.

 

We hired Whaley, fired Modrak and hired some other scouts. I recently read an article about this is how small market teams must do to compete in the future. Slash saleries and improve scouting.

 

As much as I disliked Evans being traded and now Hangman being released (Who by the way was a stadium whipping boy last year), these moves fit that model and I think that is exactly whats going on here

[JohnC]

The league, as a whole, has to spend 99% of the cap, in cash, this year.p

 

There is no league minimum this year for individual teams. The imposed expenditure mandate per team goes into effect in 2013. You are correct that the 99% cap in cash is a league average. Next year, the Bills will again be under the cash to cap formula because as an individual team they won't be compelled to the higher level of spending until 2013. My point is there should be no surprise that when the organization is not compelled to spend at a particular level they won't.

 

If they wanted to save money they could have cut or traded numerous other players. Hangartner was the only one, and he didnt make a ton and wasn't going to play and didn't at all fit the kind of player they want at OG/C. I don't see hardly any cost cutting whatsoever. In fact, just the opposite.

 

As you stated Hangartner was not an overly expensive player. For a team lacking in OL reserves, especially being versatile enough to play C/G, he would have been a useful player. He was released because they felt that they could replace him with a cheaper player, not a better player. The Bills have a general policy that if you are getting starter money (as he was) and are not starting then you are very vulnerable to being cut. Langston Walker was an example of this type of approach. He was paid very well, even for a LT. Although he wasn't adequate to play that position (team miscalculation again) he still would have been a solid RT, swing tackle and swing guard. When he got cut it left the team in a major bind on the OL. In reality, he was cut for financial reasons, not for team reasons. In my view similar to the Hangartner situation.

Edited September 4, 2011 by JohnC

[eme123]

It's sounds to me like the negative nancys have been reading Mike Schopp/WGR's blog post.

 

Everyone the Bills have dumped have been because of lack of ability. Hangartner has been atrocious against 2nd stringers. Evans was past his prime and totally clashed with what Chan Gailey is trying to do. (I love that the same people who are crying about the lack of O-line depth are the same people that are crying about Evans. Lee Evans one and only move is burning down the field. How was he supposed to get there w/ the so called krappy o-line)

 

If they are salary dumping then why even draft Dareus. Trade the pick. Why pick up Barnett, Morrison.

 

The biggest indicator to me that the Bills aren't dumping salaries is the way management and coaching conducts themselves. Why would guys at the age of Gailey/Nix stick around a situation like that. A situation where they are told who to get rid of and when they can and can't have money. Seriously, at their age they don't need the money, and just want rings. So why would they bother if they didn't feel the Bills organization was willing to do whatever they could to helpmmeet their goals. That doesn't add up.

[Kelly the Dog]

There is no league minimum this year for individual teams. The imposed expenditure mandate per team goes into effect in 2013. You are correct that the 99% cap in cash is a league average. Next year, the Bills will again be under the cash to cap formula because as an individual team they won't be compelled to the higher level of spending until 2013. My point is there should be no surprise that when the organization is not compelled to spend at a particular level they won't.

 

 

 

As you stated Hangartner was not an overly expensive player. For a team lacking in OL reserves, especially being versatile enough to play C/G, he would have been a useful player. He was released because they felt that they could replace him with a cheaper player, not a better player. The Bills have a general policy that if you are getting starter money (as he was) and are not starting then you are very vulnerable to being cut. Langston Walker was an example of this type of approach. He was paid very well, even for a LT. Although he wasn't adequate to play that position (team miscalculation again) he still would have been a solid RT, swing tackle and swing guard. When he got cut it left the team in a major bind on the OL. In reality, he was cut for financial reasons, not for team reasons. In my view similar to the Hangartner situation.

My point is if the league has to spend 99% of the cap, the Bills likely are not going to spend less than the 89% they will have to spend when the floor goes into effect. Some teams will spend over but it won't allow any team IMO to spend less than 90. We'll see how that works out. I will bet you though that the Bills will spend very close to the cap in cash this year when all is said and done, after they re-sign Roscoe, SJ, and very likely Fitz during the season.

 

On Hangartner, I think it was a combination of at least four factors all of which played into his release. In my order of importance:

1] He just wasn't very good.

2] He doesn't at all fit the Gailey/Nix prototype interior lineman which is huge.

3] He makes too much money to be a back-up and isn't worth his salary.

4] They want to develop a line together with players that fit their model and with his limited ceiling and smallish body and playing style he wasn't going to grow with the others so they might as well try to groom one of the young guys.

 

It doesn't at all have to be one reason or another, and usually isn't.

[JohnC]

My point is if the league has to spend 99% of the cap, the Bills likely are not going to spend less than the 89% they will have to spend when the floor goes into effect. Some teams will spend over but it won't allow any team IMO to spend less than 90. We'll see how that works out. I will bet you though that the Bills will spend very close to the cap in cash this year when all is said and done, after they re-sign Roscoe, SJ, and very likely Fitz during the season.

 

The new deals that will be signed this year will not be spent this year. The team is currently substantially under the cap and are also very much under their own self-imposed cash to cap formula.

 

 

On Hangartner, I think it was a combination of at least four factors all of which played into his release. In my order of importance:

1] He just wasn't very good.

2] He doesn't at all fit the Gailey/Nix prototype interior lineman which is huge.

3] He makes too much money to be a back-up and isn't worth his salary.

4] They want to develop a line together with players that fit their model and with his limited ceiling and smallish body and playing style he wasn't going to grow with the others so they might as well try to groom one of the young guys.

 

It doesn't at all have to be one reason or another, and usually isn't.

 

I have not suggested that Hangartner is a superior player. If he is over-payed it is not dramatically so, especially for a team substantially under the cap. I am also not suggesting that Hangartner is a long-term player on this team. My point is very simple: Are the Bills a better team with him or not? He is an experienced and versatile lineman who would have been a useful player as a reserve. In my opinion the deciding factor in cutting him had to do with his salary and not his utility to the team.

[notwoz]

It's sounds to me like the negative nancys have been reading Mike Schopp/WGR's blog post.

 

 

Bingo!

[Kelly the Dog]

The new deals that will be signed this year will not be spent this year. The team is currently substantially under the cap and are also very much under their own self-imposed cash to cap formula.

 

Of course a good chunk of the new deals will be spent this year. Kyle Williams new deal is 17 million guaranteed. A substantial portion of that will be in cash, this year, millions, owed to him as soon as he signed the deal. His salary was only 1.75 mil this year, and a 1 mil roster bonus, which was all he was going to receive. That's money spent this year. Each of the other new deals will be similar, with SJ's probably being substantial. He will get a chunk of cash this year which will be money spent this year. Roscoe will get a few million more this year. Not sure what they are going to do with Fitz. The Bills will end up being close to the cap by the end of this regular season when the 99% overall figure must be met.

 

Granted, if this was not a year that they had to re-sign their best defensive player of the last couple years, their rising star WR and their QB, I think they would end up far less than cash to the cap. But we are talking about this year.

 

The salary cap doesn't matter, although Kyle's added 6 mil a year to it. Cash is what matters to the Bills. And they will spend a lot of cash.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog