Doc Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) You're opinion ? Because that is far from accurate! Under Butler: The Bills are the NFL's best example of a successful team built through the draft and minimal free-agent signings. The Bills have had an average draft position of 22nd in each round since Butler replaced Bill Polian as general manager in 1993, yet have made the playoffs in five of those eight seasons. The Bills also had an NFL-high 18 draft picks filling 22 starting positions this season. You both are stating that Butler signed a "quick" contract with the Chargers, do you have a link to verify what you say or is this this pure speculation? The Chargers owner isn't a fool like RW, he saw the production from a GM on the field in Buffalo and realized his team was lacking talent necessary to win so he hired Butler. I'll bet the offer was far superior to anything Wilson offered him. From what I read that John Butler stated, he liked working for the Bills and liked living in the area (something not many will admit to) which is contrary to what you posted. If you guys want to believe opinions, speculations and hearsay then feel free. For me it doesn't get much better then a direct interview with the man in question, clear cut and concise. Did you think Butler was going to tell anyone "yeah, I planned on leaving that sinking ship and had a backdoor deal with SD. What a hole Buffalo was!" Of course not. Now I have no doubt he had some good times in Buffalo, given the team went to 4 straight SB's and the Chargers were still a bad team while he was alive. But it doesn't mean he wasn't looking to make a change after the mess he left in Buffalo, yet wanting to be paid in the upper third of GM's. are there any personnel losses/misses/failures throughout the bills history that you find blame with wilson on? while some of us get accused of being too negative, your posts seem to reflect a glorius past and recent history in which bills brass have performed extremely well. Wilson gets the ultimate blame for hiring incompetent people. If that makes him incompetent as an owner, so be it. It's his team, he hasn't made any moves with malice towards the fans, never gouged the fans, and never moved the team despite opportunities to do so (not to mention a golden opportunity now with LA). Do I wish he was better at making FO choices? Sure. But he is what he is. Edited August 28, 2011 by Doc
thewildrabbit Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Harvey, I say this respectfully: You are missing my fundamental point. The issue isn't what Butler felt it was what the owner believed. If you don't understand what I am getting at then so be it. If you go back and re-read what I was saying about the situation then you might have a better grasp of what my central point is i.e. different perception and interpretaion over the same set of facts. It's usually better to listen to what someone is saying than reinforcing what you already think one is saying. There comes a point where additional elaboration is redundant and futile. Let's simply agree to disagree and move on. It doesn't get any plainer then a direct quote from you, you stated : After the split Butler made it more known that he found it intolerable working for the meddling owner and his constant harping about costs. He was simply fed up with the way owner operated. Which Butler never did state that, that I'm aware of. If you have viable proof in a link that states it came directly from him... then post it. Butler stated he loved the area, loved working the Bills and had no plans to leave. He was shocked when the owner fired him. .. P.S. What bothers me about this whole issue is everyone paints John Butler as someone who didn't love his job as GM of the Buffalo Bills, someone who didn't like working for Ralph Wilson or get along with the him. When the facts are the only animosity that I know of came from Ralph Wilson himself, and he should have made Butler one of, if not the highest paid GM's in the league, instead of firing him.
JohnC Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) It doesn't get any plainer then a direct quote from you, you stated : Which Butler never did state that, that I'm aware of. If you have viable proof in a link that states it came directly from him... then post it. Butler stated he loved the area, loved working the Bills and had no plans to leave. He was shocked when the owner fired him. .. P.S. What bothers me about this whole issue is everyone paints John Butler as someone who didn't love his job as GM of the Buffalo Bills, someone who didn't like working for Ralph Wilson or get along with the him. When the facts are the only animosity that I know of came from Ralph Wilson himself, and he should have made Butler one of, if not the highest paid GM's in the league, instead of firing him. Harvey, This is the last time I'm going to make this simple point which you find difficult to grasp. They each had very different perceptions of the situation. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2000/12/19/bills_butler_ap/ With respect to working under the cantankerous and meddling owner if you don't think that it was difficult for JB, Polian, Chuck Know or anyone else to work for the penny pinching and meddlesome owner then you are out of touch with his ownership style that he has had for half a century. Edited August 28, 2011 by JohnC
Ramius Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 bump, for those that haven't read the original article, and think Sullivan came up with the "Overdork and Littman are running the team and making football decisions" argument by himself.
thewildrabbit Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) Harvey, This is the last time I'm going to make this simple point which you find difficult to grasp. They each had very different perceptions of the situation. http://sportsillustr...ills_butler_ap/ With respect to working under the cantankerous and meddling owner if you don't think that it was difficult for JB, Polian, Chuck Know or anyone else to work for the penny pinching and meddlesome owner then you are out of touch with his ownership style that he has had for half a century. The entire point of my posts on this subject concern the statement made by you that has absolutely no truth to it, and it is total speculation by you and others. I respectfully disagree with your version. After the split Butler made it more known that he found it intolerable working for the meddling owner and his constant harping about costs. He was simply fed up with the way owner operated. When, where, how? I'm still waiting for you to provide proof to back up this statement, and don't link the SI Don Banks article because all Banks does is speculate as to other reasons why Butler left When you talk of perception...its what you most everyone else doesn't get, JB loved the Buffalo area and liked working for RW and the Buffalo Bills. This is what compounds the idiotic move by RW to fire him. He found a man who actually liked working for him, unlike Chuck Knox-Bill Polian and so many others Edited September 2, 2011 by Harvey lives
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