The Big Cat Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Perhaps you didn't understand the earlier post correcting you. Jasper was switched to the offensive line… which is where he played in college. The Bills tried him at OT but currently he is practicing at guard. Yeah, Joseph has definitely shown more than Troup. Interestingly he like Troup, played in Conference USA. The 2010 Draft is not looking good right now. I'm hoping (without knowing) that some of that has to do with the now deposed Tom Modrak still being the director of college scouting at the time. I've been hoping for this as well. Given the SEC lovefest the Bills (rightfully) poured into the 2011 draft, there was definitely a slight variation in draft day tone from 2010 to 2011. The optimism in me tells me that 2011 was the first draft free from Modrak's finger prints. If that's the case, between Dareus, Williams and Hairston alone, the draft is already looking better than 2010. Add to it the intrigue of players like Sheppard and S'earcy, and 2011 is FAR superior to 2010, especially considering the 2010 equivalents of Sheppard and S'earcy are Matten and Moats, two guys we took a flyer on that didn't play for major college programs and have so far demonstrated themselves to be situational, at best.
CSBill Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 I've been hoping for this as well. Given the SEC lovefest the Bills (rightfully) poured into the 2011 draft, there was definitely a slight variation in draft day tone from 2010 to 2011. The optimism in me tells me that 2011 was the first draft free from Modrak's finger prints. If that's the case, between Dareus, Williams and Hairston alone, the draft is already looking better than 2010. Add to it the intrigue of players like Sheppard and S'earcy, and 2011 is FAR superior to 2010, especially considering the 2010 equivalents of Sheppard and S'earcy are Matten and Moats, two guys we took a flyer on that didn't play for major college programs and have so far demonstrated themselves to be situational, at best. This is a point I've made elsewhere: We need to stop drafting combine freaks from the low-rent districts of college football; that is, places like Richmond, James Madison, Troy State, South Dakota St., Central Florida, etc., and go after major program people. Yes, there will always be exceptions--in both directions (e.g. Arron Maybin on the negative side, Fred Jackson on the positive ledger, etc.)--but big time school & conference players are generally going to be better investments over the long haul. I'll give exhibit A: David Nelson, non-starter at Florida, but able to adapt pretty quickly to the NFL.
todd Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Don't tell Buddy--he drafted him as DT. He was switched to OT when put on the PS. So, I am aware of Jasper's current position on the offensive side of the ball. I am also aware that you do not have to IR a player and then sign a player of the same to position to the Active Roster. You can put anyone on the Active Roster when you send a player to IR or to waivers. My point in all of this is that Jasper isn't ready, he was a luxury pick at the back end of the 7th round. A guy can dunk and launch a medicine ball and we think he is our saviour. If he was, he'd have been pulled up to the Active Roster. He hasn't been. We have made dozens of moves this season, none of which have involved Jasper being put on the Active Roster because he is not capable of helping this team right now, not on offense, not on defense, not on special teams. He is a project. I'm tired of hearing his name every day. Yeah, lets cut a guy who can play on Sundays for a guy who can't play on Sundays. Good logic. A luxury pick at the end of the 7th round? Is there such a thing? I mean, it is the seventh round. Edited November 30, 2011 by todd
The Big Cat Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 This is a point I've made elsewhere: We need to stop drafting combine freaks from the low-rent districts of college football; that is, places like Richmond, James Madison, Troy State, South Dakota St., Central Florida, etc., and go after major program people. Yes, there will always be exceptions--in both directions (e.g. Arron Maybin on the negative side, Fred Jackson on the positive ledger, etc.)--but big time school & conference players are generally going to be better investments over the long haul. I'll give exhibit A: David Nelson, non-starter at Florida, but able to adapt pretty quickly to the NFL. I think it also lessens the "crap shoot" nature of the draft. Much more likely to hit on a guy who contributed to two national championships than a guy who was a big fish in a little pond. Talk to any big Gator fan, and they'll tell you how important Nelson was to those teams. The name "Mr. Clutch" escaped the lips of a HARD CORE Florida fan I know. I thought...hmmm...funny how things DON'T change...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 I've been hoping for this as well. Given the SEC lovefest the Bills (rightfully) poured into the 2011 draft, there was definitely a slight variation in draft day tone from 2010 to 2011. The optimism in me tells me that 2011 was the first draft free from Modrak's finger prints. If that's the case, between Dareus, Williams and Hairston alone, the draft is already looking better than 2010. Add to it the intrigue of players like Sheppard and S'earcy, and 2011 is FAR superior to 2010, especially considering the 2010 equivalents of Sheppard and S'earcy are Matten and Moats, two guys we took a flyer on that didn't play for major college programs and have so far demonstrated themselves to be situational, at best. I agree there is a HUGE difference between the the 2010 and 2011 draft. Mordaks subsequent firing and the stark contrast must not be a conincidence. 2011 has already been the best draft in a while. The first five picks have all contributed this year and played pretty well as rookies and started numerous games. There is not 1 player from 2010 who started their second year as #1 on the depth chart. Shep, Williams and Hairsten all look like they are firmly entrenched in the starting line up as rookies, Darius is what a first rounder should be. A few more drafts like this one and we can possibly conclude Mordak was in fact the cornerstone of the lost decade
Dawgg Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) It's a textbook case of the Bills' drafting philosophy. Rather than draft the obvious talent, one who has competed against the very best, the Bills reached in choosing a tackle who was considered a 3rd rounder at best and played for a smaller school. Lamarr Houston literally fell to their lap – he was dominant at Texas – and instead the Bills' took the lesser known, less capable talent. Asked why he didn't make the obvious choice, Modrak stated: “Those guys were in a bunch and the beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” said Bills Vice President of College Scouting Tom Modrak. “We liked Troup the best of the bunch, but that doesn’t mean that the other guys weren’t in the mix. It was a good group in that area.” Instead, Lamarr Houston has developed into a great young talent for the resurgent Raiders while Troup languishes on the Bills' sideline. Same story with McCargo, Whitner, and the bevy of wasted picks that have haunted this franchise. Edited December 1, 2011 by Dawgg
eball Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Troup is so horrible he couldn't even overcome a back condition that will now require surgery. What a kitty. Edit: I didn't type kitty. Edited November 30, 2011 by eball
The Big Cat Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 It's a textbook case of the Bills' drafting philosophy. Rather than draft the obvious talent, one who has competed against the very best, the Bills reached in choosing a tackle who was considered a 3rd rounder at best and played for a smaller school. Lamarr Houston literally fell tot heir lap – he was dominant at Texas – and instead the Bills' took the lesser known, less capable talent. Asked why he didn't make the obvious choice, Modrak stated: “Those guys were in a bunch and the beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” said Bills Vice President of College Scouting Tom Modrak. “We liked Troup the best of the bunch, but that doesn’t mean that the other guys weren’t in the mix. It was a good group in that area.” Instead, Lamarr Houston has developed into a great young talent for the resurgent Raiders while Troup languishes on the Bills' sideline. Same story with McCargo, Whitner, and the bevy of wasted picks that have haunted this franchise throughout the Modrak era. I make the subtle correction based on the sidebar conversation that's happening here... I think the new question arising is whether the 2011 philosophy of drafting from big name, big program schools that WON football games throughout our draftees' college careers is more likely to "hit" than whatever philosophy was steering the ship prior to 2011. Personally, I don't think there's a single recipe for success, but if what I just laid out has in fact become the driving philosophy, it seems like the hit to miss ratio (from the Bills standpoint) will sky rocket in the short term, but then rest steadily in our favor moving forward. We might not find any rookie standouts this way, but we'll consistently get SOLID players who know how to win. Think bell curve. Some big hits, some big whiffs, lots of legitimate talent in between.
John from Riverside Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 I am to the point now where I am willing to concede that the 2010 draft was not good for us overall (I hope that these players do develop into at least "reliable backups" Spiller.....I was really expecting more from him this past weekend and have been in his corner.....as I watched him play it became maddening to me to see him get stopped (for the most part) at the slightest contact....unable to keep his balance....bounce off a tackle....and break one. the speed is there.....the willingness to run between the tackles is improving...the pass protection is also improving.....but as he got to his 20ith something carry and still under 50 yards or so I am like...."ok just feed him the ball 20 more times and maybe he gets 100 yards on the day" the jets run defense has not been dom this year Troupe.....when we drafted him I thought I saw a lunch pail work eithic guy who had enough athleticsm to not just be considered a run plugger.....well he isn't even a consistant run plugger and something seems to be missing (even when healthy)....I dont want a DT that chases plays downfield from behind....I want a guy that stops them from getting to that point. Then you have guys like Heard who wasn't even drafted come in and outplay him. Once again....its hard to judge a player when he is injured.....but its not looking good right now. Just watch....Dotson is going to come in and provide a missing interior pass rush to help out Darius......another undrafted guy. Carrington....EASILY my biggest dissapoint from this draft because to me he had big time potential written all over him as a 3-4 defensive end......and he isn't making ANY plays.....I know that DE's in a 3-4 are not sack masters....but they ARE pocket collapsers....and we are not getting ANY PRESSURE at all....NONE..... This years draft looks like it is so much better then 2010......keep drafting the SEC guys Buddy.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 yep he's horrible, guess he needs more core work on the Abwheel to help his back.
Bills Fan in ATL Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 There is no way of telling if Troup is "Horrible" yet or not. Don't you think a bad back that has forced him to IR and him having to have surgery on it can affect the "Push" that he gets. No he has not done anything since we drafted him, but everyone was raving about the great off-season he had and then he broke his hand. The back is a problem he has had since college and now that he is getting it fixed, who knows how good he can be. Just a little premature calling the guy horrible already.
KOKBILLS Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 KOK, Nice post and pretty accurate. Here's a few extra points: There were a small group of posters (the "trench builder school of thought") who wanted the Bills to consider Dan Williams with the #9 pick. So far he's been a pretty big disappointment too, as the 26th pick of that draft. Also, many teams felt that there was an inherent risk in taking a guy like Cody, who regardless, was by far the best nose tackle in the draft. His struggles keeping his weight down and the marginal weight and conditioning that he showed at the Senior Bowl and the Combine scared some teams off. There's a picture of Cody on my profile page… he was a tub or lard BUT a dominating football player in spite of that. Wish we would have drafted him. Agreed... No question Cody was boom or bust...And he had quite a big bust...But I digress... Thing is here we are again...A Prospect we pass on turns around and becomes a player for the Ravens...In the case of Cody, reports have him down to 335!!! Now here's a Kid we obviously passed on because of his off-field red-flags...Which is understandable...I say we passed on him for that reason because I'm assuming The Bills agreed with everyone else under the sun that felt like IF Cody dedicated himself and got in better shape he was not only the best NT in the 2010 Draft, he had the potential to be the best NT in the NFL...But we do so as an Organization because we have zero faith in our ability to get through to a Kid like Cody...And you know what? My guess is Cody would have come to Buffalo and gotten fatter, because that's just the way things go around OBD...
Mr. WEO Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 I've been hoping for this as well. Given the SEC lovefest the Bills (rightfully) poured into the 2011 draft, there was definitely a slight variation in draft day tone from 2010 to 2011. The optimism in me tells me that 2011 was the first draft free from Modrak's finger prints. If that's the case, between Dareus, Williams and Hairston alone, the draft is already looking better than 2010. Add to it the intrigue of players like Sheppard and S'earcy, and 2011 is FAR superior to 2010, especially considering the 2010 equivalents of Sheppard and S'earcy are Matten and Moats, two guys we took a flyer on that didn't play for major college programs and have so far demonstrated themselves to be situational, at best. Searcy is getting baked out there. I think Moats could have more impact. He was switched to OT when put on the PS. Doen't matter what they call a guy on the 8 man PS. He was clearly drafted as D-limeman.
Ramius Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Troup thus far has been a disappointment, but it would be foolish to toss him to the scrap heap at this point. DT typically takes a bit for collegiate players to learn, and often times it can take those players a few years to fully grasp their position. We're talking about a guy who played some as a rookie and then had his second year washed out by injury. He may never develop, but it would be the height of stupidity to release him, especially when there isn't currently a realistic upgrade on the roster. At the very least, let him get healthy, bring in some competition, and make him fight for a job in camp next year.
Astrobot Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Wait until he gets the cast off. Reportedly it should come off before the opener. "Cast off" is exactly what I think of. Troup is an we'll be filling in the draft with this guy, Worthy, or Ta'Amu: Edited November 30, 2011 by Astrobot
Buffaloed in Pa Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 What a joke this is. The kid has to have surgery on his back. Did any of you white collar workers ever have a bad back ? I mean a back that needed surgery ,but you still work with it physically . You can`t do the same work or lift or bend the same. The kid was trying to do his job ,but couldn`t.He is probably done and I feel for the kid. But I`d say he was trying ,but was limited bigtime.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) To touch on a few comments upthread. Troup is signed through the end of 2013. His base salaries are low and his signing bonus is guaranteed. Like Merriman, there's no point in even thinking about jettisoning him because he's under contract for next year. Let's not hate on a player who has always been considered a high-character guy… a guy who lives clean, tries hard, and does his best. If his career fails due to a bad back, it's just a damn shame… nothing more, nothing less. Should the Bills have drafted someone else? Perhaps… and that's on them. Does it look like on balance that the 2010 draft was not/will not be a good one? Yes it definitely looks that way. Edited November 30, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan
Buffaloed in Pa Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 To touch on a few comments upthread. Troup is signed through the end of 2013. His base salaries are low and his signing bonus is guaranteed. Like Merriman, there's no point in even thinking about jettisoning him because he's under contract for next year. Let's not hate on a player who has always been considered a high-character guy… a guy who lives clean, tries hard, and does his best. If his career fails due to a bad back, it's just a damn shame… nothing more, nothing less. Should the Bills have drafted someone else? Perhaps… and that's on them. Does it look like on balance that the 2010 draft was not/will not be a good one? Yes it definitely looks that way. Dead-On.
Superman12975 Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Troup to IR is not surprising. He was another pic of Nix. Have to learn to set the expectation low so that you won't be dissapointed. Spiller is a bust. Troup is a bust. Hiring of Edwards as OC is a bust. Even if Spiller has one break out game, so what? He has still proven he cannot read defenses and cannot run between the tackles. Poor man Reggie Bush/untility player. Troup was another reach. Let's see what Nix does in his 3rd year.
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