Torell Troup is Horrible

[John Cocktosten]

Was Cornell Green and Merriman Modrak's pick too? Any more excuses on Buddy's behalf? Buddy is clueless and stubborn. I wish a local reporter would pin him down and make him accountable for this team but Buddy would just condescendingly dismiss the notion that he has failed.

 

What I don't get is that there has been no emphasis on OLB's. They are THE biggest play makers in a 3-4! Look at what Mathews does for GB or what Harrison/Woodly (Lloyd,Green, Brown, Porter, Gildon before them) do in Pitt. Instead he thinks Kelsay (career underachieving LDE) and Merriman (chronically injured)should be able to play effectively and for an entire season at the most impactful position on D . When they predictably go down or suck, the Bills are so desperate for depth that they have to play Carrington and Johnson (both 300lbs) at those positions? Way to build through the draft Buddy! I know, we needed a scatback.

I wonder what Pierre Paul would look like (Please don't give me that he couldn't play in a 3-4 because every 3-4 OLB was a DE in college). Instead Buddy goes with a RB who tightens up upon contact. And then there's Troupe.... it's friggen groundhog day with this franchise. It's almost like they try to suck and Buddy's just keeping with tradition.

[CardinalScotts]

Buddy's first draft is looking like a bust.

 

but his second is looking good !...i really mean it's looking good. Troup had a bad back- anyone had a bad back it's debilatating

 

 

Marcell Dareus - despite playing along no other NFL caliber players since Kyle Williams injury, Dareus has done a good job and is constantly double teamed even in the Jet game.

 

Aaron Williams - this guy looks like a stud of a player

 

Kelvin Sheppard - good tackler, good speed trouble with assignments but still looks like he's going to be a good player

 

Da'Norris Searcy - another hitter who will learn pass coverage, another player and likely starter next year

 

Chris Hairston - already started some games has been hot and cold, has some tools and is not a project. Could develop into a solid lineman

 

Chris White - special teams contributor who knows from there

 

Justin Rogers - limited time but looks like he can be in the mix (and i don't mean like Reggie Corner)

 

that's not a bad draft....anytime you take a DT he's not going to put up stats like a DE or blitzing LB especially if he has another pass rusher to work with...we all want these guys to play like a five year NFL veteran but unless your not realistic it's not going to happen. Over all a good draft so far

Edited December 1, 2011 by CardinalScotts

[PDaDdy]

I wouldn't say a bust, but it doesn't look like there are any home runs. Carrington, Moats, Easley, Batten and Troup all look like possible starters/backups. Carrington, Easley or Batten may even be starting by year's end. That's not bad for their second year. I also think that Moats is being misused.

 

Easley can't stay healthy either. He has everything you want. Size, height, speed. If you aren't healthy and you can't play. Troup has been nothing but injury problems since he has been here. I feel for the kid but if you aren't healthy you can't play and you can't help us win.

 

I don't know how we have ended up with all of these brittle players the last 5 years or so.

[C.Biscuit97]

Was Cornell Green and Merriman Modrak's pick too? Any more excuses on Buddy's behalf? Buddy is clueless and stubborn. I wish a local reporter would pin him down and make him accountable for this team but Buddy would just condescendingly dismiss the notion that he has failed.

 

What I don't get is that there has been no emphasis on OLB's. They are THE biggest play makers in a 3-4! Look at what Mathews does for GB or what Harrison/Woodly (Lloyd,Green, Brown, Porter, Gildon before them) do in Pitt. Instead he thinks Kelsay (career underachieving LDE) and Merriman (chronically injured)should be able to play effectively and for an entire season at the most impactful position on D . When they predictably go down or suck, the Bills are so desperate for depth that they have to play Carrington and Johnson (both 300lbs) at those positions? Way to build through the draft Buddy! I know, we needed a scatback.

I wonder what Pierre Paul would look like (Please don't give me that he couldn't play in a 3-4 because every 3-4 OLB was a DE in college). Instead Buddy goes with a RB who tightens up upon contact. And then there's Troupe.... it's friggen groundhog day with this franchise. It's almost like they try to suck and Buddy's just keeping with tradition.

 

You're just bitter because he passed on your franchise QB, Jimmy Clausen.

[nodnarb]

This thread title is dumb.

 

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

Dumb.

 

When Troup's back is finally healthy, it will look even dumber.

Edited December 1, 2011 by nodnarb

[Bangarang]

NTs take time to develop. That's a man's position. How many NTs do you see coming out of college and holding the POA, stuffing the run, and consistently take on double teams while occasionally getting to the QB?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Easley can't stay healthy either. He has everything you want. Size, height, speed. If you aren't healthy and you can't play. Troup has been nothing but injury problems since he has been here. I feel for the kid but if you aren't healthy you can't play and you can't help us win.

 

I don't know how we have ended up with all of these brittle players the last 5 years or so.

Really? Did you have any sort of hunch that Merriman might not last the entire season, for example?

 

While some may argue the term "bust" may not apply to Troup because of injury or his very short career to date, I am curious if there is an accepted term for players that are brittle and never contribute squat that does apply to these situations? Something like "brittle glass baubles" or "damaged goods" perhaps? McCargo was another DT this team drafted high, who had a bad back such that the Colts refused to complete a deal for him as damaged goods; and, he never really did a thing. Drafting a player that can't contribute, whether it is because he sucks or because he's a perpetually injured brittle glass bauble, sets your team back just the same.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Easley can't stay healthy either. He has everything you want. Size, height, speed. If you aren't healthy and you can't play. Troup has been nothing but injury problems since he has been here. I feel for the kid but if you aren't healthy you can't play and you can't help us win.

 

I don't know how we have ended up with all of these brittle players the last 5 years or so.

 

Really? Did you have any sort of hunch that Merriman might not last the entire season, for example?

 

While some may argue the term "bust" may not apply to Troup because of injury or his very short career to date, I am curious if there is an accepted term for players that are brittle and never contribute squat that does apply to these situations? Something like "brittle glass baubles" or "damaged goods" perhaps? McCargo was another DT this team drafted high, who had a bad back such that the Colts refused to complete a deal for him as damaged goods; and, he never really did a thing. Drafting a player that can't contribute, whether it is because he sucks or because he's a perpetually injured brittle glass bauble, sets your team back just the same.

You seem to be implying that injury-proneness is predictable, and that the Bills should have known better.

 

You mention Merriman but also Troup and you dredge up McCargo too.

 

As a redshirt freshman McCargo played well and started 23 games over his last two college seasons.

 

 

As for Troup, he played 9 games as a true freshman, started 11 games as a sophomore, 12 games as a junior, and 13 games as a senior so he also had zero injury history… in fact he had a history of durability.

 

Easley was a walk-on and didn't play much in two seasons at Connecticut but he had no injury-history either.

 

So I'm not sure about your idea that the Bills should have known these were brittle players.

 

As for your bust vs injury bust question, a bust is a bust but for some people, the reason why they busted is important too.

 

 

[papazoid]

Papazoid - you there? I'll take any bet you'd like to make. You say that Troup won't make it. I say he's our #2 NT who sees *a lot* of time and you'll be forced to admit you were wrong by the end of the year, if not sooner. You can talk all you want about how you isolated him with binoculars. I isolated him with my HD Sony Bravia and saw a guy doing his job consistently. Look at the 3 and out series from the Lions' goal line for example. Who is that guy who executes a perfect swim move to force the QB to make a hurried throw, falling harmlessly to the turf? And who is the guy who beats a double team and stuffs the RB? Troup, then Troup. He was a factor all night. I counted ONE play where he was taken out of a play in such a way that he'd probably want it back. One. And that'll happen to anybody.

 

Offer stands...I like an easy bet.

 

what i win ?...he has NOT seen alot of playing time because of talent and now injury. his year is over. he is a BUST !!....and in my opinion, will stay a bust.

 

#1- Troup when healthy is horrible.

#2- he is rarely healthy.

#3- Kellen Heard is better !

#4- Troup will finish out his rookie contract and then not be resigned.

#5- so, i guess that leaves us time for him to prove me wrong and you right....good luck.

[Sisyphean Bills]

So I'm not sure about your idea that the Bills should have known these were brittle players.

Correction. These are your words, not mine.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Correction. These are your words, not mine.

Well by all means, please explain what I misunderstood about your reply to PDaDdy.

[bbb]

but his second is looking good !...i really mean it's looking good. Troup had a bad back- anyone had a bad back it's debilatating

 

 

Marcell Dareus - despite playing along no other NFL caliber players since Kyle Williams injury, Dareus has done a good job and is constantly double teamed even in the Jet game.

 

Aaron Williams - this guy looks like a stud of a player

 

Kelvin Sheppard - good tackler, good speed trouble with assignments but still looks like he's going to be a good player

 

Da'Norris Searcy - another hitter who will learn pass coverage, another player and likely starter next year

 

Chris Hairston - already started some games has been hot and cold, has some tools and is not a project. Could develop into a solid lineman

 

Chris White - special teams contributor who knows from there

 

Justin Rogers - limited time but looks like he can be in the mix (and i don't mean like Reggie Corner)

 

that's not a bad draft....anytime you take a DT he's not going to put up stats like a DE or blitzing LB especially if he has another pass rusher to work with...we all want these guys to play like a five year NFL veteran but unless your not realistic it's not going to happen. Over all a good draft so far

 

Yeah, I'll stick with my first assertion and agree with yours, too. Thankfully, it is looking good. The Jets game really showed some things from these guys, esp. Williams, and even Dareus, just for his leadership before the game.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Well by all means, please explain what I misunderstood about your reply to PDaDdy.

Well, the primary purpose of the post was to ask the question if there was a term other than "bust" that was preferable for a player that contributes nothing because of injuries. You seem to suggest that "bust" applies regardless, though I know that many would disagree. I've had discussions in the past about Steve Emtman, for example, not being a bust because his football career was cut short due to injury, not a lack of talent. Just saying...

 

Anyway, the point about injury is that every team has injuries. Every team. It is a part of the game and a well managed team knows this. They may not know exactly which players will go down during a season, but there is plenty of data that indicates that players will go down and which positions have the most susceptibility, etc. The Bills mode of team building is simply to go 0 to 1 players deep at positions. About the same time every year, fans roll out the injury excuse threads and start clamoring for new strength and conditioning coaches. It's like clockwork and very predictable.

 

Merriman is a prime example of bad planning. Because of his history, it was a near certainty that he would go down at some point and he did. Again. The Bills took a risk on him. Fine. I don't have any problem with rolling the dice at times to get better. But the Bills brain trust put together a backup plan that consists of having a defensive tackle play OLB, a guy that can't set the edge to save his life and is absolutely atrocious in space.

 

Now the regurgitated pablum to explain the lack of depth all away is that it takes 3 years (maybe more?) to really do anything and besides they're busy completely gutting the roster, etc. In the first case, there are plenty of counter-examples that it doesn't take 3 years for a new regime to show simple progress, that one doesn't have to go backwards to go forwards. There have been plenty of discussion points about the Bills not using free agency in the modern NFL, not re-signing players past their rookie contracts, and salary dumping veterans as soon as possible. As to the second leg, the Patriots have more than "completely" gutted their roster in the same time frame and yet they continue to be in the hunt for the playoffs and win games. Yes, the Patriots have Tom Brady, but they also have football management such that when their starting C goes on IR for the season, they have someone that can snap the ball to Brady.

 

It is just another fact that every team has roster churn every year. The better teams are able to mesh the players and adapt their systems to put those players in the positions to perform at the utmost of their abilities. The bad teams pound square pegs in round holes, strike out on draft day more often than they lay down successful late round bunts, and crash around in the dark room hoping to get lucky and find a light switch.

 

So, yeah. Were you really expecting the Bills to be injury free across the board all season long?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

So when you wrote this:

Really? Did you have any sort of hunch that Merriman might not last the entire season, for example?

 

While some may argue the term "bust" may not apply to Troup because of injury or his very short career to date, I am curious if there is an accepted term for players that are brittle and never contribute squat that does apply to these situations? Something like "brittle glass baubles" or "damaged goods" perhaps? McCargo was another DT this team drafted high, who had a bad back such that the Colts refused to complete a deal for him as damaged goods; and, he never really did a thing. Drafting a player that can't contribute, whether it is because he sucks or because he's a perpetually injured brittle glass bauble, sets your team back just the same.

… what you meant was this:

 

Well, the primary purpose of the post was to ask the question if there was a term other than "bust" that was preferable for a player that contributes nothing because of injuries. You seem to suggest that "bust" applies regardless, though I know that many would disagree. I've had discussions in the past about Steve Emtman, for example, not being a bust because his football career was cut short due to injury, not a lack of talent. Just saying...

 

Anyway, the point about injury is that every team has injuries. Every team. It is a part of the game and a well managed team knows this. They may not know exactly which players will go down during a season, but there is plenty of data that indicates that players will go down and which positions have the most susceptibility, etc. The Bills mode of team building is simply to go 0 to 1 players deep at positions. About the same time every year, fans roll out the injury excuse threads and start clamoring for new strength and conditioning coaches. It's like clockwork and very predictable.

 

Merriman is a prime example of bad planning. Because of his history, it was a near certainty that he would go down at some point and he did. Again. The Bills took a risk on him. Fine. I don't have any problem with rolling the dice at times to get better. But the Bills brain trust put together a backup plan that consists of having a defensive tackle play OLB, a guy that can't set the edge to save his life and is absolutely atrocious in space.

 

Now the regurgitated pablum to explain the lack of depth all away is that it takes 3 years (maybe more?) to really do anything and besides they're busy completely gutting the roster, etc. In the first case, there are plenty of counter-examples that it doesn't take 3 years for a new regime to show simple progress, that one doesn't have to go backwards to go forwards. There have been plenty of discussion points about the Bills not using free agency in the modern NFL, not re-signing players past their rookie contracts, and salary dumping veterans as soon as possible. As to the second leg, the Patriots have more than "completely" gutted their roster in the same time frame and yet they continue to be in the hunt for the playoffs and win games. Yes, the Patriots have Tom Brady, but they also have football management such that when their starting C goes on IR for the season, they have someone that can snap the ball to Brady.

 

It is just another fact that every team has roster churn every year. The better teams are able to mesh the players and adapt their systems to put those players in the positions to perform at the utmost of their abilities. The bad teams pound square pegs in round holes, strike out on draft day more often than they lay down successful late round bunts, and crash around in the dark room hoping to get lucky and find a light switch.

 

So, yeah. Were you really expecting the Bills to be injury free across the board all season long?

Gotcha.

 

As to your question, no I didn't expect the Bills to be injury free.

 

Why would you ask?

 

 

[JohnC]

Well, the primary purpose of the post was to ask the question if there was a term other than "bust" that was preferable for a player that contributes nothing because of injuries. You seem to suggest that "bust" applies regardless, though I know that many would disagree. I've had discussions in the past about Steve Emtman, for example, not being a bust because his football career was cut short due to injury, not a lack of talent. Just saying...

 

Anyway, the point about injury is that every team has injuries. Every team. It is a part of the game and a well managed team knows this. They may not know exactly which players will go down during a season, but there is plenty of data that indicates that players will go down and which positions have the most susceptibility, etc. The Bills mode of team building is simply to go 0 to 1 players deep at positions. About the same time every year, fans roll out the injury excuse threads and start clamoring for new strength and conditioning coaches. It's like clockwork and very predictable.

 

Merriman is a prime example of bad planning. Because of his history, it was a near certainty that he would go down at some point and he did. Again. The Bills took a risk on him. Fine. I don't have any problem with rolling the dice at times to get better. But the Bills brain trust put together a backup plan that consists of having a defensive tackle play OLB, a guy that can't set the edge to save his life and is absolutely atrocious in space.

 

Now the regurgitated pablum to explain the lack of depth all away is that it takes 3 years (maybe more?) to really do anything and besides they're busy completely gutting the roster, etc. In the first case, there are plenty of counter-examples that it doesn't take 3 years for a new regime to show simple progress, that one doesn't have to go backwards to go forwards. There have been plenty of discussion points about the Bills not using free agency in the modern NFL, not re-signing players past their rookie contracts, and salary dumping veterans as soon as possible. As to the second leg, the Patriots have more than "completely" gutted their roster in the same time frame and yet they continue to be in the hunt for the playoffs and win games. Yes, the Patriots have Tom Brady, but they also have football management such that when their starting C goes on IR for the season, they have someone that can snap the ball to Brady.

 

It is just another fact that every team has roster churn every year. The better teams are able to mesh the players and adapt their systems to put those players in the positions to perform at the utmost of their abilities. The bad teams pound square pegs in round holes, strike out on draft day more often than they lay down successful late round bunts, and crash around in the dark room hoping to get lucky and find a light switch.

 

So, yeah. Were you really expecting the Bills to be injury free across the board all season long?

 

The Bills' business model developed by the Detroit crowd (Ralph, Littman and Oberdorf) does not allow for a credible backup roster system. Hangartner, Langston Walker, Evans, Greer, London Fletcher etc were let go for financial reasons. Does it make the team very vulnerable in a collision sport that will predictably deplete a starting roster? It certainly does. This is a franchise that has a history of letting many players go (not all) due to financial and not football considerations. It has come down to a dog chasing tail process. This looney organization is constantly replacing players and re-filling the same positions instead of adding to the talent base and addressing other needs.

 

The Wilson business model is self-fulling. Historical futility on the field and sterling results on its ledger sheets. It also doesn't help when you have an inept owner who does the major hiring. Until there is a change in ownership the cycle will repeat itself.

Edited December 1, 2011 by JohnC

[Nanker]

Good luck Torell on your surgery.

I hope you get a good outcome and I send my best wishes to you for a full recovery.

[Ozymandius]

Asked why he didn't make the obvious choice, Modrak stated:

 

“Those guys were in a bunch and the beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” said Bills Vice President of College Scouting Tom Modrak. “We liked Troup the best of the bunch, but that doesn’t mean that the other guys weren’t in the mix. It was a good group in that area.”

 

I remember watching that interview online and wanting to punch Modrak in his fat, smug failure face.

[Dawgg]

I remember watching that interview online and wanting to punch Modrak in his fat, smug failure face.

and just take a look at Lamarr Houston. He's killing it for the Raders wreaking havoc on that line! He was the obvious pick at that point if you're going for a defensive lineman.

 

Instead, the Bills choose Troupe.

[CBD]

Da'Norris Searcy - another hitter who will learn pass coverage, another player and likely starter next year

Who is D'Norris Searcy taking out of the lineup next year?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Who is D'Norris Searcy taking out of the lineup next year?

Well, possibly someone and possibly no one.

 

But on a team without enough depth, the Bills look pretty good at safety with Byrd, Wilson, Scott, and Searcy.

 

It's one of their few real solid groups.