CountDorkula Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 All true. As a fan of the team, however, I would hope there is more in mind than simply cheap tickets and staying in town. Your argument to the extreme is...."I'm fine with 4-12 every year as long as the team is here and the tickets are cheap." That's a lifetime of pain brother... Not that I, and many others, wouldn't be drinking the kool-aid with you. Personally, I have slightly higher hopes for the Bills. We could have added a veteran O lineman this year (simply looking at our perceived biggest weakness) without huge cost and likely a more stable (if not better) product. In my extreme case, we could have overplayed Clabo up front, solidified a spot for 5-6 years and still had future cap room. Perhaps, however, I'm just jaded by 40 yrs of fandom and decade of disgust. Again, I admire Ralph in keeping the team here etc. He has been a VERY loyal owner....but not a very good one the last ten years. You have to separate loyalty from effectiveness though each are potentially admirable. At some point... he needs to do more than show up. He gets straight A's for attendance, but his class participation/grades the last decade has been horrible. I like the drafting of Nix so far but would like to have seen a bit more in trying to win now. Recognizing we are not a superbowl team is fine, but I'd like to actually believe we 'have a shot' most Sunday's. I've said before that every Sunday I think we will win. It's just getting harder to fool myself. Probably one of the best posts I have read here at TBD. Spot on accurate. Get my vote for post of the year. i just found myself a new quote(Oh, and I agree 110%)
thewildrabbit Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 That, and perhaps a year or two more, is the truth. That is what no one at One Bills Drive will admit to publicly, becuse who wants to buy tickets for a team that isn't even expected to win by the teams own coaching staff? When Nix took over, he said it'll take time, but he also said, it doesn't take as long as maybe people think. So, when Nix and Gailey took over, I think a fast assumption of a good turnaround would be 2 years - like the Jets were able to do, with veterans. Four years would be considered a long turnaround, I think. Well, this is year 2, and we're getting rid of Evans - the only explanation for which would be that he isn't going to be here when it matters most, or be in his prime when we need him, so let the young guys develop and get something (a 4th - which usually takes 2-3 years to start making a difference). Well, he still would be an asset for another two years, I'd say. I think all that we've seen gives us reason to believe Nix and Gailey are still counting on at least two more drafts before they are going to hold themselves accountable for winning. So, suck it up. Maybe we'll see some winning in 2013/14 when guys like Brady and Manning are on their way out, and maybe we don't have to actually beat them to get into the playoffs. On the contrary, Nix stated " we are not that far away" when he first took over. It was only after 5 straight loses that he changed that tune to "its going to take some time" Then at the bye after 0-8 the owner stated PP, its going to take pain and patience. If the Bills tank this season and finish with another 4-12 record or worse, I just don't see both Nix and Gailey keeping their jobs. But then again, Tom Modrak kept his job for almost a decade, it might take RW to pass before this team replaces anyone now. PS. only Buffalo Bills fans are content to wait 4 years to see if the team will win... yeah and we should all hope Rex Ryan and Bill Belichick will also retire by then
BillsFanM.D. Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 <He has been a VERY loyal owner....but not a very good one the last ten years.> There's that toronto thing..... There's also the perpetual option of completely losing the team. I think the Toronto deal had positives and negatives. Time will tell if it gave 'us' a broader, stronger foothold or merely first step out the door.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 On the contrary, Nix stated " we are not that far away" when he first took over. It was only after 5 straight loses that he changed that tune to "its going to take some time" Then at the bye after 0-8 the owner stated PP, its going to take pain and patience. I forgot how bad last season was. I went to wiki after reading your post and looked at each game. I completely forgot we started 0-8, many of those games being total blow-outs, and ended the season getting blown out by New England and the Jets.
GG Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 On the contrary, Nix stated " we are not that far away" when he first took over. It was only after 5 straight loses that he changed that tune to "its going to take some time" Then at the bye after 0-8 the owner stated PP, its going to take pain and patience. If the Bills tank this season and finish with another 4-12 record or worse, I just don't see both Nix and Gailey keeping their jobs. But then again, Tom Modrak kept his job for almost a decade, it might take RW to pass before this team replaces anyone now. PS. only Buffalo Bills fans are content to wait 4 years to see if the team will win... yeah and we should all hope Rex Ryan and Bill Belichick will also retire by then Maybe it just took Buddy some time to remember that he's at OBD, and having the GM title doesn't mean he has GM responsibilities? Work in progress
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I don't agree that the Evans move was simply a "cost cutting one" given they paid him a $1.5m bonus mere days before. Teams looking to cut costs don't usually pay those bonuses. The cost-cutting angle would make more sense to me if they traded him before roster bonus payment was due (they had up to five days after the new league year began). I think Evans wanted to be traded and the Bills obliged. He wasn't a big part of the offense, the Bills OLine doesn't exactly lend itself to the long ball, and he's getting to the point where time will catch up to him before he has a chance to win it all which he most certainly realized wasn't going to happen on this team for awhile. JMO. GO BILLS!!! No team wanted to trade for him until the Bills paid the bonus.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Have to give them 3 years but last yrs draft and th einability to supplement or improve the team thru free agents is a concern short and long term. What id Maybin becomes a force for the Jets in passing downs like he looked this weekend in Ryanville? Can we say our coaches did not put him in a position to succeed as an example? I think we have screwed with a lot of guys, especially Jackson now as a RB.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I don't agree that the Evans move was simply a "cost cutting one" given they paid him a $1.5m bonus mere days before. Teams looking to cut costs don't usually pay those bonuses. The cost-cutting angle would make more sense to me if they traded him before roster bonus payment was due (they had up to five days after the new league year began). I think Evans wanted to be traded and the Bills obliged. He wasn't a big part of the offense, the Bills OLine doesn't exactly lend itself to the long ball, and he's getting to the point where time will catch up to him before he has a chance to win it all which he most certainly realized wasn't going to happen on this team for awhile. Read jw's article today. Does this sound like it was Nix's idea, or The Man Behind the Curtain? Nix has provided varying explanations on the Evans trade. Initially, he described the move as one that will allow Buffalo's younger receivers to develop. A few days later, Nix attempted to put the trade behind him by telling The Associated Press that there were a lot of things that went into the deal that he couldn't elaborate on publicly. Nix didn't handle trade talks, leaving that job with Jim Overdorf, the team's salary cap specialist and senior vice president of football administration. What's unmistakable is how Evans' departure shed light on much of what's gone wrong. Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/08/buffalo-bills-still-work-progress#ixzz1VtDU2rjr
K-9 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 No team wanted to trade for him until the Bills paid the bonus. Are roster bonuses transferable? If the Ravens had traded for him before the 9th then they would have been on the hook for the roster bonus? GO BILLS!!! Read jw's article today. Does this sound like it was Nix's idea, or The Man Behind the Curtain? Nix didn't handle the trade talks? That's the first I've heard that and if true, then I'd have to agree entirely with the idea that Evans was moved for reasons not having to do with football. Why would Nix want to continue in that atmosphere? It's beyond me. GO BILLS!!!
thewildrabbit Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 While the draft is clearly their primary focus, there will be anywhere from 7-9 opening day starters on this team that were free agent acquisitions by Nix. See my post three above yours. I respectfully disagree on just about all points. Please list all of the NFL teams (besides Philly) who have rosters full of "top talent" free agents in their prime. The draft is the key. My point is that Nix has gone out and added veteran starters where needed while drafting what he hopes is his foundation. And although the OL is a huge and legitimate concern, it hasn't been "ignored" unless one remains hung up on not drafting guys in the first couple of rounds the last two years. They went after Clabo and he chose to remain in Atlanta. You can't win 'em all, and it doesn't set a good precedent to vastly overpay a RT. The Spiller pick remains questionable. Aside from that, however, how can one argue with the strategy of what has been done? I guarantee Nix/Gailey have a longer leash than two seasons. Well, The Patriots just brought in two players, Albert and Chad The Jets tried to obtain the highest paid DB in the game, I suppose they will be forced to make do with the second highest paid DB. What are the Bills, under the cap by...29 million? I can guarantee that if the Bills go win less or 2-14, that there is no leash
DC Grid Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6883286/tmq-says-money-motivates-losing-cheap-paying-wins Seems to hit a bit close to home...and I love how the cartoon depicts players with 'our colors.' This article is dead right. Ralph has ruined the team he helped build. For all the good he's done in Buffalo, it doesn't appear the Bills will be a contender till Ralph is in the ground....which is tragic.
jcbillsfan Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 The clock starts next year? Can I have you as my boss please!?! After a decade plus of ineptitude I would hope that you would have loftier goals! But that's the Pollyanna's war cry, "At least they are still the BUFFALO Bills!!!" can't blame buddy or chan for the last ten years. They are trying to build this thing correctly from the bottom to the top
thewildrabbit Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I forgot how bad last season was. I went to wiki after reading your post and looked at each game. I completely forgot we started 0-8, many of those games being total blow-outs, and ended the season getting blown out by New England and the Jets. Seems like many fans have short memories about last season, most only want to remember the wins and almost wins.Whats scary is that the Bills lost Lee Evans for the final 3 games, and although the Bills did beat the Dolphins they were literally destroyed by the Patriots and Jets. I gotta wonder how much the loss of Evans will hurt the offense this year. Then looking at all the injuries so far, many knocked out for the rest of the preseason. The O line getting shifted around, a guard playing LT... it could be another bad start this year.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Nix didn't handle the trade talks? That's the first I've heard that and if true, then I'd have to agree entirely with the idea that Evans was moved for reasons not having to do with football. Why would Nix want to continue in that atmosphere? It's beyond me. GO BILLS!!! This is just my speculation from what I know, have heard from very good sources, and have surmised,. I think that since Overdork handles all of the salary cap stuff and all contracts, he has power over Nix on some aspects of the typical GM job. Overdork has been here forever and he's Ralph's man (who happens to work from behind the curtain). We heard he has cut players before, like Troy Vincent and others, and has that power. So if he thinks he can save 7 mil total this year and next by jettisoning Evans, he can do it and Nix doesn't have much say. But Nix is not going to jeopardize his job, or the organization by publicly announcing it. It's my belief that Nix and gailey were very likely told before they came on board that Overdork holds that power, and there may be times when they are powerless over personnel decisions. It won't happen all the time but it could happen. That may be why a bigger name was not hired, maybe they wouldn't work under those conditions but that is total conjecture. I have not heard that anyway. It seems possible. I also believe that Gailey and Nix are both very qualified for their jobs but they likely weren't going to get this opportunity anywhere else but Buffalo. Nix very unlikely. Gailey probably not either. I think, rightfully, they thought to themselves can I live with this? And at their age, and what they want out of life and their work, they decided yes. Maybe if they were a little younger they could have taken a stand against it. Maybe if they had a little more power or opportunity they could have walked away. All I know is if I were either of them, I would have very likely taken the job like they did, knowing it wasn't ideal. But better than not having a GM job or NFL Head Coach job at all, and never realizing your real dreams. Again, that is just my reading on it. And I can't blame them. But it explains a lot. It also explains why, perhaps, they didn't offer Clabo more. Overdork does the contracts. All of them. I can't honestly say that I know how other NFL teams operate behind the scenes but I doubt any one of them has a bean counter making these kinds of football and personnel decisions as opposed to a GM and talent evaluator who learned how to work the cap and negotiate contracts. Overdork never was a talent guy or football guy, he is a glorified accountant. And he is making football decisions like getting rid of Lee Evans. It is no wonder we are where we are. It's possible that Nix and Gailey can overcome this handicap. But it surely makes it much harder. And not all of the grumbling by guys like Fred Jackson can be put on them. Look for the Man Behind the Curtain. Edited August 23, 2011 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog
GG Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 It also explains why, perhaps, they didn't offer Clabo more. Overdork does the contracts. All of them. I can't honestly say that I know how other NFL teams operate behind the scenes but I doubt any one of them has a bean counter making these kinds of football and personnel decisions as opposed to a GM and talent evaluator who learn how to work the cap and negotiate contracts. Overdork never was a talent guy or football guy, he is a glorified accountant. And he is making football decisions like getting rid of Lee Evans. It is no wonder we are where we are. Actually, I don't think he's an accountant but a lawyer. Anyhoo, I started a new thread, as this is a brand new topic that could get lost in this thread.
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 No team wanted to trade for him until the Bills paid the bonus. +1. The Bills eat $1.5 million to save another $2.5 million. Otherwise, they're out $4 million. Are roster bonuses transferable? If the Ravens had traded for him before the 9th then they would have been on the hook for the roster bonus? GO BILLS!!! Yes. When you trade for a player you trade for the future contract obligations too.
DefenseWins Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 so make sure yuo point the finger at the rest of the teams that are obviously CHEAP ASSES And they surely are as well... But as the article clearly points out, 2011 and 2012 are nothing more than opportunities for the owners of these franchises to make a killing financially... And as Jerry Sullivan's recent article pointed out, the Bills have not been spending up to their own "cap" for several years now... Is there ever a time NOT to try to improve your team? This article mentions that each team is getting $125M this year in TV money. The Bills are somewhere between 25-30 million or more, under this right now. That spells "NOT TRYING TO WIN"... I won't waste my money on a team that is NOT TRYING TO WIN... Maybe it makes YOU happy to stuff Ralph's pockets with cash... NOT ME...
pimp on da' net Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Curious how you see making the team weaker (the premise of this statement, I presume) is better for Buddy? If anything, I see it as the opposite...that Nix has big enough balls to make the hard decisions to dump the past mediocrity, even if it negatively affects the team's short-term results, in order to build a solid long-term foundation. If anything, Donahoe and Marv were the 'shifters' since they tried to dazzle fans with a magical slight of hand... NICE TRY...In a couple of year insert blank GM & Head Coach and we'll hear the same mumble jumble. Just for sh*t's and giggles, the Bills front office. Whatcha think who's accountable for this mess. http://www.buffalobills.com/about-us/front-office.html This is just my speculation from what I know, have heard from very good sources, and have surmised,. I think that since Overdork handles all of the salary cap stuff and all contracts, he has power over Nix on some aspects of the typical GM job. Overdork has been here forever and he's Ralph's man (who happens to work from behind the curtain). We heard he has cut players before, like Troy Vincent and others, and has that power. So if he thinks he can save 7 mil total this year and next by jettisoning Evans, he can do it and Nix doesn't have much say. But Nix is not going to jeopardize his job, or the organization by publicly announcing it. It's my belief that Nix and gailey were very likely told before they came on board that Overdork holds that power, and there may be times when they are powerless over personnel decisions. It won't happen all the time but it could happen. That may be why a bigger name was not hired, maybe they wouldn't work under those conditions but that is total conjecture. I have not heard that anyway. It seems possible. 100% in agreement with you... I also believe that Gailey and Nix are both very qualified for their jobs but they likely weren't going to get this opportunity anywhere else but Buffalo. Nix very unlikely. Gailey probably not either. I think, rightfully, they thought to themselves can I live with this? And at their age, and what they want out of life and their work, they decided yes. Maybe if they were a little younger they could have taken a stand against it. Maybe if they had a little more power or opportunity they could have walked away. All I know is if I were either of them, I would have very likely taken the job like they did, knowing it wasn't ideal. But better than not having a GM job or NFL Head Coach job at all, and never realizing your real dreams. Again, that is just my reading on it. And I can't blame them. But it explains a lot. It also explains why, perhaps, they didn't offer Clabo more. Overdork does the contracts. All of them. I can't honestly say that I know how other NFL teams operate behind the scenes but I doubt any one of them has a bean counter making these kinds of football and personnel decisions as opposed to a GM and talent evaluator who learned how to work the cap and negotiate contracts. Overdork never was a talent guy or football guy, he is a glorified accountant. And he is making football decisions like getting rid of Lee Evans. It is no wonder we are where we are. It's possible that Nix and Gailey can overcome this handicap. But it surely makes it much harder. And not all of the grumbling by guys like Fred Jackson can be put on them. Look for the Man Behind the Curtain.
FistingBot Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 My take is that Ralph isn't nearly as loyal to the city or people of Buffalo as many here claim he is. He has always been a shrewd businessman and he understands that there are substantial short-term fixed costs associated with moving to another market. He has a favorable (short-term) arrangement right now given the current lease deal, a yearly windfall from a game in Toronto, etc. For a guy born in October 1918, there is no long-term. ...Personally, I think if he was "loyal" to Buffalo he would have provided a transition plan to assure us that the team stays in Buffalo after his death. As we all know, he most certainly has not done that, which makes me hesitant to support the team financially right now. If I though the team might stay after he dies I'd be at my usual few games per year... but I cannot in good conscience line the pockets of Charles Montgomery Burns only to see my beloved team leave in a few years. That said, I really hope Terry Pegula develops a love for football very soon!
billsfan714 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Well 2 drafts into the Buddy and Chan show will produce one starter on opening day, Dareus. So they should have this thing turned around in 44 years.
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