Cash Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Faster does not equal more talented. Fred is the more talented back.
CBD Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Fred started last week and will likely start the season as the #1 back. Chan said as much in his post practice press conf, he feels both are #1 backs but Fred is ahead of CJ right now. They gave CJ the start in a worthless preseason game to get him some time with the first team offense. Perhaps Fred shouldn't be so sensitive.
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 We picked CJ first round. He's gotta play. The NFL is full of broken hearts. Suck it up and do what you're asked. PTR I agree with most of what you say Promo but not in this case..... Fred Jackson has done everything asked of him and has been a total team player and LEADER to this team....and he should be treated as such. If I was Chan Gailey I would address this immediately.....I would tell Fred that while CJ might be the number 1 of the future.....he is the number one of the now.....much in the same way that he threw his hat in and gave the vote of confidence for Fitzpatrick..... CJ has done NOTHING to this point to deserve otherwise....and if I was Chan I would remind Fred that you need two good backs in this league so he doesn't take a huge pounding by taking too many carries..... this needs to be handled and handled immediately
Buftex Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I would like to know what people think that CJ does better than Fred. I know CJ is faster. We've been told he is highly elusive, but from what I've seen he hasn't outperformed Fred. He's not better at catching. He's not better at blocking. "Fred is on the wrong side of 30!" Fred is outperforming this young 20-something. Make CJ earn it and both he and the Bills will be better for it. Exactly...if speed automatically made players superior, the Raiders would dominate year in year out...and this isn't a slight toward Spiller, I want to see him shine...but why not throw Jackson a bone...ego is a big part of this game.
Defend Greece Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I agree with most of what you say Promo but not in this case..... Fred Jackson has done everything asked of him and has been a total team player and LEADER to this team....and he should be treated as such. If I was Chan Gailey I would address this immediately.....I would tell Fred that while CJ might be the number 1 of the future.....he is the number one of the now.....much in the same way that he threw his hat in and gave the vote of confidence for Fitzpatrick..... CJ has done NOTHING to this point to deserve otherwise....and if I was Chan I would remind Fred that you need two good backs in this league so he doesn't take a huge pounding by taking too many carries..... this needs to be handled and handled immediately Bam! And not just for Freddie, for a young team without many leaders
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 YE OLE must chime in on this. For those who say this is about us wanting to embrace great stories about "overachievers" like Kyle Williams and Fred Jackson; it's simply not the case. These guys are damn good players. We could've drafted either of these guys in the first rd. and I wouldn't be upset. Fred may not be flashy, but look at his yards per carry. Look at the way he seems to always move the chains. You hand the ball to Fred Jackson in a tight spot where there's no hole and he needs 4 yards, he somehow gets you 5. I don't know how the hell the guy does it, but he has an unbelievable ability to get "slippery" That's the best way I can categorize it. For every running back we've had come through here, we make the excuse that they've got poor blocking up front... except for Freddie. He still gets his 4.5 yards per carry. He's one hell of a talent. I love CJ and his physical gifts. In time, hopefully he becomes a real homerun threat, but right now based sheer performance, Freddie is the superior back.
....lybob Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 CJ Spillers a home run threat every time he touches the Ball? yeah maybe but he also a threat to lose 4 yards every time he touches the ball- so far I haven't seen the strength and balance to break arm tackles, also haven't seen the vision and patience good backs have. Fans here dumped on Evans for being one dimensional but Spiller to me is even more so.
billsfan714 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 CJ is threat to go all the way, thats it, just a threat. 74 rushes last year and his longest run was 20 yards. Show me something and you will play more. God if this team will pay a stiff like Kelsay millions they should do it for a guy who actually produces week in and week out. Fred isn't an old 30, he hasnt been carrying the load for 8-9 years. He got a lot in that tank. And hes right, hes vastly underpayed when compared with his production.
Defend Greece Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I agree with most of what you say Promo but not in this case..... Fred Jackson has done everything asked of him and has been a total team player and LEADER to this team....and he should be treated as such. If I was Chan Gailey I would address this immediately.....I would tell Fred that while CJ might be the number 1 of the future.....he is the number one of the now.....much in the same way that he threw his hat in and gave the vote of confidence for Fitzpatrick..... CJ has done NOTHING to this point to deserve otherwise....and if I was Chan I would remind Fred that you need two good backs in this league so he doesn't take a huge pounding by taking too many carries..... this needs to be handled and handled immediately Bam! And not just for Freddie, for a young team without many leaders
NaPolian8693 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 What kind of little baby do you think Jackson is? He's a professional, and he's a grown ass man. He doesn't need a group hug just because they are giving the kid more carries. Give me a break.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Spiller has more raw talent. Jackson is a more complete nfl running back. Spiller's blitz pickup and pass protection is awful at this point. I would use 2 back sets with both in the backfield. Otherwise keep jackson in the backfield and split spiller out wide. I trust in Gailey's creativeness and dont think they'll just force spiller into a conventional RB role.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Fred's pissed off, and he has every right to be. He has held it in his entire career and has always been the good soldier, model citizen and model teammate and consummate pro. He's probably sick of getting crapped on, both by earlier staffs and this one, and more important the bean counters. BUT... The least of our worries is Fred Jackson. He will always play 100% on game day and he will produce. I think Gailey should have explained his thoughts to Fred a little earlier than this afternoon, but the fact is that Fred will be ready to play, and will play with everything he's got. He was pissed earlier in the game, but was furious when Donald Jones his teammate got hit, then ran like hell on his next carry. He may be furious at the Bills, too, but I doubt very much he will be a distraction. It's pretty much a non-issue, unless other players have less enthusiasm for the franchise because of the way the front office treats a warrior. Edited August 23, 2011 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Bills fans think Kyle Williams and Fred Williams are like, the saviors of the franchise or something. Don't get me wrong, I love underlooked overacheivers as much as the next guy, but lets get real. Spiller is running behind the worst O-Line in the NFL, he deserves some slack. His blocking is poor, I'll give you that. But guess what? He is a homerun threat every time he touches the ball. He's played for only 1 season and Bills fans are already clamoring for a 30 year old RB from Coe College to get more snaps again. I love the story. I love Fred's grit and his consistency, but objectively speaking, you want Spiller to touch the ball way more than Fred. He's just got more to offer in terms of natural ability, its that simple. And the only way he'll get better in terms of blocking and hitting the right holes, is via playing. I love Bills fans and how much we appreciate the hard working underdog, but I'll never understand why a lot of fans cheer when a talent like Lee Evans is traded so that some undrafted WR can be our number 2 receiver. Or how Jason Peters is an overrated bum so lets trade him and start an undrafted guy like Demetrius Bell ( I understand Peters was undrafted at a time). Or Roscoe Parrish is just terrible, he should be cut in favor of Naaman Roosevelt. I mean, this stuff is just crazy. I share the frustration when our most physically gifted players don't perform, but there needs to be some objectivity in the conversation. Fred Jackson deserves much more credit than he gets, but he's a 30 year old RB and Spiller is a top 10 draft pick who is entering his sophomore season. Why would Chan not say its CJ's job to lose when he's clearly the more talented guy? Fred will get his reps, but you have to use Spiller if you have him on your team. The same reason you wouldn't trade Tom Brady for JP Losman. Because Jackson is the better football player. He gives you the better chance to win. CJ can get experience the way many before him have, as the second swing of a 1-2 punch. Giving CJ first billing says you've given up on the season. Now where we the fans may not think we've got a shot at the playoffs, if the coach and GM are going into the season with that mentality they should be fired outright. How are you going to break the culture of losing if you go in expecting to lose and all but telling your players, "Hey guys, we suck, but maybe in a couple years we'll be ok"? Edit: Anyone else find it kind of odd that Brad Smith makes roughly twice Fred's salary? Edited August 23, 2011 by Rob's House
Defend Greece Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I don't even see why we have to discuss this. To me it's like saying Kyle and Jasper are both number one ngs
26TrapDraw Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 YE OLE must chime in on this. For those who say this is about us wanting to embrace great stories about "overachievers" like Kyle Williams and Fred Jackson; it's simply not the case. These guys are damn good players. We could've drafted either of these guys in the first rd. and I wouldn't be upset. Fred may not be flashy, but look at his yards per carry. Look at the way he seems to always move the chains. You hand the ball to Fred Jackson in a tight spot where there's no hole and he needs 4 yards, he somehow gets you 5. I don't know how the hell the guy does it, but he has an unbelievable ability to get "slippery" That's the best way I can categorize it. For every running back we've had come through here, we make the excuse that they've got poor blocking up front... except for Freddie. He still gets his 4.5 yards per carry. He's one hell of a talent. I love CJ and his physical gifts. In time, hopefully he becomes a real homerun threat, but right now based sheer performance, Freddie is the superior back. Amen
Rico Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 YE OLE must chime in on this. For those who say this is about us wanting to embrace great stories about "overachievers" like Kyle Williams and Fred Jackson; it's simply not the case. These guys are damn good players. We could've drafted either of these guys in the first rd. and I wouldn't be upset. Fred may not be flashy, but look at his yards per carry. Look at the way he seems to always move the chains. You hand the ball to Fred Jackson in a tight spot where there's no hole and he needs 4 yards, he somehow gets you 5. I don't know how the hell the guy does it, but he has an unbelievable ability to get "slippery" That's the best way I can categorize it. For every running back we've had come through here, we make the excuse that they've got poor blocking up front... except for Freddie. He still gets his 4.5 yards per carry. He's one hell of a talent. I love CJ and his physical gifts. In time, hopefully he becomes a real homerun threat, but right now based sheer performance, Freddie is the superior back. Bless you, YE OLE.
timba Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) This will be my last post on this, but people are making this argument to cut and dry. The fact is, CJ and Fred are two completely different backs. So lets stop pretending they are comparable players. There is no way either of them should be getting any more than 20 snaps each. Fred is a work horse who will get 4-5 yards at a time. CJ is a finesse back who will get stuffed behind the line of scrimmage a few times and then will break off a 50 yard play. It's just how they are. And personally, I do believe CJ is by far the more talented back. However, he is a finesse back playing behind the worst offensive line in football, which is a terrible combination. He is just simply not a guy who is going to break tackles. Fred, on the other hand IS a guy who breaks tackles and thus, behind a terrible offensive line, people perceive that he is MUST be outperforming CJ. When in reality, they both are role playing RB's. And just a general point, every Bills fan out there should be rooting for CJ to get more reps bc he is the future of this franchise. Not Fred Jackson. He needs the experience badly. Ahhh!! Now comparing Lee Evans to CJ Spiller!?!?! I can't figure Bills fans out. Dude... they're being compared because there is some idea that CJ is a better RB than Fred. If your requirement for a finesse RB is that his blocking needs to be prefect, than Fred should be measured by that same requirement. They're both playing behind the same line NOW, so yes there results can be compared. If we're talking about situational awareness in using these guys, I would be using CJ on 2nd and short, and 3rd and long when I've got my back going out as a receiver. I don't want CJ in when I need a dependable yard, dependable blocking from my back, or dependable hands from my back. If that doesn't 'define' your number 1 back, what does? Edited August 23, 2011 by timba
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I don't even see why we have to discuss this. To me it's like saying Kyle and Jasper are both number one ngs We should probably start Jasper because he has more physical potential and the season's already lost.
timba Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 YE OLE must chime in on this. For those who say this is about us wanting to embrace great stories about "overachievers" like Kyle Williams and Fred Jackson; it's simply not the case. These guys are damn good players. We could've drafted either of these guys in the first rd. and I wouldn't be upset. Fred may not be flashy, but look at his yards per carry. Look at the way he seems to always move the chains. You hand the ball to Fred Jackson in a tight spot where there's no hole and he needs 4 yards, he somehow gets you 5. I don't know how the hell the guy does it, but he has an unbelievable ability to get "slippery" That's the best way I can categorize it. For every running back we've had come through here, we make the excuse that they've got poor blocking up front... except for Freddie. He still gets his 4.5 yards per carry. He's one hell of a talent. I love CJ and his physical gifts. In time, hopefully he becomes a real homerun threat, but right now based sheer performance, Freddie is the superior back. You've got it right. If Fred had been a 1st round pick there wouldn't be any question on who should be considered our #1 back this year.
reddogblitz Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Fred is by FAR the better RB at this point in time. He should be starting and getting the bulk of the carries. If we want to try to win that is. F$CK the future. Let's put our best guys out there and make a run at this thing for crying out loud.
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