John Cocktosten Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 You said the "Bills have run the 4-3 the majority of the preseason". That is incorrect. We've been in the 3-4 and Nickel (with 4 man front) more than we have the 4-3. Just because the OLB has his hand on the ground (as a lot do in the 3-4) does not make it a 4-3. You don' know the difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 over/under. I just watched the first 5-6 plays and they were in a 3-4 once. The reason why I know that is because Kyle Williams was shading the center or the guard. He lined up at zero once. When the TE traded, Batten moved from his "over/under" position to stack. Carrington didn't move to adjust. That means they are in a 4-3. I'm not talking about nickel/dime where a OLB kicks down to end on obvious passing downs. A 3-4 OLB NEVER PUTS HIS HAND DOWN IN A BASE DEFENSE BECAUSE IT TIPS THE OFFENSE OFF THAT HE'S COMING amogst other reasons. Football 101 right there. So again, you're wrong.
bills44 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 this guys sucks about as hard as Sullivan and Gleason do.
DefenseWins Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 nix and gailey isn't "everyone". Nix and Gailey are just the two guys who took Jauron's mediocre team and turned it into a very bad team. you think taking a 7 win team and in two years turning it into a 6 win team is a good resume. I think taking a 7 win team and in two years increasing it to a 9 win team is a reasonable expectation. Look at Tampa, the Jets and others who had new coaches and turned it around (or at least didn't do worse for three years running) were able to do it. Drafting wisely, keeping star players, using free agency...this is the way its done. Free Agency? You mean like Cornell Green? But gee, Free Agency costs money....
BillnutinHouston Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 As I read this attack on Buddy's building of the 'new Bills' I couldn't help but be astonished by the choice of words of these "general managers, scouts, and other front office personnel' because they read like the words of a distraught teenage boy who was guzzling down some beer to get bold enough to post this insight. I thought the exact same thing. Didn't sound like the diction of someone who himself is capable of building anything but a Madden roster.
DrDawkinstein Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) You don' know the difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 over/under. I just watched the first 5-6 plays and they were in a 3-4 once. The reason why I know that is because Kyle Williams was shading the center or the guard. He lined up at zero once. When the TE traded, Batten moved from his "over/under" position to stack. Carrington didn't move to adjust. That means they are in a 4-3. I'm not talking about nickel/dime where a OLB kicks down to end on obvious passing downs. A 3-4 OLB NEVER PUTS HIS HAND DOWN IN A BASE DEFENSE BECAUSE IT TIPS THE OFFENSE OFF THAT HE'S COMING amogst other reasons. Football 101 right there. So again, you're wrong. I'll give you that they played some 4-3 in the beginning of the Jags game when Johnson was in at DE. BUT, I disagree with your statement that a 3-4 OLB "never" puts his hand down. That is incorrect. Plenty of them do. Normally, if a 3-4 OLB is dropping in coverage, it's just to drop back into a zone and clog a passing lane. For the few times they do this, it is quite possible to come out of a stance and drop. We've already seen it this year from our own OLBs and others such as Mario Williams (first to come to mind). Edited August 29, 2011 by DrDareustein
You herd it hear last Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Jimmy Spags! jimmy can't spell that well...
eme123 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Free Agency? You mean like Cornell Green? But gee, Free Agency costs money.... Who was a better FA offensive lineman available this year than a Cornell Green type player? Mckinnie? The Bills could have addressed the o-line this year in free agency with about 5 other Cornell Greens. OR We could let the young average o-line we had last year duke it out w/ each other for improvement. Free Agents are other teams garbage!
BuffOrange Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 When people require anonymity to voice their opinion, I stop listening, for all the obvious reasons. Yes because Bill Belichick openly talking about what a fabulous football team we have here in pressers twice/year is so much more candid and interesting.
Meathead Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 i wish this site had demerits or groans or minuses cuz i would use them for amstel not providing a link. very rude message board behavior http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/08/28/insider-nix-hasnt-addressed-bills-greatest-needs and if youre gonna tell me you quoted everything relevant, it doesnt matter. if theres no link it didnt happen. and if for some reason you cant provide a link you should explain that total crap commentary btw. how someone can get so many things wrong in one paragraph is amazing. he couldnt suck more at this if he tried
Doc Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 You don' know the difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 over/under. I just watched the first 5-6 plays and they were in a 3-4 once. The reason why I know that is because Kyle Williams was shading the center or the guard. He lined up at zero once. When the TE traded, Batten moved from his "over/under" position to stack. Carrington didn't move to adjust. That means they are in a 4-3. I'm not talking about nickel/dime where a OLB kicks down to end on obvious passing downs. A 3-4 OLB NEVER PUTS HIS HAND DOWN IN A BASE DEFENSE BECAUSE IT TIPS THE OFFENSE OFF THAT HE'S COMING amogst other reasons. Football 101 right there. So again, you're wrong. On which down were they in a 3-4? Free Agency? You mean like Cornell Green? But gee, Free Agency costs money.... Been in a coma the last month or so?
John Cocktosten Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 I'll give you that they played some 4-3 in the beginning of the Jags game when Johnson was in at DE. BUT, I disagree with your statement that a 3-4 OLB "never" puts his hand down. That is incorrect. Plenty of them do. Normally, if a 3-4 OLB is dropping in coverage, it's just to drop back into a zone and clog a passing lane. For the few times they do this, it is quite possible to come out of a stance and drop. We've already seen it this year from our own OLBs and others such as Mario Williams (first to come to mind). I'm not going to argue with you because you are wrong and misinformed. In a base 3-4, OLBs does not put their hand on the ground unless they they are kicking down to DE in passing situations. There are a few reasons they stand up. A 2 point stance allows the OLB to locate the ball quicker so they can squeeze the play down inside or keep outside contain. It also allows them better leverage at the POA since they are always shaded outside of the furthest man. It allows them the ability to float or move around presnap and it also makes executing stunts quicker. Go argue with the wall about this, you are wrong. What was my original point? The Bills will be in a 4-3 over/under base becasue they DON"T have the horses to play OLB in a 3-4. Like I said, when their starting personnel is out there, they are in a 4-3 the majority of the time. They might show other looks, they might call themselves a 3-4 team, but what's been shown in the first couple of games is they will be in a 5 man front, but a 4-3 U/U alignment. On which down were they in a 3-4? 2nd and 11. KW was playing two gaps directly over the center. Every other play, him and Dereus were lined up in a 3 technique and had one gap responsibilities . That is a 4-3 base D.
Doc Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 2nd and 11. KW was playing two gaps directly over the center. Every other play, him and Dereus were lined up in a 3 technique and had one gap responsibilities . That is a 4-3 base D. The NFL.com gamebook says they were in a 3-4 to start the game: LDE 99 M.Dareus NT 95 K.Williams RDE 98 D.Edwards SLB 57 D.Batten MLB 54 A.Davis WLB 50 N.Barnett JLB 92 A.Carrington
John from Riverside Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 I'm not going to argue with you because you are wrong and misinformed. In a base 3-4, OLBs does not put their hand on the ground unless they they are kicking down to DE in passing situations. There are a few reasons they stand up. A 2 point stance allows the OLB to locate the ball quicker so they can squeeze the play down inside or keep outside contain. It also allows them better leverage at the POA since they are always shaded outside of the furthest man. It allows them the ability to float or move around presnap and it also makes executing stunts quicker. Go argue with the wall about this, you are wrong. What was my original point? The Bills will be in a 4-3 over/under base becasue they DON"T have the horses to play OLB in a 3-4. Like I said, when their starting personnel is out there, they are in a 4-3 the majority of the time. They might show other looks, they might call themselves a 3-4 team, but what's been shown in the first couple of games is they will be in a 5 man front, but a 4-3 U/U alignment. 2nd and 11. KW was playing two gaps directly over the center. Every other play, him and Dereus were lined up in a 3 technique and had one gap responsibilities . That is a 4-3 base D. or just try this on for size....perhaps they are EXPERIMENTING and seeing what they can do with different guys cause its pre season? I wouldnt get to worked up in the formations in pre season.....they are looking at different guys. We absolutely have the horses to run a 3-4.....
Adam Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 The following quotes are from NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity. • "I keep hearing what a great job (Bills GM) Buddy Nix is doing. The offensive line sucks. He did not address the quarterback position. (C.J.) Spiller is still struggling two years running. How do you win with (Kraig) Urbik, (Erik) Pears and Demetrius Bell starting on your offensive line? And there is nothing behind them. They paid Nick Barnett a ton of money to play in a system that he is not good at. He is a 4-3 Mike 'backer who is on the downside of his career. Who are their outside 'backers? (Chris) Kelsay and (Shawne) Merriman are old and broken down. There's nothing behind them. I'm shocked Jammie Kirlew is on an NFL roster. Buddy has been around awhile — he must have the hype machine working overtime. Unless I'm missing something, that is a bad football team." Have at it..... What great offensive linemen and quarterbacks did he pass on?
DrDawkinstein Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 2nd and 11. KW was playing two gaps directly over the center. Every other play, him and Dereus were lined up in a 3 technique and had one gap responsibilities . That is a 4-3 base D. Gap responsibility, and where they line up, does not dictate what the defense is... As evidenced here, in a very good breakdown of the different types of 3-4 and 4-3 defenses you can run: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/1/11/1927873/examining-multiple-defensive-fronts-featuring-kyle-williams I think you and I are both splitting hairs over something neither of us can know for sure, considering we aren't on the Bills coaching staff. So agree to disagree there. But I still say we have the personnel to run a 3-4.
John Cocktosten Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 The NFL.com gamebook says they were in a 3-4 to start the game: LDE 99 M.Dareus NT 95 K.Williams RDE 98 D.Edwards SLB 57 D.Batten MLB 54 A.Davis WLB 50 N.Barnett JLB 92 A.Carrington The gameday books are never wrong are they? Come on Doc! I said this before, go actually watch the game. I don't care what they are calling Carrington, he is a DE and he was playing that way to start the game. 4-3 U/U defense, look it up.
Doc Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 The gameday books are never wrong are they? Come on Doc! I said this before, go actually watch the game. I don't care what they are calling Carrington, he is a DE and he was playing that way to start the game. 4-3 U/U defense, look it up. Carrington has been practicing/playing OLB for awhile now.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Not sure if this was a dig at my opinion or not. My point is, Nix and Gailey are not infallible. Their decisions should be scrutinized. There are plenty of positives, but a good amount of negatives with this franchise. It's just about differentiating the two. Agree, but where did we improve our weak off line in draft or fre agency?
LABills08 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Agree, but where did we improve our weak off line in draft or fre agency? We didn't. That's what I'm saying. And Nix should be pressed about this.
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