Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) The Good The top 4 teams in the AFC/ top 4 teams in the NFC/ give away/ take away (2010) AFC Patriots +28 Steelers +17 Chiefs +9 Jets +9 NFC Falcons +14 Packers +10 Champions Eagles +9 Buc's +9 The Bad On the other end of the spectrum/ Buffalo Bills /worse team in the NFL/ net - 17 The Ugly Fitzpatrick in a career 41 games played has thrown 42 INT's and fumbled the football 25 times. In 13 games during the 2010 season Fitzpatrick threw 15 INT's and had 8 fumbles. Edited August 31, 2011 by Fig Newton
The Senator Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Seems to me that doesn't give much credit to a Bills team that's goin'... 19 and 0 baby!!!!!
1billsfan Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) The Ugly Fitzpatrick in a career 41 games played has thrown 42 INT's and fumbled the football 25 times. In 13 games during the 2010 season Fitzpatrick threw 15 INT's and had 8 fumbles. Your analysis is backwards. BTW, that's not ugly, they're average numbers for a starting QB who has a set of balls. Drew Brees has thrown 132 INTs in 137 games started and has had 66 fumbles in that span. The all time great and accurate Peyton Manning has had 198 INTs in 208 starts. Jim Kelly had 175 INTs in 160 games starts. You must have been a big fan of Jauron if Fitzpatrick's INTs and Fumbles are what you're worried about. What plagued the Bills turnover numbers last year was the defense's inability to get INTs and Fumbles, it was not Fitzpatrick. If you want a guy who won't turn the ball over then go watch Trent Edwards. No guts no glory...and that's keeping it real. Edited August 31, 2011 by 1billsfan
Chandler#81 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I've been waiting for a thread about turnovers/take aways to bring this important aspect to life. We were terrible at TO's/TA's last year and there is a direct correlation between these stats and wins/loses. Would we have won 6 games 2 seasons ago without Byrd's INT's. No. Would we have won a couple close games we lost last year with 1 more take away? Yes. This aspect is the single biggest area a team can dramatically improve on from one season to the next. Da Bear's made it to the Super Bowl one season based on this and a helluva return game. Preach turnovers. Practice turnovers. They're difference makers in every game. We'll be better against the run this year. Impossible to be worse. Our LB's & DB's will, therefore, be tested more than last year. Therein creates the opportunities.
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Your analysis is backwards. BTW, that's not ugly, they're average numbers for a starting QB who has a set of balls. Drew Brees has thrown 132 INTs in 137 games started and has had 66 fumbles in that span. The all time great and accurate Peyton Manning has had 198 INTs in 208 starts. Jim Kelly had 175 INTs in 160 games starts. You must have been a big fan of Jauron if Fitzpatrick's INTs and Fumbles are what you're worried about. What plagued the Bills turnover numbers last year was the defense's inability to get INTs and Fumbles, it was not Fitzpatrick. If you want a guy who won't turn the ball over then go watch Trent Edwards. No guts no glory...and that's keeping it real. The difference in the other QB's you quoted are the TD"s to INT's ratio and games won which means not turning the football over at crucial times of a football game. I just showed you a direct correlation between winning football games/Championships and winning the give away take away battle. Fitz gives you the turnovers without the TD's needed to over come them. Note: Fitz has zero control over how poorly our defense/secondary played last season so they also deserve some credit for the net -17 I've been waiting for a thread about turnovers/take aways to bring this important aspect to life. We were terrible at TO's/TA's last year and there is a direct correlation between these stats and wins/loses. Would we have won 6 games 2 seasons ago without Byrd's INT's. No. Would we have won a couple close games we lost last year with 1 more take away? Yes. This aspect is the single biggest area a team can dramatically improve on from one season to the next. Da Bear's made it to the Super Bowl one season based on this and a helluva return game. Preach turnovers. Practice turnovers. They're difference makers in every game. We'll be better against the run this year. Impossible to be worse. Our LB's & DB's will, therefore, be tested more than last year. Therein creates the opportunities. and Protect the Football... Edited August 31, 2011 by Fig Newton
Armchair GM Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Your analysis is backwards. BTW, that's not ugly, they're average numbers for a starting QB who has a set of balls. Drew Brees has thrown 132 INTs in 137 games started and has had 66 fumbles in that span. The all time great and accurate Peyton Manning has had 198 INTs in 208 starts. Jim Kelly had 175 INTs in 160 games starts. You must have been a big fan of Jauron if Fitzpatrick's INTs and Fumbles are what you're worried about. What plagued the Bills turnover numbers last year was the defense's inability to get INTs and Fumbles, it was not Fitzpatrick. If you want a guy who won't turn the ball over then go watch Trent Edwards. No guts no glory...and that's keeping it real. WORD!
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 Your analysis is backwards. BTW, that's not ugly, they're average numbers for a starting QB who has a set of balls. Drew Brees has thrown 132 INTs in 137 games started and has had 66 fumbles in that span. The all time great and accurate Peyton Manning has had 198 INTs in 208 starts. Jim Kelly had 175 INTs in 160 games starts. You must have been a big fan of Jauron if Fitzpatrick's INTs and Fumbles are what you're worried about. What plagued the Bills turnover numbers last year was the defense's inability to get INTs and Fumbles, it was not Fitzpatrick. If you want a guy who won't turn the ball over then go watch Trent Edwards. No guts no glory...and that's keeping it real. WORD! In 138 Game starts Drew Brees scored 235 TD's In 160 Game starts jim Kelly scored 237 TD's WORD!
BiggieScooby Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Ryan Fitz is not responsible for his crap line, when he took over for Edwards all of sudden the oline got much better. I believe Fitz became an adequate starter last year in the NFL. Given the fact that he hover's around the 16th best QB in the NFL that would mean he's not elite, or poor. He should have a good shot at getting another 20 tds and 15 ints. All quarterbacks fumble, Tom Brady has been sacked 244 times fumbled 72 and lost 32. Ryan Fitzpatrick has been sacked 92 times fumbled 25 times and lost 13. If Fitz can mitigate the sacks, his fumbles should come down, and if does that he'll probably throw fewer picks.
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Ryan Fitz is not responsible for his crap line, when he took over for Edwards all of sudden the oline got much better. I believe Fitz became an adequate starter last year in the NFL. Given the fact that he hover's around the 16th best QB in the NFL that would mean he's not elite, or poor. He should have a good shot at getting another 20 tds and 15 ints. All quarterbacks fumble, Tom Brady has been sacked 244 times fumbled 72 and lost 32. Ryan Fitzpatrick has been sacked 92 times fumbled 25 times and lost 13. If Fitz can mitigate the sacks, his fumbles should come down, and if does that he'll probably throw fewer picks. You want to talk about elite, Tom Brady passed for 3,900 yards, 36 TD's and 4 INT's (2010) Edited August 31, 2011 by Fig Newton
Chimp Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 You want to talk about elite, Tom Brady passed for 3,900 yards, 36 TD's and 4 INT's (2010) Fig, a direct correlation between TO/TA's and winning would mean that the patriots won the championship last year. They did have the best ratio...
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Fig, a direct correlation between TO/TA's and winning would mean that the patriots won the championship last year. They did have the best ratio... You did happen to notice all the top teams in give away take away department were playoff/ Championship caliber I would assume, or how about the Bills being worse in the NFL and drafting 3rd overall, Edited August 31, 2011 by Fig Newton
BobChalmers Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) You did happen to notice all the top teams in give away take away department were playoff/ Championship caliber I would assume, or how about the Bills being worse in the NFL and drafting 3rd overall, And you keep ignoring the TAKEAWAY component of that stat. Takeaways are precisely HALF of that statistic, btw. ALSO - a really large proportion of INT's are thrown by QB's under duress - typically playing from behind. Teams who are behind in the score during the game also tend to lose the game. In other words, the fact that QB's throw more INT's on losing teams, while implying a correlation, does not imply the direction of the causality. Edited August 31, 2011 by BobChalmers
prissythecat Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 You did happen to notice all the top teams in give away take away department were playoff/ Championship caliber I would assume, or how about the Bills being worse in the NFL and drafting 3rd overall, So considering how many Bills bashing posts you've made in a relatively short time frame, would it make sense for you to perhaps start cheering for another team like the Pats?
billsfan1959 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) You want to talk about elite, Tom Brady passed for 3,900 yards, 36 TD's and 4 INT's (2010) You're right. Tom Brady did have an elite year in 2010. He also had an elite year in 2007. But those kinds of years are rare for any quarterback, even the "elite" quarterbacks like Brady, Manning, etc. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not an elite quarterback; however, your analysis is really pretty simplistic and his "ugly" stats for 2010 are actually average stats for a quarterback: 23 touchdowns, 15 interceptions, a touchdown/interception ratio of 1.53, an attempts/interception ratio of 30, and 8 fumbles. For the years 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2009, Tom Brady averaged 25 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, a touchdown/interception ratio of 1.9, an attempts/interception ratio of 40, and 9 fumbles. Fairly similar and pretty ugly by your standards - yet, he somehow managed to win some super bowls; which he didn't win in either of his two elite years. Is Fitzpatrick in the same category as Tom Brady? Absolutely not. Just sayin' having winning seasons is a lot more complicated than a stat line - and your singling out of Fitzpatrick for this team's woes is a little misguided. Edited August 31, 2011 by billsfan1959
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) So considering how many Bills bashing posts you've made in a relatively short time frame, would it make sense for you to perhaps start cheering for another team like the Pats? By posting the obvious,and starting a relevant discussion on turnovers, seriously? I'm not going to sugar coat things so you can feel better, Edited August 31, 2011 by Fig Newton
Thoner7 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) The Ugly Fitzpatrick in a career 41 games played has thrown 42 INT's and fumbled the football 25 times. In 13 games during the 2010 season Fitzpatrick threw 15 INT's and had 8 fumbles. Thats Fitz's achilles heal, and also the main reason people still talk about drafting a new QB. What the stats dont tell you is how untimely he throws his picks too (think Balt and KC). That makes them that much more painful. Hoping he gets better. As with every QB in the history of the forward pass, a better OL would cut down on these turnovers. However sometimes balls just seem to get away from him, and hit the other teams DB square in the chest. Edited August 31, 2011 by Thoner7
1billsfan Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 By stating the obvious stat wise, and starting a relevant discussion on turnovers, seriously? I'm not going to sugar coat things so you can fell better, You did neither dude. Your whole post ignores the defensive responsibility for takeaways which is half the stat. Not to mention that Fitzpatrick is around the average in turnovers among starting QBs in the NFL since the beginning of time. You should apologize for such a foolish and misleading thread.
Donald Duck Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) You did neither dude. Your whole post ignores the defensive responsibility for takeaways which is half the stat. Not to mention that Fitzpatrick is around the average in turnovers among starting QBs in the NFL since the beginning of time. You should apologize for such a foolish and misleading thread. Maybe If you read the thread you would see my acknowledgment of the defense/secondary taking part in the net-17 TD to INT ratio is an important part of the equation that some of you choose to ignore... Edited August 31, 2011 by Fig Newton
1billsfan Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Maybe If you read the thread you would see my acknowledgment of the defense/secondary taking part in the net-17 TD to INT ratio is an important part of the equation that some of you choose to ignore... We're not ignoring it, just disputing your insinuation that Fitzpatrick's our problem. Our problem was our defense and a non effective running game. The Bills had 6 rushing TDs the entire 2010 season. That's pitiful. They were one of the worst at getting turnovers, which means shortened fields, which means less potentially intercepted passes for Fitzpatrick and a much greater chance for TDs. The ugly? Please, he was no wear near being ugly last season. He was one of the few bright spots on the team dude. Yes, he needs to take care of the ball, but not at the expense of not taking chances of going into a turtle shell a la Trent Edwards. The last thing I want right now is Fitzpatrick worrying about throwing interceptions. Stop with this nonsense. Edited August 31, 2011 by 1billsfan
cvanvol Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Maybe If you read the thread you would see my acknowledgment of the defense/secondary taking part in the net-17 TD to INT ratio is an important part of the equation that some of you choose to ignore... You brought up last year though and his TD to INT ratio wasnt bad at all and if he can do that this year or improve by just 2 or three more touchdowns he would be in the top ten most likely
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