Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 We're not ignoring it, just disputing your insinuation that Fitzpatrick's our problem. Our problem was our defense and a non effective running game. The Bills had 6 rushing TDs the entire 2010 season. That's pitiful. They were one of the worst at getting turnovers, which means shortened fields, which means less potentially intercepted passes for Fitzpatrick and a much greater chance for TDs. The ugly? Please, he was no wear near being ugly last season. He was one of the few bright spots on the team dude. Yes, he needs to take care of the ball, but not at the expense of not taking chances of going into a turtle shell a la Trent Edwards. The last thing I want right now is Fitzpatrick worrying about throwing interceptions. Stop with this nonsense. Nonsense? Net-17, worse in the league,its a fact, What,are you on the no nonsense comity or something...
yungmack Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Your analysis is backwards. BTW, that's not ugly, they're average numbers for a starting QB who has a set of balls. Drew Brees has thrown 132 INTs in 137 games started and has had 66 fumbles in that span. The all time great and accurate Peyton Manning has had 198 INTs in 208 starts. Jim Kelly had 175 INTs in 160 games starts. You must have been a big fan of Jauron if Fitzpatrick's INTs and Fumbles are what you're worried about. What plagued the Bills turnover numbers last year was the defense's inability to get INTs and Fumbles, it was not Fitzpatrick. If you want a guy who won't turn the ball over then go watch Trent Edwards. No guts no glory...and that's keeping it real. That's on the money.
Dr. K Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Nonsense? Net-17, worse in the league,its a fact, What,are you on the no nonsense comity or something... This thread says more about you than it does about Fitzpatrick. Yes, he should do better on interceptions, but you've vastly undercut the credibility of your opinions by the one-sided nature of your postings here. You are not making a rational argument; you have an axe and you are grinding it.
billsfan1959 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Maybe If you read the thread you would see my acknowledgment of the defense/secondary taking part in the net-17 TD to INT ratio is an important part of the equation that some of you choose to ignore... Terry Bradshaw (1), Jim Kelly (1.35), Troy Aikman (1.17), and John Elway (1.32), just to name a few, all had career TD to Interception ratios that were worse than what Fitz posted last year (1.53). Pretty "ugly" stuff for a stat that is so important. Perhaps we should have them removed from the Hall of Fame…
Billsrhody Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Fitz is a "gunslinger" in the sense that he takes risks and tries to force the ball into tight gaps. Why not compare him to the greatest gunslinger of all time, Brett Favre? For his career, Favre had a TD/INT ratio of 1.51. Last season, Fitzpatrick's was 1.53. I'm not saying he's anywhere near as talented as Favre but last season he played on par with Favre's ratio and therefor I dont think you can call Fitz's season even disappointing. If Fitz puts up similar numbers next year and the defense can turn their game around, this team will win double the games that they won last year.
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 This thread says more about you than it does about Fitzpatrick. Yes, he should do better on interceptions, but you've vastly undercut the credibility of your opinions by the one-sided nature of your postings here. You are not making a rational argument; you have an axe and you are grinding it. You guys trying to turn the thread into something personal are the ones with an axe to grind so lay off how about it, I was born in Buffalo and love my Buffalo Bills so don't try to insinuate my hearts not in the right place
Dorkington Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Average QB turnovers, and below average defensive takeaways = Bad rating in total turnover/takeaways. Revelation of the century.
Erik Flowers Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 This thread says more about you than it does about Fitzpatrick. Yes, he should do better on interceptions, but you've vastly undercut the credibility of your opinions by the one-sided nature of your postings here. You are not making a rational argument; you have an axe and you are grinding it. As does everyone who is defending the honor of their boy Fitz. If you don't want to hear the opinions of people who don't agree with you, what are you doing on a message board? Telling someone who criticizes the team they love that he should root for another team is asinine, but par for the course.
tennesseeboy Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 hmmm..we aren't the worst team in the NFL but I guess we might be, by present standards in the bottom five. We can remedy that by winning a few games out of the box. New defensive line and linebackers may be very impressive, and we have a good number of good defensive backs. The defense could be quite good. The offense has a good running back, an untested (except for Johnson) group of receivers, but a (so far) very bad offensive line. Fitz is good and a lot of the criticism of him can go to the pass protection. Gailey seems to build his offense around bad pass protection, when the real remedy is to get some pass protection. Bottom line...we could finish somewhere between 7 and 9 wins. I'll be more confident if we go into the bye 3-3 or better.
Erik Flowers Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Average QB turnovers, and below average defensive takeaways = Bad rating in total turnover/takeaways. Revelation of the century. The bigger problem is his 1:1:1 games played to touchdown to interception ratio. Sure, the defense controls half the turnover ratio, but those the picks he throws mean a lot more when they aren't balanced out by touchdowns.
Coach Tuesday Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I've said this before but no one seems to find it interesting. Fitzpatrick was basically a rookie as a starting QB last year. He had been a spot starter but primarily a backup before last season. There is reason to think he has not yet hit his ceiling. It's the same thing with his pre-snap reads, which some posters on this Board complain about. There is reason to think he'll improve in all facets.
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 I've said this before but no one seems to find it interesting. Fitzpatrick was basically a rookie as a starting QB last year. He had been a spot starter but primarily a backup before last season. There is reason to think he has not yet hit his ceiling. It's the same thing with his pre-snap reads, which some posters on this Board complain about. There is reason to think he'll improve in all facets. here's an argument I can appreciate
1billsfan Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 The bigger problem is his 1:1:1 games played to touchdown to interception ratio. Sure, the defense controls half the turnover ratio, but those the picks he throws mean a lot more when they aren't balanced out by touchdowns. They were balanced out by touchdowns. The ratio is a little bit on the high side but the ration was fine, average...comprende? Also, what part of Fitzpatrick never getting a shortened field don't you guys get? QBs with good defenses help out their starting QBs TD to INT immensely. BTW, you want to talk about balance, out of 401 rushes the Bills scored only 6 TDs! Seriously, look it up. This thread is a joke.
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Average QB turnovers, and below average defensive takeaways = Bad rating in total turnover/takeaways. Revelation of the century. Above average QB turnovers, and below average defensive takeaways, = the worse give away/take away in the NFL Revelation of the Millennium Edited August 31, 2011 by Fig Newton
Erik Flowers Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 They were balanced out by touchdowns. The ratio is a little bit on the high side but the ration was fine, average...comprende? Also, what part of Fitzpatrick never getting a shortened field don't you guys get? QBs with good defenses help out their starting QBs TD to INT immensely. BTW, you want to talk about balance, out of 401 rushes the Bills scored only 6 TDs! Seriously, look it up. This thread is a joke. You drawing the conclusion you want from one statistic is a joke, comprende? So its the defense's fault that Fitz has the statistics of a crappy QB? Is anything his fault? If you want to do a real statistical analysis of Fitz and his stats versus other QB's in the league, read this article. Yes, its from bleacher report, but its is a great article that provides an objective look at numbers that matter. You will notice that there are no excuses made for average drive start or crappy lines or defenses who didn't take the ball away, or bad coaches that held him back or draft position or a mother who didn't breast feed him enough. Its a cold, hard look at statistics over a career - not a cherry picked season or part of a season. Plug Fitz's numbers in and see where he comes out.
billsfan1959 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 You drawing the conclusion you want from one statistic is a joke, comprende? So its the defense's fault that Fitz has the statistics of a crappy QB? Is anything his fault? If you want to do a real statistical analysis of Fitz and his stats versus other QB's in the league, read this article. Yes, its from bleacher report, but its is a great article that provides an objective look at numbers that matter. You will notice that there are no excuses made for average drive start or crappy lines or defenses who didn't take the ball away, or bad coaches that held him back or draft position or a mother who didn't breast feed him enough. Its a cold, hard look at statistics over a career - not a cherry picked season or part of a season. Plug Fitz's numbers in and see where he comes out. With all due respect, the OP started this thread talking about the +/- margins of NFL teams in 2010. He then stated the Buffalo Bills had the worst margin. He then supplied Ryan Fitzpatrick's career numbers, which, as far as I can tell, have no relevance to the 2010 turnover margin. He then supplied only the number of interceptions and fumbles Fitzpatrick had in 2010 - under the heading of "ugly." He mentioned nothing else. So the rational, logical flow of the post was that the Buffalo Bills had the worst turnover margin in 2010 and the reason was Fitzpatrick. I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion. But as I told all of my children as they were growing up: You have the right to believe whatever you want. However, if you are going to express your opinion, be able to articulate a legitimate foundation for why you believe what you believe. Since it is logical to conclude from the OP's post that he blamed Fitzpatrick for the Buffalo Bills' bad turnover margin in 2010 - then we should be able to counter that argument with Fitzpatrick's statistics from 2010. As such, his career statistics are irrelevant. The fact is that Fitzpatrick passed for 3000 yards, threw 23 touchdowns, threw 15 interceptions, had a TD/Int ratio of 1.53, and fumbled 8 times. Those numbers are average numbers for a QB in any season (and compare favorably to the career average numbers of many of the QBs mentioned in the article you cited). The fact that he did it after being thrown in as the starter behind an offensive line that kept him running for his life and constantly in 2nd or 3rd and long (and many other factors)certainly is relevant - nothing happens in a vacuum. And even more relevant to the argument by the OP is the fact that the defense was horrendous in forcing turnovers. You will not find one post I have ever written where I championed Fitzpatrick in any way. However, he did a decent job on a bad team last year. His performance last year had far less to do with our turnover margin than many other factors - and his career stats have no relevance to the 2010 turnover margin at all.
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) With all due respect, the OP started this thread talking about the +/- margins of NFL teams in 2010. He then stated the Buffalo Bills had the worst margin. He then supplied Ryan Fitzpatrick's career numbers, which, as far as I can tell, have no relevance to the 2010 turnover margin. He then supplied only the number of interceptions and fumbles Fitzpatrick had in 2010 - under the heading of "ugly." He mentioned nothing else. So the rational, logical flow of the post was that the Buffalo Bills had the worst turnover margin in 2010 and the reason was Fitzpatrick. I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion. But as I told all of my children as they were growing up: You have the right to believe whatever you want. However, if you are going to express your opinion, be able to articulate a legitimate foundation for why you believe what you believe. Since it is logical to conclude from the OP's post that he blamed Fitzpatrick for the Buffalo Bills' bad turnover margin in 2010 - then we should be able to counter that argument with Fitzpatrick's statistics from 2010. As such, his career statistics are irrelevant. The fact is that Fitzpatrick passed for 3000 yards, threw 23 touchdowns, threw 15 interceptions, had a TD/Int ratio of 1.53, and fumbled 8 times. Those numbers are average numbers for a QB in any season (and compare favorably to the career average numbers of many of the QBs mentioned in the article you cited). The fact that he did it after being thrown in as the starter behind an offensive line that kept him running for his life and constantly in 2nd or 3rd and long (and many other factors)certainly is relevant - nothing happens in a vacuum. And even more relevant to the argument by the OP is the fact that the defense was horrendous in forcing turnovers. You will not find one post I have ever written where I championed Fitzpatrick in any way. However, he did a decent job on a bad team last year. His performance last year had far less to do with our turnover margin than many other factors - and his career stats have no relevance to the 2010 turnover margin at all. Good lord man, who in your opinion has the single most effect on the give away/take away if not the QB. Fitz threw 15 INT's and fumbled the football 8 times(5 lost) in 13 games which I can guarantee you was the biggest contributing factor in the Bills league low net-17, So twist it around all you want, or ignore the facts, but it is what it is... Edited August 31, 2011 by Fig Newton
Erik Flowers Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 With all due respect, the OP started this thread talking about the +/- margins of NFL teams in 2010. He then stated the Buffalo Bills had the worst margin. He then supplied Ryan Fitzpatrick's career numbers, which, as far as I can tell, have no relevance to the 2010 turnover margin. He then supplied only the number of interceptions and fumbles Fitzpatrick had in 2010 - under the heading of "ugly." He mentioned nothing else. So the rational, logical flow of the post was that the Buffalo Bills had the worst turnover margin in 2010 and the reason was Fitzpatrick. I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion. But as I told all of my children as they were growing up: You have the right to believe whatever you want. However, if you are going to express your opinion, be able to articulate a legitimate foundation for why you believe what you believe. Since it is logical to conclude from the OP's post that he blamed Fitzpatrick for the Buffalo Bills' bad turnover margin in 2010 - then we should be able to counter that argument with Fitzpatrick's statistics from 2010. As such, his career statistics are irrelevant. The fact is that Fitzpatrick passed for 3000 yards, threw 23 touchdowns, threw 15 interceptions, had a TD/Int ratio of 1.53, and fumbled 8 times. Those numbers are average numbers for a QB in any season (and compare favorably to the career average numbers of many of the QBs mentioned in the article you cited). The fact that he did it after being thrown in as the starter behind an offensive line that kept him running for his life and constantly in 2nd or 3rd and long (and many other factors)certainly is relevant - nothing happens in a vacuum. And even more relevant to the argument by the OP is the fact that the defense was horrendous in forcing turnovers. You will not find one post I have ever written where I championed Fitzpatrick in any way. However, he did a decent job on a bad team last year. His performance last year had far less to do with our turnover margin than many other factors - and his career stats have no relevance to the 2010 turnover margin at all. How dare you use logic, reason, good judgment and common sense in a post on this board? You, sir, should be banned. Yes, the arguments morphed faster than the wonder twins on a staurday morning cartoon. What I took issue with was blaming the defense for Fitz not playing better and cherry picking a career year (not even a complete year) for fitz and comparing it again career statistics for other players. Apples and oranges. Cheers to you for presenting a logical argument. It wasn't my intent to argue to OP's original point, which does have some holes in it.
billsfan1959 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 How dare you use logic, reason, good judgment and common sense in a post on this board? You, sir, should be banned. Yes, the arguments morphed faster than the wonder twins on a staurday morning cartoon. What I took issue with was blaming the defense for Fitz not playing better and cherry picking a career year (not even a complete year) for fitz and comparing it again career statistics for other players. Apples and oranges. Cheers to you for presenting a logical argument. It wasn't my intent to argue to OP's original point, which does have some holes in it. Point taken
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 How dare you use logic, reason, good judgment and common sense in a post on this board? You, sir, should be banned. Yes, the arguments morphed faster than the wonder twins on a staurday morning cartoon. What I took issue with was blaming the defense for Fitz not playing better and cherry picking a career year (not even a complete year) for fitz and comparing it again career statistics for other players. Apples and oranges. Cheers to you for presenting a logical argument. It wasn't my intent to argue to OP's original point, which does have some holes in it. Ignoring Fitz's 20 turnovers in 13 games seems logical on a thread about give away/ take away, Wheres the logic in that?
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