AP State of the Bills

[HalftimeAdjustment]

where has this candor from the press been? as others have mentioned, this s$#t is not new. is there something else bubbling under the surface that has prompted all this open wilson criticism by the press? at any rate, it's long overdue. it almost makes jerry sullivan look mainstream.

 

I think there is another factor at work here. The Bills' financial oriented moves have become more transparent now, because of the recent CBA rules. Last year, this year, and 2012 have no salary floor. Prior to 2010, there was some kind of salary floor (If I recall correctly), and so there was a minimum salary level below which money savings were negligible. During the last several years we saw a few relatively high-dollar contracts to rookies (Maybin, Spiller), FAs (Dockery) and team members (Kelsay). Not a lot, and the Bills still underspent, but they were near the middle of the pack on spending. Cutting a veteran to save money was not as effective if they could be required to pay someone else.

 

Contrast that with the current situation. The rookies have been locked into a wage scale. The salary floor does not start until 2013. Every dollar cut from salary goes to the bottom line. Then we see the Evans trade. I believe 4th round was "fair value" for Lee Evans based on other trades in the NFL. However, it cannot reasonably be said to be likely to improve the team's play and is (in my opinion) more likely to harm it. Some might argue it is neutral, but the financial benefit is obvious. So, I think the difference in criticism is a combination of the contrast with Pegula and the newfound transparency of the team's financial moves.

 

Consider this - the finance guys have to stockpile money now, because they will be subject to a salary floor in 2013. Underspending in 2011-2012 is the only way for them to pad the bank account on the cost side. Starting in 2013, most of the team's money efforts will need to be on revenue increases. I'm guessing most people are expecting a new owner by then.

[Kelly the Dog]

As follow up to an earlier post, it's already starting. The Kyle Williams deal is reportedly almost done. Then the Bills start working on Stevie Johnson.

 

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeB_WGR

 

The Bills are going to spend a bunch of cash this year, it just won't be a lot on shiny new toys. The Kirk Morrison deals are good though because he probably came very cheap, and it's one year while they groom Shep and Chris White. If Morrison plays well, perhaps they give him a new deal. I like our LBs as a group now though, a complete transformation and a good one. Great if Merriman is back.

 

I do predict, however, we will sign an OL after some cuts from other teams. More veterans could be moving out of Buffalo, too, though.

[Captain Caveman]

Let me start out by saying that I am not a part of the Ralph is cheap crowd. (I do enjoy posting it sarcastically.) With that said, can anyone explain why we have a salary cap man? What are the chances we will need someone in that function before 2013?

[K-9]

As follow up to an earlier post, it's already starting. The Kyle Williams deal is reportedly almost done. Then the Bills start working on Stevie Johnson.

 

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeB_WGR

 

The Bills are going to spend a bunch of cash this year, it just won't be a lot on shiny new toys. The Kirk Morrison deals are good though because he probably came very cheap, and it's one year while they groom Shep and Chris White. If Morrison plays well, perhaps they give him a new deal. I like our LBs as a group now though, a complete transformation and a good one. Great if Merriman is back.

 

I do predict, however, we will sign an OL after some cuts from other teams. More veterans could be moving out of Buffalo, too, though.

 

Good stuff, Kelly. Thanks for posting.

 

As poor as other positions were last season, our LBs as a group were by far the worst. And they set out to fix it. I'll be interested to see if Kelsay actually plays OLB vs. being a situational pass rushing DE. But Merriman is key.

 

As for more vets moving out of Buffalo well, that has to be done from time to time. Not unlike the purges we've seen before. Sucks to lose guys we all like but that's the nature of the beast.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[HalftimeAdjustment]

As follow up to an earlier post, it's already starting. The Kyle Williams deal is reportedly almost done. Then the Bills start working on Stevie Johnson.

 

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeB_WGR

 

The Bills are going to spend a bunch of cash this year, it just won't be a lot on shiny new toys. The Kirk Morrison deals are good though because he probably came very cheap, and it's one year while they groom Shep and Chris White. If Morrison plays well, perhaps they give him a new deal. I like our LBs as a group now though, a complete transformation and a good one. Great if Merriman is back.

 

I do predict, however, we will sign an OL after some cuts from other teams. More veterans could be moving out of Buffalo, too, though.

 

Let's see how much of these deals increase in salary in 2013, since there is a cash spend floor in 2013. So it makes a lot of sense for the team to spend money on relatively young players to lock them up in the future (of course they will need to give the players something in 2011-12). I think all teams, not just the Bills, will see this logic. This is a bit different than the old approach of giving a large bonus and amortizing it over the entire deal for salary cap savings (which the Bills did not need to do anyhow).

[billsfreak]

Reading that was like a punch in the gut. We wonder why Buffalo doesn't attract more free agent talent? Look at the attitudes of the guys on the team currently. I don't blame leaders like Jackson and Florence for complaining - i feel bad for them and the other guys. This s**t trickles down from the very top, and is just one big middle finger to us.

I agree, yet I have been threatened to be banned from this board for my negativity in saying the same exact type of stuff? The truth hurts I guess.

[Jauronimo]

I agree, yet I have been threatened to be banned from this board for my negativity in saying the same exact type of stuff? The truth hurts I guess.

You don't seem to realize that nobody cared about your views regarding the Bills ownership. You aren't the first person to take issue with Bills management, nor will you be the last. The "Ralph is cheap" argument is not unique to you, in fact its well represented at TBD. What drew the ire of so many posters here at TBD was not your opinions, but your need to inject them in seemingly every thread no matter what the topic of discussion.

[GaryPinC]

As follow up to an earlier post, it's already starting. The Kyle Williams deal is reportedly almost done. Then the Bills start working on Stevie Johnson.

 

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeB_WGR

 

The Bills are going to spend a bunch of cash this year, it just won't be a lot on shiny new toys. The Kirk Morrison deals are good though because he probably came very cheap, and it's one year while they groom Shep and Chris White. If Morrison plays well, perhaps they give him a new deal. I like our LBs as a group now though, a complete transformation and a good one. Great if Merriman is back.

 

I do predict, however, we will sign an OL after some cuts from other teams. More veterans could be moving out of Buffalo, too, though.

 

Good points, but let's see if these contracts actually get completed. I do believe Ralph wanted to build a winner when he brought Nix and Gailey in, but if his health has gotten significantly worse over the last month it may have induced a change in philosophy for the franchise.

 

I agree, yet I have been threatened to be banned from this board for my negativity in saying the same exact type of stuff? The truth hurts I guess.

 

In my 41+ years on this planet I have learned that it's not what you have to say but rather how you say it that matters most.

[bills_fan]

I don't think this is a development. I think this has always been the case, at least since Donohoe was here, when he had all authority. Ralph crawled back into a cave when he gave TD total control, and then felt like he completely lost his team. So he renamed himself President and he put back his own henchmen Overdork and Littman in charge. He soon got Marv back whom he trusted, but that didn't work. He put a marketer in as GM who didn't really have GM normal duties because Overdork, Littman, Jauron and Modrak/John Guy split all of them. No wonder we have been terrible for a decade. But this isn't new. Ralph made decisions like this well before Donohoe, too.

 

 

Reading your posts in this thread and I feel gut-punched. I agree that they are most likely true...but since the Evans trade, I have had no desire to buy a ticket to a game, a jersey or even read the news about the Bills. I pop in sporadically now.

[Doc]

So, is your position to stick with the Evans demanded the trade position?

 

The deception is patently obvious. Nix talked to JW, and JW came away from that conversation connecting the dots that this trade happened with less than perfect agreement between the front office types. If there was not such disagreement and the trade happened because Lee Evans demanded it or because it was Nix' idea in total, then JW was deceived into explaining the circumstances in an entirely different (and unflattering) light altogether. Not to mention that the motivation for such deception would be to protect the image of a former player and that outweighing perhaps portraying the Bills FO as dysfunctional from a guy well known to be very direct, sometimes even apolitically -- "even the Raiders get calls."

 

It's not a stretch at all to believe the business side of the Bills acted on this. It's happened before. It's far more likely than the "my dog ate my homework" sort of explanations.

It's a stretch to believe that the Bills paid Evans $1.1M in bonuses and then traded him just to save money $3.275M (which is nothing for a starting WR these days), for a net savings of just $2.175M this season. Especially since he's not the biggest money earner on the team and the Bills just got done handing out several $4M/year deals to FA's. They could have not signed Barnett, Smith, or Thigpen, and kept Evans.

 

The most plausible explanation is that the Bills were phasing Evans out, he saw this and along with being tired of the losing, asked to be traded, preferably to a contender. The Ravens fit the bill and had interest, but only if the Bills paid the bonus due, and for that they'd offer a 4th, which is probably higher than a guy like Evans would otherwise command (given what other WR's had been traded for recently). Overdork merely handled the trade, which was a pick for a player and not anything difficult.

[DC Tom]

As follow up to an earlier post, it's already starting. The Kyle Williams deal is reportedly almost done. Then the Bills start working on Stevie Johnson.

 

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeB_WGR

 

I'll believe it when Moran tweets the exact opposite...

[birdog1960]

I think there is another factor at work here. The Bills' financial oriented moves have become more transparent now, because of the recent CBA rules. Last year, this year, and 2012 have no salary floor. Prior to 2010, there was some kind of salary floor (If I recall correctly), and so there was a minimum salary level below which money savings were negligible. During the last several years we saw a few relatively high-dollar contracts to rookies (Maybin, Spiller), FAs (Dockery) and team members (Kelsay). Not a lot, and the Bills still underspent, but they were near the middle of the pack on spending. Cutting a veteran to save money was not as effective if they could be required to pay someone else.

 

Contrast that with the current situation. The rookies have been locked into a wage scale. The salary floor does not start until 2013. Every dollar cut from salary goes to the bottom line. Then we see the Evans trade. I believe 4th round was "fair value" for Lee Evans based on other trades in the NFL. However, it cannot reasonably be said to be likely to improve the team's play and is (in my opinion) more likely to harm it. Some might argue it is neutral, but the financial benefit is obvious. So, I think the difference in criticism is a combination of the contrast with Pegula and the newfound transparency of the team's financial moves.

 

Consider this - the finance guys have to stockpile money now, because they will be subject to a salary floor in 2013. Underspending in 2011-2012 is the only way for them to pad the bank account on the cost side. Starting in 2013, most of the team's money efforts will need to be on revenue increases. I'm guessing most people are expecting a new owner by then.

thanks. this makes a lot of sense and is well presented.

[Mark Long Beach]

To say that the owner has done some things well and then conclude that one must lavish praise for something that should be done routinely is absurd. One should make a judgment on the body of work and not slivers of action. There is a simple way to measure success in pro sports: the record. You don't make an ultimate judgment based on arguing over the staffing, the drafting, the free agent acquisitions, the coaches etc. The owner can do whatever he wants to do, and he certainly has done so. The results are reflected in the record. You can't escape with lame excuses as to why the record is dismal. Ralph Wilson in half of century of ownership of the franchise has been the most central person in the decisions that have been made within the franchise. That is indisputable.

 

Over more than a half century of ownership there have been more lossess than victories. In a system designed for parity the Bills will be out of the playoffs for a dozen consecutive years with the count continuing on for additional years. The record of the Bills against winning teams over the past decade is in the range of 20%.

 

You are (politely) insisting that I acknowledge and give him credit for doing some things right. My response to that is that it is impossible to get everything wrong, no matter how stupendously incompetent one can be.

 

The record is the record. The body of work is the body of work. It stands on its own without the necessity to polish something that can't be polished.

 

The below link is by Bucky Gleason of the BufNews. You probably disagree with it. But the general point is that the caliber of ownership does make a difference on how an organization functions.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/bucky-gleason/article533186.ece

 

 

First off, Thanks, I have enjoyed the conversation, even though we don't agree on the overall view of Ralph & the Bills. It's been so much better than the constant Ralph is cheap/the world sucks/massive negativity that is far too often the posts around here.

 

As for Gleason's article that ownership matters? Duh. That premise is true. Look at what Mark Cuban has done for the Dallas Mavericks (a previously garbage team). As for Terrance Pegula? I know nothing of hockey. But hasn't he owned the team for less than a year? To paraphrase Dennis Green: if you want to crown him then crown his a! It takes more than a year to prove he's worth anything, but hey hopefully he will be. But even according to the article, Peluga lost a bundle on that one year, will he be willing to keep doing that? That's not a sustainable business model.

 

 

As for the Bills:

 

I'm not claiming Ralph is a saint. I am also not lavishing praise on him. I think he's made some very poor decisions that has cost his team dearly. I think the single biggest failure was in not finding a way to keep Polian who has shown to be the best GM in the NFL and while he was here he did great things.

 

His number of missteps over time has resulted in a overall 40% win/loss percentage. We've been to the playoffs 17 out of 51 seasons, also below average, but been to championship games 6 out of 51 which is above average. Overall this puts him squarely as a below average owner. But this doesn't make him a villain in my eyes. It seems to for many people.

 

But note this last decade has brought our record down from a 49% w/l record before 2000 to the depths that it is now. So before this lost decade, for 40 years, we essentially had a 50/50 w/l record. Hardly the nightmare owner he's being portrayed as.

 

Ralph is an old guy. At 92 years old he can't run a football team and hasn't been able to for a long time. He's been looking for a GM since he lost John Butler back in 2001 and this decade has been a disaster of GM hires (and subsequent coaching hires). Donahoe had a good reputation but couldn't live up to it. His attempt to restore faith in the fans with the return of Marv Levy was a short term pr success but was an absolute GM failure. His best staff member in Russ Brandon (who is great at his day job) inherited the mess and was also not up to the task. Now we have Nix and Whaley who are widely respected throughout the NFL. Will they succeed or fail like Donahoe? I don't know. But I like them significantly better than the previous choices, including Butler.

 

I don't blame Ralph for trying to find a solution. Mainly because if it fails he tries again. This is different from the true disasters in professional sports ownerships like Detroit where they stuck with a failure for 10 years, or Cincinnati where success is not an option, or the raiders which would be mind-numbingly bad for longer than the Bills if it wasn't for "chucky" Gruden (quickly fired).

 

In this decade we've gone through 5 different GM's trying to find one that can do the job. (Butler, Donahoe, Levy, Brandon, Nix)

 

I just don't understand how this can be interpreted as not caring. It's an example of poor hiring for sure. But the mistakes have been replaced quickly by GM standards and hopefully (knock on wood) we've got a good team in our law firm of Nix, Whaley & Gailey.

 

I hope they prove to be even better than Polian. I'm pretty sure they'll be better than the last decade.

[JohnC]

First off, Thanks, I have enjoyed the conversation, even though we don't agree on the overall view of Ralph & the Bills. It's been so much better than the constant Ralph is cheap/the world sucks/massive negativity that is far too often the posts around here.

 

As for Gleason's article that ownership matters? Duh. That premise is true. Look at what Mark Cuban has done for the Dallas Mavericks (a previously garbage team). As for Terrance Pegula? I know nothing of hockey. But hasn't he owned the team for less than a year? To paraphrase Dennis Green: if you want to crown him then crown his a! It takes more than a year to prove he's worth anything, but hey hopefully he will be. But even according to the article, Peluga lost a bundle on that one year, will he be willing to keep doing that? That's not a sustainable business model.

 

 

As for the Bills:

 

I'm not claiming Ralph is a saint. I am also not lavishing praise on him. I think he's made some very poor decisions that has cost his team dearly. I think the single biggest failure was in not finding a way to keep Polian who has shown to be the best GM in the NFL and while he was here he did great things.

 

His number of missteps over time has resulted in a overall 40% win/loss percentage. We've been to the playoffs 17 out of 51 seasons, also below average, but been to championship games 6 out of 51 which is above average. Overall this puts him squarely as a below average owner. But this doesn't make him a villain in my eyes. It seems to for many people.

 

But note this last decade has brought our record down from a 49% w/l record before 2000 to the depths that it is now. So before this lost decade, for 40 years, we essentially had a 50/50 w/l record. Hardly the nightmare owner he's being portrayed as.

 

Ralph is an old guy. At 92 years old he can't run a football team and hasn't been able to for a long time. He's been looking for a GM since he lost John Butler back in 2001 and this decade has been a disaster of GM hires (and subsequent coaching hires). Donahoe had a good reputation but couldn't live up to it. His attempt to restore faith in the fans with the return of Marv Levy was a short term pr success but was an absolute GM failure. His best staff member in Russ Brandon (who is great at his day job) inherited the mess and was also not up to the task. Now we have Nix and Whaley who are widely respected throughout the NFL. Will they succeed or fail like Donahoe? I don't know. But I like them significantly better than the previous choices, including Butler.

 

I don't blame Ralph for trying to find a solution. Mainly because if it fails he tries again. This is different from the true disasters in professional sports ownerships like Detroit where they stuck with a failure for 10 years, or Cincinnati where success is not an option, or the raiders which would be mind-numbingly bad for longer than the Bills if it wasn't for "chucky" Gruden (quickly fired).

 

In this decade we've gone through 5 different GM's trying to find one that can do the job. (Butler, Donahoe, Levy, Brandon, Nix)

 

I just don't understand how this can be interpreted as not caring. It's an example of poor hiring for sure. But the mistakes have been replaced quickly by GM standards and hopefully (knock on wood) we've got a good team in our law firm of Nix, Whaley & Gailey.

 

I hope they prove to be even better than Polian. I'm pretty sure they'll be better than the last decade.

 

I also enjoy the conversation. You are wrong if you think that I am characterizing the owner as a villain. That is not the case. My steadfast view is that as an owner he is incomptent. I'm not basing it on hs personality or moral traits. It is simply drawn from the way he has managed the franchise. Again, success in the NFL is very easy to measure. Just look at the record. There is no one management style that is required. There are a lot of various approaches that have proved successful. What is successful is very easy to determine. All you need to know is the W/L record.

 

You impressively point out the the failures of those who have been very disappointing in guiding the football operation. If you think it through you will realize that you are making a circular argument. The person who selected those flawed operators was the owner. He, with little consultation from the outside, is making the major hires for his business establishment.

 

The owner is 92 yrs old. At this stage in life you don't get better at what you do, especially if you haven't been good at what you do. If the owner wants to remain on the stage well past his prime, that is his prerogative. If that is the case then there should be no problem holding him accountable.

[Simon]

You don't seem to realize that nobody cared about your views regarding the Bills ownership. You aren't the first person to take issue with Bills management, nor will you be the last. The "Ralph is cheap" argument is not unique to you, in fact its well represented at TBD. What drew the ire of so many posters here at TBD was not your opinions, but your need to inject them in seemingly every thread no matter what the topic of discussion.

Thank you.

Perhaps he'll be able to grasp your explanation as the latest he was given apparently continues to elude him.

[eball]

You don't seem to realize that nobody cared about your views regarding the Bills ownership. You aren't the first person to take issue with Bills management, nor will you be the last. The "Ralph is cheap" argument is not unique to you, in fact its well represented at TBD. What drew the ire of so many posters here at TBD was not your opinions, but your need to inject them in seemingly every thread no matter what the topic of discussion.

i.e., the billsfreak crusade.

 

Just because something you say may be true, in whole or in part, doesn't mean everyone wants to be beaten over the head with it at every pass.

 

It's even worse when what you say is merely an opinion.

[Direhard Fan]

It has always been a business. Stop comlaining. Look at 714- is she complaining. Enjoy the season and be glad we have a season and a team of our own. Enjoy our new guys and hope for he best.

[BuffaloBill]

I just got done reading that article. It's clear to me now that with Overdorf's involvement and Nix's exclusion in the Evans deal, the Bills are in total cost cutting and savings mode. They will most likely do this until they have to meet a cap floor in 2013. In the meantime I fear things are going to get extremely fugly, especially in the locker room. I think we're seeing signs of that already.

 

If Nix and Gailey have any self-respect they'll offer up their resignations. Why would they want to work in their current capacities when their hands are obviously so tied?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

I do not knlow how you got any of this from the article. The Bills are in the midst of another rebuild. Arguably their talent level has improved but it comes down to leadership, coaching and players making plays. I have no delusions about this team. They could spend more, they have been horrible in the draft for a decade and they have no superstar players. The only way to test where they are is on the field in real games. We will see what we have in two weeks.

[K-9]

I do not knlow how you got any of this from the article. The Bills are in the midst of another rebuild. Arguably their talent level has improved but it comes down to leadership, coaching and players making plays. I have no delusions about this team. They could spend more, they have been horrible in the draft for a decade and they have no superstar players. The only way to test where they are is on the field in real games. We will see what we have in two weeks.

 

I hear you and I've cooled off since I read that article. I just found it a bit disconcerting at the time. I actually agree with your entire post. Well said.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[tennesseeboy]

look, Nix and Gailey are good at one thing...offering excuses. Show us some good football, and go out and win in the regular season. I for one do not know how on earth you are going to do that with the talent you presently have, but I'll be delighted to see you actually win nine games.

If you don't...I'll be delighted to see a new gm and coach next year.