Jackson upset is not good

[Rob's House]

Again, I'm not comparing Spiller and Jackson. Jackson might be 100x better than Spiller. Spiller probably stinks. But giving playing time to untested young players rather than declining veterans is a sound decision on a team that is not in a mode to compete for at least a couple years.

So you advocate the coaching staff conceding the season before it starts?

 

One thing this team had going for it was a sense of unity; an us against the world mentality. It seemed at least that these guys believed in each other even if no one else did. Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like Chan is pissing that away. I'm partial to Chan because he's a good ol' boy from the south, and southerners are awesome, but how is the team supposed to believe they can win when their own coach doesn't. And from what I'm seeing, and the only justification are posts like yours, that certainly seems to be the case.

[Mike in Syracuse]

Watch the video and then tell me this is about anything more than getting paid. This isn't about respect and dedication to a team,. Jackson wants more money, he wants to get paid more than Spiller and if he's not the anointed #1 guy he's not getting more money.

 

Instead of being a coward and coming out and saying you don't fee respected, why not man up and just say "show me the money"

 

What a fraud.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Bills-Roundup-Clearing-the-Air/45898e0a-f991-4811-81f9-69759dd91886#?id=64a374b7-dc65-4731-b2e2-09282f17a09d

[nodnarb]

The media has fomented this unfortunate and unnecessary distraction.

 

I would bet anything that if our two preseason performances had been better that there wouldn't be so much acrimonious noise in the Buffalo fan-o-sphere. (pardon the term, my sentence sort of backed me into that corner.)

[LynchMob23]

Watch the video and then tell me this is about anything more than getting paid. This isn't about respect and dedication to a team,. Jackson wants more money, he wants to get paid more than Spiller and if he's not the anointed #1 guy he's not getting more money.

 

Instead of being a coward and coming out and saying you don't fee respected, why not man up and just say "show me the money"

 

What a fraud.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Bills-Roundup-Clearing-the-Air/45898e0a-f991-4811-81f9-69759dd91886#?id=64a374b7-dc65-4731-b2e2-09282f17a09d

It's disappointing, but his agent was dumb enough to get that deal. He's 30 and to pay him more money isn't the best thing to do for a back..

[snamsnoops]

IT"S PRE-MUTHA$#@*&^% SEASON! When week 1 of the season starts, except for injury, Derf Jackson will be our starting RB. Pre-season is for evaluation for the most part. We didn't have OTA's or any of that jazz to evaluate properly. Spiller is young and would be considered part of the long term future of this team. He needs practice and by practice i mean against another teams first stringers, also needs to play with our first stringers. Come week one Gailey will put out the best players. He said Derf is ahead of CJ (even if he said slightly) Derf Jackson is our BEST RB! Thats about it. IMHO!

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

It's disappointing, but his agent was dumb enough to get that deal. He's 30 and to pay him more money isn't the best thing to do for a back..

 

It was actually a pretty generous deal at the time. We had Lynch, and I think the idea was that he was getting paid very well for a RB in the #1B or #2 role.

 

I'm not sure what sort of deal he wants now. He's an excellent RB, but no one is going to pay him more given his age.

[rpcolosi]

i don't fault FJ at all. Is he underpaid. 100%. Should they work to get him extended to age 33 (add 1 year on the contract and bring hte avg up to 3-4mil per). That's a nice pay day for him and a good increase from just over 2mil/per. i'm not an expert, but if he renegotiate to a new 4 year deal at 16mil, thats almost double his current salary, still less than spiller, and friendly enough for a low-mileage 34yo running back. if you're worried, front load the deal. but I agree with him, we should renegotiate. He was in no position to barter last time, and this is likely his last chance to get paid. He's a heck of a RB, and he is going to lose out on millions if the Bills don't renegotiate or trade him. oh - and never win a championship....

[Defend Greece]

Being paid what you deserve is a sign of respect, which freddie has earned.

Evans earned the right to go off as well but he handles things different.

Just like Eric moulds, one of the best bills ever, who "quit" on the team.

We seam to have a real problem taking care of our three top offensive players of the last ten years

[Bufluv]

Watch the video and then tell me this is about anything more than getting paid. This isn't about respect and dedication to a team,. Jackson wants more money, he wants to get paid more than Spiller and if he's not the anointed #1 guy he's not getting more money.

 

Instead of being a coward and coming out and saying you don't fee respected, why not man up and just say "show me the money"

 

What a fraud.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Bills-Roundup-Clearing-the-Air/45898e0a-f991-4811-81f9-69759dd91886#?id=64a374b7-dc65-4731-b2e2-09282f17a09d

 

I think it's a combo of getting paid what you're worth and respect. Fred's been sandwiched between two First rounders that got paid much more, on potential... and so far, he's out-produced both. But when Fred is sent to the pine to watch Spiller make more and produce less, it's probably tough for him to take.

[Kelly the Dog]

Regardless of what I or you think, in the NFL and other comparable pro sports, players are all about respect. And the only way respect is gauged in pro sports is how much are players paid. There is no other way players measure it, and there really isn't any other way they can measure it, like it or not. The hypothetical may seem silly, but if "respect" were measured in acorns instead of cash, I would be willing to bet a lot of money that players would be wanting "acorns" as much as they wanted cash. If that meant that other players and fans thought they were better players than their contemporaries at the same position.

 

Pro athletes have huge egos. It helps them be pro athletes. If a team isn't paying you as much as they pay other players, or other players you are better than on other teams, you think they value that player more than you. That's what they feel is respect, like it or not, and it's everywhere, in all major pro sports.

 

It's true in a lot of other businesses as well. If you work for a company and are a huge earner, and yet they give a raise to a colleague you know you are a better worker than, you feel disrespected. It really isn't even about greed (although surely a lot of pro athletes are greedy).

 

How else, I am asking you, can a team show you they respect you, except paying you what you are worth?

 

And granted, some, if not a huge majority of pro players in all sports think they are worth more than they are paid, when they are not.Fred Jackson does not at all appear to be one of those guys. He's always been the good soldier. He's almost always been underpaid. He's almost always overproduced from what was expected and predicted of him. And now he sees the Bills are getting rid of veterans, and renegotiating with guys like Kyle and Fitz and Stevie Johnson, and he has had enough.

 

I find no problem with it whatsoever. You obviously do.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Last year touches were about 70-30 between Jackson and Spiller.

This year they might be be more like 60-40.

Much ado about nothing.

Is that what you divined from Gailey's comments that "I think probably the best way to talk about it right now is that they're (Fred Jackson and C.J. Spiller) both number one backs. Fred's a little bit ahead right now, but I think they're both number one backs?"

It sounds to me like they really want Spiller to take Jackson's job which is mystifying on so many levels. For one thing Jackson is much better and for another thing they bring completely different things to the table. I'm reminded of Kansas City's recent experiment to convert Dexter McCluster to wide receiver. I just can't see it being a one or the other situation… actually I can't see Jackson being removed from the game in any down-and-distance situation.

 

 

Duh. Aaron Maybin played and proved he couldn't. Why draft players if we only judge them in OTAs and camp?

 

 

Look at the game replay,. Spiller started but Jackson was right in after two plays. How is that getting benched???

 

PTR

See Cash's post above. Disrespected is disrespected.

 

I'm not a big stat guy, but this is an interesting article that was posted here a few months back.

 

http://www.profootba...ve-rating-2010/

 

IMO the #1 quality in a RB is the ability to make a tackler miss. It doesn't have to do with speed, it shows a RBs instincts. The one thing I've always thought about Fred, is he is tremendous at making the 1st guy miss. He does it well, better than most RBs in the league. My reason for saying he the best offensive weapon we've had since thurman. I understand many here disagree with that, cool with me.

Thanks NE, but my eyes tell me everything I need to know.

 

Rumors (so take them for what they are worth in the wake of Pat Moran last week):

 

@SaviorEdwards Savior Edwards Source: Fred Jackson wants out of Buffalo and trade talks have begun with 2 unnamed teams. The good news keeps coming.

 

@SaviorEdwards Savior Edwards Source: Several veteran players have already 'tuned out' Chan Gailey and questioning some of the recent personel moves. Yikes.

 

Again, take them how you want, especially when it's someone posting on Twitter.

Who is tweeting this and why should they have any credibility? If a tweet is anonymous, then it's unattributable. Unless this person has a track record, what point is there in posting this?

 

As stated, Freddy is pissed, not a problem.

 

He said everyone knows he's a huge team player and all his teammates know it, too. And he appreciates the Bills fans and their support.

 

https://twitter.com/...!/Fred22Jackson

I rarely disagree with you Kelly but I will quibble here. It's "not a problem" on the field. Off the field I think there is a problem.

 

You know you are a delusional Bills fan when you catch yourself thinking that Fred Jackson is some kind of elite NFL running back.

 

He is at best average, and honestly just a lower-third NFL running back talent.

Okay. Name me 20 running backs you think are better. This should be pretty funny.

 

Of all NFL running backs, young and old, starter and back-up, on good and bad teams, Fred Jackson is tied for 18th in career rushing average, an extremely good 4.4 career average. Four of the players, Fred Taylor, Corell Buckhalter, Brian Westbrook, and Derrick Ward don't really play much, so he's more like 14th of all RBs.Considering that he probably had worse blocking and passing attacks than any player above him, I would say that is a lot better than average.

 

And that doesn't count the fact that he is a good receiver, blocker and KR. Very few RBs in the league can do all those things well.

 

Players with the same or worse career averages? LT. Clinton Portis. Larry Johnson. Steven Jackson. All four were superstars. Ronnie Brown. Ryan Grant. McGahee. Rashard Mendenhall. Thomas Jones. Reggie Bush... the list goes on.

 

http://www.pro-footb..._att_active.htm

Apparently there are a significant group of people who actually think Fred is overrated and that this is due to him being an undrafted free agent.

 

As I said earlier, it really forces one to re-calibrate the football knowledge of some posters.

 

Evaluating running backs solely on career yards per carry average is pretty dubious, and throwing out some folks that don't jive with your conclusion is questionable as well. Even so, you only get 14th best, which is pretty darn close to average, and nowhere near superstar.

 

That list also doesn't include some other players that I can think of off the top of my head, i.e. LaGarrette Blount (5.0ypc career average), LeSean McCoy (4.7ypc career average), etc., and pretty much every team would take them over Fred Jackson and I'm sure there are more.

 

Just saying. Even in the best case of stat jiggering, we can get him up to maybe middle of the road. Eww.

 

 

 

Again, I'm not comparing Spiller and Jackson. Jackson might be 100x better than Spiller. Spiller probably stinks. But giving playing time to untested young players rather than declining veterans is a sound decision on a team that is not in a mode to compete for at least a couple years.

Your second point (which is valid… playing time to younger players) keeps getting obscured by your first point (which is not… that Jackson is a below average player).

 

After you're done naming 20 current NFL RBs who are better than Freddy, please explain to me how his "lower third" stats are adjusted or not by playing in a shyt offense and behind a shyt O-line?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Both Jackson and Levitre expressed confusion over a lack of clear communication from the coaching staff. Not a good sign. Plus, haven't all the Gailey boosters been talking up what a great culture he's instilling in the team, and how that leads to winning, etc.? I don't know about that. What kind of message does it send when Fred Jackson works hard and performs well, only to be benched for a #1 pick who continues to underperform? Now, if it winds up only being 1 preseason game that he gets benched for, Gailey can do some damage control, and probably everything will be fine. But if Spiller starts the regular season opener, what message does that send to the rest of the team?

People tend to forget these sorts of things when coaches change ball caps, but Gailey was greatly disliked by the players on the Cowboys when he was the head coach there. I distinctly recall Troy Aikman blasting him with both barrels.

[Mike in Syracuse]

i don't fault FJ at all. Is he underpaid. 100%. Should they work to get him extended to age 33 (add 1 year on the contract and bring hte avg up to 3-4mil per). That's a nice pay day for him and a good increase from just over 2mil/per. i'm not an expert, but if he renegotiate to a new 4 year deal at 16mil, thats almost double his current salary, still less than spiller, and friendly enough for a low-mileage 34yo running back. if you're worried, front load the deal. but I agree with him, we should renegotiate. He was in no position to barter last time, and this is likely his last chance to get paid. He's a heck of a RB, and he is going to lose out on millions if the Bills don't renegotiate or trade him. oh - and never win a championship....

 

I don't have a problem with Jackson wanting more money. I have a problem with him not having the guts to say so.

 

That said, I don't think there's a team in the league that is going to pay Fred Jackson $4M per season. Steven Jackson makes $5M per year and he's a freaking BEAST!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

There's a concept that you (the OP) should try to familiarize yourself with someday.

 

That concept is typically called "The Last Straw" concept.

 

Check it out sometime.

 

 

 

[LynchMob23]

It was actually a pretty generous deal at the time. We had Lynch, and I think the idea was that he was getting paid very well for a RB in the #1B or #2 role.

 

I'm not sure what sort of deal he wants now. He's an excellent RB, but no one is going to pay him more given his age.

 

Don't forget that at the time Marshawn was in trouble, and his agent threw out the "Bills don't really invest in character guys" zing into the media. And he was an ERFA so he had nowhere else to go other than back to the Bills. Compare him to say A train when he got here and I think he got paid a bit more.

[bills44]

It was actually a pretty generous deal at the time. We had Lynch, and I think the idea was that he was getting paid very well for a RB in the #1B or #2 role.

 

I'm not sure what sort of deal he wants now. He's an excellent RB, but no one is going to pay him more given his age.

 

Agree that the deal was generous at the time - he had started a grand total of 4 NFL games previously. Nbbody forced him to sign that deal - he could have signed a 1 or 2 year deal.

 

Also agree with the OP that FJ is being disingenuous with all of this "respect" nonsense....it's all about the coin. Just man up and say it.

[Mike in Syracuse]

There's a concept that you (the OP) should try to familiarize yourself with someday.

 

That concept is typically called "The Last Straw" concept.

 

Check it out sometime.

 

 

 

 

Are you sure you're not talking about a "Straw Man" concept?

Edited August 24, 2011 by Mike in Syracuse

[Rob's House]

He was signed as a backup for backup pay. He clearly outperformed that contract and doesn't have the miles most 30 yr old RBs have. They ought to give him a new contract in the 3 yr $12 mil range. I gotta think, given that his fundamentals are so sound, he'll still be a valuable contributor at 32, and it would send the kind of msg that would make guys more inclined to want to play in Buffalo.

[26TrapDraw]

Ok, Gailey needs to be careful with this situation. Fred Jackson without a doubt should be the number 1 running back on this team. The guy does everything well, runs hard between the tackles catches out of the backfield stays in and throws great blocks in the backfield etc. I read tonight that he doesn't know where he stands on this team. Really? Gailey needs to understand that Spiller is not a pound between the tackles kind of running back. If used correctly they can pack a great one two punch. Gailey needs to do some damage control. Fred Jackson is one of the most consisent if not best offensive player we have. Just Sayin

 

Now it looks like Fred just needed to be stroked and thats even worse. The one player on this team who has kept his mouth shut and gone out and performed now looks like a whiny baby who wants to ensure his yardage so he can visit the front office with his hand out this offseason for a new contract...oh wait

[Adam]

He was signed as a backup for backup pay. He clearly outperformed that contract and doesn't have the miles most 30 yr old RBs have. They ought to give him a new contract in the 3 yr $12 mil range. I gotta think, given that his fundamentals are so sound, he'll still be a valuable contributor at 32, and it would send the kind of msg that would make guys more inclined to want to play in Buffalo.

Free agents really won't care what Jackson gets paid