AP State of the Bills

[JohnC]

i know there are some lawyers on the board...how bout it? best alternative i can think of to tar and feathering and running wilson out on a rail. as greedy as he is, losing a lawsuit would hurt him more. 50 years of fan and community support and he allows it to end like this. yes, many of us have known this is business as usual at obd but the austerity hasn't been this bad in more than 20 years. wilson apparently has lost his last remaining shreds of pride and decency.

 

Ralph is simply being Ralph. There is nothing new here. He has run the operation the same way for half a century.

 

How do you shame a person who is shameless?

[1B4IDie]

So, in other words, Jim Overdorf is going to be the next Tom Modrak?

+1

Now we'll see the Overdorf conspiracies.

I guess they finally figured out who's the next whipping boy.

[DC Tom]

This thread could use a ray of sunshine (depending on your point of view), so consider this:

 

1. Can we can safely assume that jw is well aware of the consequences, communication-wise, of what he wrote?

 

2. Do we have any reason to think that jw has any plans to retire from his chosen profession, or to move to some other part of the country?

 

3. So why would jw choose to write this piece NOW?

 

Hint - - AFAIK (could be wrong), Ralph hasn't been seen in public since the draft. There is a law commonly referred to as HIPAA, which protects the privacy of patient medical information. Hospitals have fired employees for disclosing information about the medical condition of patients who want to keep their medical information private, or even for just looking up such medical information when not required to perform their job duties. Examples:

 

http://www.news4jax.com/news/17859733/detail.html

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/05/06/allina-fires-32-employees-for-snooping-at-patient-records/

 

So ask yourself again, why did jw write this piece now?

 

I think the Tripoli chapter of the Bills Backers were the first to figure it out!

 

youtube.com/watch?v=IAU48xDdCjA

 

[plenzmd1]

what i wrote is what i wrote. sorry, but staying out of this discussion.

 

jw

 

John, great article, enjoyed reading it, even if the Overdorf stuff makes me ill.

 

However, I am curious why you are taking this stance. Is it because this is a message board? If ESPN or Florio or Dan Patrick wanted to have you on to go into more depth..would you? I ask just cause I am curious, and nothing more.I mean I know it's only the Bills and not a whole lot of people care about this sad sack franchise outside those of us who grew up in WNY, but this seems to me to be a fairly big deal, and one in which the guy who broke the story can and should get some exposure outsdie of the the Washngton Examiner.

 

I must say, this past two weeks have been crazy in Bills fandom. I was highly encouraged at the end of last year, loved the draft, thought we were heading the right direction and guys loved playing for Chan. I even thought the Bears game was encouraging. Then the Levitre thing, then the debacle in Denver,then Freddy, then this comes out. Man in 10 days my outlook has gone 180 degrees frpm optimism to I don't know what. Will prolly go back in they kick tail in the first half this week.

[pimp on da' net]

Or he might have had a bad case of gas. Just saying...

 

Ahhh...never thought of the spicy chicken wings before a flight, LOL. Good point!!!

[UConn James]

This thread could use a ray of sunshine (depending on your point of view), so consider this:

 

1. Can we can safely assume that jw is well aware of the consequences, communication-wise, of what he wrote?

 

2. Do we have any reason to think that jw has any plans to retire from his chosen profession, or to move to some other part of the country?

 

3. So why would jw choose to write this piece NOW?

 

Hint - - AFAIK (could be wrong), Ralph hasn't been seen in public since the draft. There is a law commonly referred to as HIPAA, which protects the privacy of patient medical information. Hospitals have fired employees for disclosing information about the medical condition of patients who want to keep their medical information private, or even for just looking up such medical information when not required to perform their job duties. Examples:

 

http://www.news4jax.com/news/17859733/detail.html

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/05/06/allina-fires-32-employees-for-snooping-at-patient-records/

 

So ask yourself again, why did jw write this piece now?

 

I think the Tripoli chapter of the Bills Backers were the first to figure it out!

 

youtube.com/watch?v=IAU48xDdCjA

 

Craig Ferguson (of the Late Late Show) had a standup bit where he posed his methodology for broaching sensitive subjects.

 

1) Does this need to be said?

2) Does this need to be said by me?

3) Does this need to be said by me now?

 

Any journalist worth his salt knows the fine line of when to pull back on his/her punches, but it's inexcusable to not ask the question and not tell your readers what you've found out. Now, your coverage subject(s) can think what they want about it, they can be whatever degree of angry they want to be that JW disclosed that the Evans move was a salary dump commanded from higher up and executed by Overdorf (it just had to be at the instigation/blessing of any combination of Littman or Brandon as the go-between for RW) rather than it was a strategic FO move by Nix or a competitive football move suggested by Gailey.

 

And even if Nix didn't want to say anything beyond what he did so as not to piss off the natives who bankroll and whose asses are in the seats of the sports entertainment franchise he's a part of, we've all suspected this for a long time. Correction: we've known this for a long time, unless you were a complete moron or living under a rock. Now it's down in black and white.

 

But how pissed off can they be when they know it's true?

 

This did need to be said, it needed to be said by someone in the Buffalo media to finally, definitively call a spade a spade, and it needed to be said now (in fact, it needed to be said 8-10 years ago) because Ralph ought to have a glimpse of his final legacy --- as the cheapskate owner who kept the Bills in town, yes, but who slowly skinned the buffalo alive so he could sell the hide piece by piece.

 

With the league politics, the increasing on-field interferences with what used to be a wonderful game, and the fact that there are 11 minutes of action in a 3-hour game, last season was the first where I skipped watching several games, did something productive with my afternoon instead, and didn't mind a whit.

 

This team gets this year and next offseason to prove to me that they give a **** about winning. If I don't see much indication of it, I am through with spending any coin or any time on this team until it has new ownership.

Edited August 24, 2011 by UConn James

[DC Tom]

John, great article, enjoyed reading it, even if the Overdorf stuff makes me ill.

 

However, I am curious why you are taking this stance. Is it because this is a message board? If ESPN or Florio or Dan Patrick wanted to have you on to go into more depth..would you? I ask just cause I am curious, and nothing more.I mean I know it's only the Bills and not a whole lot of people care about this sad sack franchise outside those of us who grew up in WNY, but this seems to me to be a fairly big deal, and one in which the guy who broke the story can and should get some exposure outsdie of the the Washngton Examiner.

 

jw's an AP writer...Washington Examiner just happens to be the link GG provided; the story does have national exposure.

[jester43]

John effing Wawrow, thanks for writing this. It does seem like more and more of the pollyannas are waking up in and around Buffalo. Hopefully they'll have the good sense to treat Ralphy Burns to half-empty stadium on opening day.

 

The only word for the way this franchise is being run is CYNICAL.

 

Cynical toward the gm (whether or not he's in over his head, he's still being forced to fight with one arm behind his back), cynical to the coaches (who just lost a solid contributor for no good reason at all), and most important, CYNICAL TO THE FANS who've made the Wilson family richer than probably every member of this site put together, yet aren't even provided a credible ILLUSION that things are somehow changing.

 

These scumbags (Ralph and the beancounters) have the good and loyal Bills fans by the 'nads and they know it...so they just keep stooping lower and squeezing tighter. A team this bad starting it's fire sale (the Evans trade) before the season even starts is a disgusting insult. Is Wilson even aware what he's doing to his legacy as "Hall-of-Fame" owner? It this rate he's going to die being completely vilified by the people who should adore him most, other than his own family.

 

And speaking of his family, I wonder if they care about any of that? With all their piles of f.u. money, probably not.

 

I'm more convinced than ever the team is as good as gone when he dies, and as far as I'm concerned Ralph (even if doesn't know this is happening he's responsible for giving the others power to do it) Wilson has gone from being MERELY cheap, meddling and inept to the NFL equivalent of Saddam Hussein blowing up the oil wells on his way out of power.

[GG]

jw's an AP writer...Washington Examiner just happens to be the link GG provided; the story does have national exposure.

 

Yup, it ran in all national papers who have a distribution deal with AP. In some versions, you see a longer headline:

 

NFL 2011: Buffalo Bills _ remember them? _ still a work in progress

[zow2]

I'd be surprised if Overdorf is making the actual football decisions. I think his main purpose is to carry out the orders of the football side and to work the cap. Can anyone give me an example of a unilateral football decision that he has made? Overdorf knows as much about football as most of the hardcore fans here... HE doesn't sit and study film and coach or scout players as far as i know.

[Kelly the Dog]

who the !@#$ cares when we're not going to be competitive with either of those teams anyway!?!? IF YOU'RE DUMPING LEE EVANS, YOU'RE NOT TRYING TO COMPETE. PERIOD.

 

only a complete moron would, as the gm of a bottom-feeding team, refuse a 3rd and take a 4th for lee evans. UNLESS you were more concerned about next year's payroll.

 

my god this board is like the twilight zone the way some people defend the actions of these idiots.

I wasnt defending the Bills. I was and am one of the most adamant posters here that trading Evans was a terrible move and should never have been made. I was simply answering another poster's hypothetical question.

 

Not to mention that the GM of the team did not make the trade. That was the premise of this thread and article it was based on. Now who is the "complete moron"?

[UConn James]

+1

Now we'll see the Overdorf conspiracies.

I guess they finally figured out who's the next whipping boy.

 

More marketing and having a fall guy to impale on the sword when the natives get restless.

 

Like that line in "Clear and Present Danger," Jim Overdorf can't tie his shoes without say-so. He was hired to do what he's told. I can't personally put all the blame on him for that. He may not have a clear "cut/trade Player X" but he definitely has a hard number that he needs to reach below.

 

We finally need to identify and speak against the root of the problem rather than hacking at the branches. And in no uncertain terms, the root is Ralph Wilson's method of ownership.

Edited August 24, 2011 by UConn James

[gumby]

I'd be surprised if Overdorf is making the actual football decisions. I think his main purpose is to carry out the orders of the football side and to work the cap. Can anyone give me an example of a unilateral football decision that he has made? Overdorf knows as much about football as most of the hardcore fans here... HE doesn't sit and study film and coach or scout players as far as i know.

 

Overdorf cut Troy Vincent without informing anyone beforehand.

[jester43]

I wasnt defending the Bills. I was and am one of the most adamant posters here that trading Evans was a terrible move and should never have been made. I was simply answering another poster's hypothetical question.

 

Not to mention that the GM of the team did not make the trade. That was the premise of this thread and article it was based on. Now who is the "complete moron"?

first of all I AM SORRY. I was having a fit of insomnia and that was way too harsh. But to say that the bills are better off settling for the ravens 4th than the 3rd from the jets or n.e. is something I disagree with, for the reason I stated. You can't try to get in the beancounter's heads and justify it, because there is no strategic benefit to it all. yuo CANNOT spin that move to make any sense at all.

 

If we were a legit playoff contender, that logic might make a shred of sense. But, in the position we're in now...? It is just complete idiocy to turn down a 3rd and accept a 4th.

 

Unless you really are counting every last bean and thinking about next year's payroll. And give the history here, you can't dismiss that possibility. In fact, you have to assume it until proven otherwise.

[plenzmd1]

Yup, it ran in all national papers who have a distribution deal with AP. In some versions, you see a longer headline:

 

NFL 2011: Buffalo Bills _ remember them? _ still a work in progress

 

 

 

 

My mistake, ran a search with original title..very few results. Just figured that with how irrelevant this team has become, maybe most AP outlets just declined to run the piece. KNow John is AP.

 

BTW, this is why I want John to discuss. I mean John is by far the best at covering the Bills, and I mean by a wide margin. I think back to the Ralph interview from last year, the Donte piece during the lockout, this article..I mean all awesome stuff. To me Sully and Harrington have fan boy opinions just like you and me, but John is getting and breaking actual news (hope AW is doing well btw)

 

 

Cmon John..throw us a bone and get on a national show and discuss this in more detail..the guys at NFL on XM have a lot of time to fill in the day..I would think they eat this story up.

 

John, how long to you run to Yahoo..lordy are they cleaning ESPNs clock or what ??

[UConn James]

first of all I AM SORRY. I was having a fit of insomnia and that was way too harsh. But to say that the bills are better off settling for the ravens 4th than the 3rd from the jets or n.e. is something I disagree with, for the reason I stated. You can't try to get in the beancounter's heads and justify it, because there is no strategic benefit to it all. yuo CANNOT spin that move to make any sense at all.

 

If we were a legit playoff contender, that logic might make a shred of sense. But, in the position we're in now...? It is just complete idiocy to turn down a 3rd and accept a 4th.

 

Unless you really are counting every last bean and thinking about next year's payroll. And give the history here, you can't dismiss that possibility. In fact, you have to assume it until proven otherwise.

 

Does this marginal difference even matter, really?

 

It's just another schmoe who, by a rather small-percent chance, if he does pan out within 4 years, the front office probably won't be allowed to re-sign.

 

The new CBA's rookie contract rules are going to absolutely kill any last iota of hope this franchise has under Ralph Wilson's ownership.

Edited August 24, 2011 by UConn James

[NY Nole]

Wait a second, while all this is good speculation....JW if you're reading this, can you clarify if that's what Nix was implying? You mention Nix didn't handle trade talks - can you expand on knowledge of whether this is uncommon for Nix? You don't have a quote from Nix in the article and I can't find any other AP related story in which Nix implies he didn't want to trade Evans. The only direct information I can find is an interview in which he seems to say he made that decision:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/videonetwork/1108251671001/Buddy-Nix-talks-about-the-Lee-Evans-trade

 

I'm wondering if other factors he doesn't want to publicly state is the fact that Evans asked to be traded. Chris Brown has reported Lee Evans wanted out. Remember, the Bills had just paid him a $1.1 million in bonus money. If this was just a money decision, they could have traded him in the off-season and saved that cash. I seem to recall Nix saying he didn't want any player that didn't want to be a Bill.

 

I can't find any interview with Evans in which he was asked if he wanted to be traded. His comments once the rumors started didn't exactly sound like someone who was looking to stay a Bill. He basically said "Well, we'll see what happens!"

 

Am I understanding correctly that with the new salary cap floor next year, like it or not the Bills are going to have to add ~35m in roster salary?

 

Best post regarding this topic. It is really disconcerting that so many of you are being held hostage by the Buffalo Bills -- not allowed to pick a new team to root for. "Ralph is cheap", "Bills Suck," "Stop Buying Tickets" -- I really don't get this at all -- if you truly feel that the Bills are the worst run franchise with no hope -- then why subject yourself to the misery and find a new team. You guys are sucking the life out of the fun of rooting for the Bills. And speaking of sucking -- that's what I thought of JW's article. With all due respect JW, I know you get paid to sell your stories (and really what helps sell articles better than a good controversy or accentuating weaknesses to a fault). I mean, for a NFL team preview, there was not a single mention of Kyle Williams - the Bills Pro Bowl NT/DT. This guy finally seems to be getting recognition and respect around the league's media circuit but is noticeably absent in the one guy's story who actually covers the team most closely. Really? No word on Eric Wood - probably one of the best young interior lineman in the league and among the future players to watch for. What about the return of Parrish or the emergence of a player like David Nelson (another example of un-drafted players the Bills seemingly find every year). Instead the article tries to fan the "Bills are inept flame" and focuses on the Lee Evans trade - determined to get to the bottom of why the Bills traded a 30-yr old receiver who only had two 1,000 yard seasons in his career and is only known as a vertical-line threat that doesn't like to go over the middle. As for JW's assertion that Nix deferred to Overdorf for the entire handling of the trade -- I respectfully submit that he made this leap out of context. Another leap that JW made was:

 

"What's unmistakable is how Evans' departure shed light on much of what's gone wrong."

 

He then proceeds to rattle off a bunch of players let go -- that have yet to prove Buffalo wrong in their decision to get rid of them, yet the release of these unproductive players is apparently the root of what has gone wrong.

Edited August 24, 2011 by NY Nole

[JohnC]

jw, I need to offer a tepid apology and retraction. When the Evans transaction occurred I stated that I felt that it was simply a Nix personnel move. In a not so cryptic way you suggested that it wasn't necessarily so. I stand corrected.

 

It is going to be interesting to see what happens to Hangartner. The Bills have a policy of not paying starter money to backups. So that might indicate that Hangartner might be sent packing if he doesn't start somewhere along the line. The Bills might be bereft of backups along the line but when money is involved the finance men rule. What a chicken poop operation!

[Coach Tuesday]

Best post regarding this topic. It is really disconcerting that so many of you are being held hostage by the Buffalo Bills -- not allowed to pick a new team to root for. "Ralph is cheap", "Bills Suck," "Stop Buying Tickets" -- I really don't get this at all -- if you truly feel that the Bills are the worst run franchise with no hope -- then why subject yourself to the misery and find a new team. You guys are sucking the life out of the fun of rooting for the Bills. And speaking of sucking -- that's what I thought of JW's article. With all due respect JW, I know you get paid to sell your stories (and really what helps sell articles better than a good controversy or accentuating weaknesses to a fault). I mean, for a NFL team preview, there was not a single mention of Kyle Williams - the Bills Pro Bowl NT/DT. This guy finally seems to be getting recognition and respect around the league's media circuit but is noticeably absent in the one guy's story who actually covers the team most closely. Really? No word on Eric Wood - probably one of the best young interior lineman in the league and among the future players to watch for. What about the return of Parrish or the emergence of a player like David Nelson (another example of un-drafted players the Bills seemingly find every year). Instead the article tries to fan the "Bills are inept flame" and focuses on the Lee Evans trade - determined to get to the bottom of why the Bills traded a 30-yr old receiver who only had two 1,000 yard seasons in his career and is only known as a vertical-line threat that doesn't like to go over the middle. As for JW's assertion that Nix deferred to Overdorf for the entire handling of the trade -- I respectfully submit that he made this leap out of context. Another leap that JW made was:

 

"What's unmistakable is how Evans' departure shed light on much of what's gone wrong."

 

He then proceeds to rattle off a bunch of players let go -- that have yet to prove Buffalo wrong in their decision to get rid of them, yet the release of these unproductive players is apparently the root of what has gone wrong.

 

It is folks like you who make me wish I was an NFL owner. Frankly, you'd pay for anything I put in front of you. Oh, and by the way, it's not purely a "choice." If you live in WNY, your tax dollars are propping up Ralph the Fraudster and his cronies.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Coach Tuesday

[GG]

Best post regarding this topic. It is really disconcerting that so many of you are being held hostage by the Buffalo Bills -- not allowed to pick a new team to root for. "Ralph is cheap", "Bills Suck," "Stop Buying Tickets" -- I really don't get this at all -- if you truly feel that the Bills are the worst run franchise with no hope -- then why subject yourself to the misery and find a new team. You guys are sucking the life out of the fun of rooting for the Bills. And speaking of sucking -- that's what I thought of JW's article. With all due respect JW, I know you get paid to sell your stories (and really what helps sell articles better than a good controversy or accentuating weaknesses to a fault). I mean, for a NFL team preview, there was not a single mention of Kyle Williams - the Bills Pro Bowl NT/DT. This guy finally seems to be getting recognition and respect around the league's media circuit but is noticeably absent in the one guy's story who actually covers the team most closely. Really? No word on Eric Wood - probably one of the best young interior lineman in the league and among the future players to watch for. What about the return of Parrish or the emergence of a player like David Nelson (another example of un-drafted players the Bills seemingly find every year). Instead the article tries to fan the "Bills are inept flame" and focuses on the Lee Evans trade - determined to get to the bottom of why the Bills traded a 30-yr old receiver who only had two 1,000 yard seasons in his career and is only known as a vertical-line threat that doesn't like to go over the middle. As for JW's assertion that Nix deferred to Overdorf for the entire handling of the trade -- I respectfully submit that he made this leap out of context. Another leap that JW made was:

 

"What's unmistakable is how Evans' departure shed light on much of what's gone wrong."

 

He then proceeds to rattle off a bunch of players let go -- that have yet to prove Buffalo wrong in their decision to get rid of them, yet the release of these unproductive players is apparently the root of what has gone wrong.

 

That's some tasty Kool Aid you're serving up.