San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I mean at what point are people going to hold them responsible for what's on the field? I see lots of mention how Jauron and Levy really screwed the pooch (and believe me, I thought Jauron was a terrible pick for a coach from day one), but you can't use the rebuilding excuse forever. The offensive line is utterly terrible, and yet nothing was done in this offseason to improve it. I recognize the focus on the defense, but the OL is the single most important building block in football. To ignore the need for improvement there is unconscionable. Dareus clearly has the potential to be a monster, but it is hard to cite any other quality draft pick from Nix in two years. Spiller was unneeded and may well be a bust to boot. Last year's team was worse than the year before, and this year's team is likely worse than last year's. Hard to argue the team is headed in the right direction. Good question. Nix was hired just under 20 months ago. Gailey was hired 19 months ago. I also don't think anyone would argue that they inherited a mess. I disagree with your last two sentences. Sometimes a team has to get worse before it can get better. They went 0-8 out of the gate and finished 4-4 last year. There's no question in my mind that they will win more games this year… so we disagree there. Personally, I think we should have a pretty good feel for the direction of this franchise AFTER the 2011 season is over… the new regime hasn't even started their 2nd season yet.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I mean at what point are people going to hold them responsible for what's on the field? I see lots of mention how Jauron and Levy really screwed the pooch (and believe me, I thought Jauron was a terrible pick for a coach from day one), but you can't use the rebuilding excuse forever. The offensive line is utterly terrible, and yet nothing was done in this offseason to improve it. I recognize the focus on the defense, but the OL is the single most important building block in football. To ignore the need for improvement there is unconscionable. Dareus clearly has the potential to be a monster, but it is hard to cite any other quality draft pick from Nix in two years. Spiller was unneeded and may well be a bust to boot. Last year's team was worse than the year before, and this year's team is likely worse than last year's. Hard to argue the team is headed in the right direction. Next years draft will be offense.
eball Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Significant free agent acquisitions (including players re-signed) under Nix/Gailey: Andra Davis -- starting ILB Dwan Edwards -- starting DE Shawne Merriman -- starting OLB Drayton Florence -- starting CB Scott Chandler -- starting TE Nick Barnett -- starting ILB Erik Pears -- starting RT David Martin -- starting/backup TE Chad Rinehart -- (perhaps) starting OG Kraig Urbik -- (perhaps) starting OG Bryan Scott -- backup S Tyler Thigpen -- backup QB Brad Smith -- superman That's potentially nine starters and several key backups acquired through means other than "building through the draft" folks. It's amazing what some people will take as gospel (i.e., Nix doesn't believe in free agency) when it has been thrown out there. In answer to the OP's question, I think Nix and Gailey pretty much "own" this team right now. The roster is a shell of what was left when Jauron/Levy exited. The success or failure of the team all depends on the rapid development of last year's and this year's draft picks.
Aussie Buffalo Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Good question. Nix was hired just under 20 months ago. Gailey was hired 19 months ago. I also don't think anyone would argue that they inherited a mess. I disagree with your last two sentences. Sometimes a team has to get worse before it can get better. They went 0-8 out of the gate and finished 4-4 last year. There's no question in my mind that they will win more games this year… so we disagree there. Personally, I think we should have a pretty good feel for the direction of this franchise AFTER the 2011 season is over… the new regime hasn't even started their 2nd season yet. Agree totally. Give the guys some time. It's not a quick fix situation we want it to be! I want the Bills to win the Superbowl, I wan the Bills to win playoff games but first of all we need a competitive team each and every week. Nix has said we are going to be Draft focussed. Free agents are not going to want to come to a team unless we pay above and beyond. We reportedly tried to do that to Clabo? But he chose to stay for around the same money with a Superbowl contender. A no brainer really for him? Was there any other OL free agent worth the money? I like Buddy and I like Chan. I love there passion! They are football people! They have had 2 drafts and one proper season. It's going to be a tough season to watch. But there are positives to look forward to. Have faith Bills nation.
thewildrabbit Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Significant free agent acquisitions (including players re-signed) under Nix/Gailey: Andra Davis -- starting ILB Dwan Edwards -- starting DE Shawne Merriman -- starting OLB Drayton Florence -- starting CB Scott Chandler -- starting TE Nick Barnett -- starting ILB Erik Pears -- starting RT David Martin -- starting/backup TE Chad Rinehart -- (perhaps) starting OG Kraig Urbik -- (perhaps) starting OG Bryan Scott -- backup S Tyler Thigpen -- backup QB Brad Smith -- superman That's potentially nine starters and several key backups acquired through means other than "building through the draft" folks. It's amazing what some people will take as gospel (i.e., Nix doesn't believe in free agency) when it has been thrown out there. In answer to the OP's question, I think Nix and Gailey pretty much "own" this team right now. The roster is a shell of what was left when Jauron/Levy exited. The success or failure of the team all depends on the rapid development of last year's and this year's draft picks. NFN but just about every one of those players is another teams cast off, and just because they are on the roster or starting doesn't mean they are worth a darn.Tyson Clabo would have been a top free agent. When I state Nix doesn't believe in building thru free agency, I kinda mean top talent...which would mean top money. Brad Smith does add something interesting to the offense, but will the wildcat work well with this O line? This almost seems like another Spiller deal, the less Fitz is on the field the less rhythm and continuity the starting players will have.JMO After the draft and before free agency I was really down that this staff basically ignored the O line again and posted my disappointment many times. I was met by a slew of kool-aid drinkers who think Gailey-Nix are the second coming of Levy- Polian, and can do no wrong. Even tho both men made many mistakes their first year. What gives me solace now is the fact that I see I'm not the only one disappointed, I see and hear from many many fans out there that are very dissatisfied by this staff and their moves, and or lack of moves in building up the offense. Trading away Lee Evans for a 4th rounder...jeez the Bills lost their best deep threat, and a former #1 draft pick for a maybe who may never make the team. After reading all the posts here by Bills fans concerned about the offense, and the line, I tend to think this duo have this year to better that 4-12 record, if they don't then I don't see them getting a 3rd year.
ganesh Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Merriman could be a good start. I think an offensive player with some swagger (perhaps Stevie emerges) would go a long way. Send guys to the probowl and they become friends with probowlers, guys see them on espn Sunday night.... Suddenly a guy like Barnett wants to play with lights out. Keep drafting well and you start winning. Culture takes time to change. When you have made up your mind that the draft is the only way to build the franchise (For Buddy and Chan), they better get their drafting right...Your players from 1st - 3rd round need to be solid contributors, not bench warmers...Spiller, Troupe and Carrington were huge disappointments in that regard...They couldn't beat out the players ahead of them in the depth chart. That does not help in your building the franchise. I hope this year will be different, but I do not have high hopes. Marcel will be a day 1 starter..no doubt about that...However, not sure if Williams or Sheppard will be able to see the field early on....And then will Troupe, Carrington make any big difference this year? If not then last years draft is wasted...
eball Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 When you have made up your mind that the draft is the only way to build the franchise (For Buddy and Chan), they better get their drafting right...Your players from 1st - 3rd round need to be solid contributors, not bench warmers...Spiller, Troupe and Carrington were huge disappointments in that regard...They couldn't beat out the players ahead of them in the depth chart. That does not help in your building the franchise. I hope this year will be different, but I do not have high hopes. Marcel will be a day 1 starter..no doubt about that...However, not sure if Williams or Sheppard will be able to see the field early on....And then will Troupe, Carrington make any big difference this year? If not then last years draft is wasted... While the draft is clearly their primary focus, there will be anywhere from 7-9 opening day starters on this team that were free agent acquisitions by Nix. See my post three above yours. NFN but just about every one of those players is another teams cast off, and just because they are on the roster or starting doesn't mean they are worth a darn.Tyson Clabo would have been a top free agent. When I state Nix doesn't believe in building thru free agency, I kinda mean top talent...which would mean top money. Brad Smith does add something interesting to the offense, but will the wildcat work well with this O line? This almost seems like another Spiller deal, the less Fitz is on the field the less rhythm and continuity the starting players will have.JMO After the draft and before free agency I was really down that this staff basically ignored the O line again and posted my disappointment many times. I was met by a slew of kool-aid drinkers who think Gailey-Nix are the second coming of Levy- Polian, and can do no wrong. Even tho both men made many mistakes their first year. What gives me solace now is the fact that I see I'm not the only one disappointed, I see and hear from many many fans out there that are very dissatisfied by this staff and their moves, and or lack of moves in building up the offense. Trading away Lee Evans for a 4th rounder...jeez the Bills lost their best deep threat, and a former #1 draft pick for a maybe who may never make the team. After reading all the posts here by Bills fans concerned about the offense, and the line, I tend to think this duo have this year to better that 4-12 record, if they don't then I don't see them getting a 3rd year. I respectfully disagree on just about all points. Please list all of the NFL teams (besides Philly) who have rosters full of "top talent" free agents in their prime. The draft is the key. My point is that Nix has gone out and added veteran starters where needed while drafting what he hopes is his foundation. And although the OL is a huge and legitimate concern, it hasn't been "ignored" unless one remains hung up on not drafting guys in the first couple of rounds the last two years. They went after Clabo and he chose to remain in Atlanta. You can't win 'em all, and it doesn't set a good precedent to vastly overpay a RT. The Spiller pick remains questionable. Aside from that, however, how can one argue with the strategy of what has been done? I guarantee Nix/Gailey have a longer leash than two seasons.
tennesseeboy Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I think Nix and Gailey own it...getting to the point nobody else will want it.
John Cocktosten Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 It was Nix's team right after he decided to take a scatback with his 1st pick in charge. Not sure if anyone noticed that none of the players that he chose in the 2010 draft will start on opening day either. Carrington looks to be the most promising although I'm not quite sure how much of a true impact player he will be. Great job Buddy, at least you picked Ed Wang to solve the horrible offensive line.
jcbillsfan Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 By this time next year the clock starts. The D seems pretty much rebuilt, by know means a great unit but some really nice pieces to build a great unit . You would have to think 2012 draft is going to be all about the O line. I am still on the bandwagon and will be through next season but after that show me the baby . It was Nix's team right after he decided to take a scatback with his 1st pick in charge. Not sure if anyone noticed that none of the players that he chose in the 2010 draft will start on opening day either. Carrington looks to be the most promising although I'm not quite sure how much of a true impact player he will be. Great job Buddy, at least you picked Ed Wang to solve the horrible offensive line. different day same tune
CBD Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 this is such a BS argument The Bills had 2 NFL caliber OL on their roster 2 years ago in Incognito and Scott - both of whom are light years better than what we have yet, the Bills chose not make them offers Incognito was a RFA who had no choice but to play for the Bills Scott was not good and was complained about ad nauseum when he did have to play in games for the Bills. He made the team and was forced into action due to injury for the Steelers. A guy like Pears is just as good as a guy like Scott, middle of the road NFL linemen. Funny how things like this get twisted and every player on every other team is better than the guys we have even though we had them and they were worse.
billsfreak Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Significant free agent acquisitions (including players re-signed) under Nix/Gailey: Andra Davis -- starting ILB Dwan Edwards -- starting DE Shawne Merriman -- starting OLB Drayton Florence -- starting CB Scott Chandler -- starting TE Nick Barnett -- starting ILB Erik Pears -- starting RT David Martin -- starting/backup TE Chad Rinehart -- (perhaps) starting OG Kraig Urbik -- (perhaps) starting OG Bryan Scott -- backup S Tyler Thigpen -- backup QB Brad Smith -- superman That's potentially nine starters and several key backups acquired through means other than "building through the draft" folks. It's amazing what some people will take as gospel (i.e., Nix doesn't believe in free agency) when it has been thrown out there. In answer to the OP's question, I think Nix and Gailey pretty much "own" this team right now. The roster is a shell of what was left when Jauron/Levy exited. The success or failure of the team all depends on the rapid development of last year's and this year's draft picks. If those are potentially 9 starters, then you answered the question "why do we always suck". That might be the biggest stretch I have ever seen on this forum is to list all those players as "Significant" free agent acquisitions. Did any of them with the exception of Smith even have interest from other teams? You might as well add Buster Davis to the list, since signing him enabled this brilliant front office the depth to trade our best wide receiver and locker room leader, if not our best offensive weapon period.
John Cocktosten Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 By this time next year the clock starts. The clock starts next year? Can I have you as my boss please!?! After a decade plus of ineptitude I would hope that you would have loftier goals! But that's the Pollyanna's war cry, "At least they are still the BUFFALO Bills!!!"
GG Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Wrong question. The right question is when do the fans start blaming the GM & coach for the owner's incompetence?
Ramius Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Wrong question. The right question is when do the fans start blaming the GM & coach for the owner's incompetence? Amen. This teams woes can be laid at the feet of the people above both Nix and Gailey. But ralphie wants you to blame the coach and GM, because then he can replace them every 3 years and all the fans will come back. Is it Nix and Gailey's fault that their hands are tied during FA because Ralph refuses to pony up for good FAs? Is it Nix and Gailey's fault that the owner and bean counters refuse to spend anywhere near close to the salary cap to field a competitive team? Is it Nix and Gailey's fault that we trade our best WR for nothing in what was essentially a cost cutting move? Is it Nix and Gailey's fault that the bean counters and owner refuse to give our best RB a nice pay raise for all he's done for the franchise? But people should go ahead and continually blame to coach and GM. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Edited August 23, 2011 by Ramius
eball Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 If those are potentially 9 starters, then you answered the question "why do we always suck". That might be the biggest stretch I have ever seen on this forum is to list all those players as "Significant" free agent acquisitions. Did any of them with the exception of Smith even have interest from other teams? You might as well add Buster Davis to the list, since signing him enabled this brilliant front office the depth to trade our best wide receiver and locker room leader, if not our best offensive weapon period. This thread is about whether Nix and Gailey "own" this team. My point is that they have tried to upgrade the roster through both the draft and the FA acquisitions I listed. You of all people should know that if there are financial restraints placed upon Nix by Ralph, there's not a whole hell of a lot he can do, right? By the way, Davis, Merriman, Barnett, Edwards, and Smith would/could start on a lot of NFL rosters.
KD in CA Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Wrong question. The right question is when do the fans start blaming the GM & coach for the owner's incompetence? +1 Good grief, 34 posts before someone mentions Ralph? I guess he really can fool some of the people all of the time. Nix and Gailey don't 'own' anything here -- literally or figuratively -- and never will.
Cash Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Significant free agent acquisitions (including players re-signed) under Nix/Gailey: Andra Davis -- starting ILB Dwan Edwards -- starting DE Drayton Florence -- starting CB Yep. Shawne Merriman -- starting OLBScott Chandler -- starting TE Waiver-wire pickups. I'll give you Merriman, though, because they "re"-signed him to a contract. Nick Barnett -- starting ILB For the record, Barnett was not offered a contract by his previous team. Legit free-agent signing, though. Erik Pears -- starting RTDavid Martin -- starting/backup TE Chad Rinehart -- (perhaps) starting OG Kraig Urbik -- (perhaps) starting OG All waiver-wire pickups or cut by their previous teams. On second thought, I'm not sure about Martin. But I'd be shocked if the Dolphins had offered him a contract when we signed him. Bryan Scott -- backup S Scott was acquired under Jauron. Did he sign a recent extension that I missed? Tyler Thigpen -- backup QBBrad Smith -- superman Both UFAs, neither offered a contract by their previous teams, although the Jets did theoretically want Smith back. That's potentially nine starters and several key backups acquired through means other than "building through the draft" folks. It's amazing what some people will take as gospel (i.e., Nix doesn't believe in free agency) when it has been thrown out there. In answer to the OP's question, I think Nix and Gailey pretty much "own" this team right now. The roster is a shell of what was left when Jauron/Levy exited. The success or failure of the team all depends on the rapid development of last year's and this year's draft picks. I think we all get that "building through the draft" doesn't mean you literally never acquire a player any other way. I mean, the numbers don't work. You usually get 7 or 8 draft picks a year, and the roster is 53. So yes, some players must be acquired through free agency. But minimum-salary guys and waiver pickups (except Merriman) don't really count. They're like the undrafted free agents of free agency. Yes, occasionally you'll find a Jason Peters, but most of them are just warm bodies. Here's my point: Of the players you listed, how many of them are good? How many are starting because they are average or better NFL starters, and how many are starting by default? I count 5 starters, including Brad Smith. Maybe I should give you Andra' Davis as well, so that's 6. But that's it. No one else can be considered a "significant" free agent acquisition. John McCargo wasn't a significant free agent acquisition for the Bucs, and Mansfield Wrotto isn't a significant free agent acquisition for the Bills. I don't care if Urbik or Rinehart wind up as starters, unless they wind up as good starters. Someone has to start at every postiion, whether you have anyone good at that position or not.
apuszczalowski Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 NFN but just about every one of those players is another teams cast off, and just because they are on the roster or starting doesn't mean they are worth a darn.Tyson Clabo would have been a top free agent. When I state Nix doesn't believe in building thru free agency, I kinda mean top talent...which would mean top money. Brad Smith does add something interesting to the offense, but will the wildcat work well with this O line? This almost seems like another Spiller deal, the less Fitz is on the field the less rhythm and continuity the starting players will have.JMO After the draft and before free agency I was really down that this staff basically ignored the O line again and posted my disappointment many times. I was met by a slew of kool-aid drinkers who think Gailey-Nix are the second coming of Levy- Polian, and can do no wrong. Even tho both men made many mistakes their first year. What gives me solace now is the fact that I see I'm not the only one disappointed, I see and hear from many many fans out there that are very dissatisfied by this staff and their moves, and or lack of moves in building up the offense. Trading away Lee Evans for a 4th rounder...jeez the Bills lost their best deep threat, and a former #1 draft pick for a maybe who may never make the team. After reading all the posts here by Bills fans concerned about the offense, and the line, I tend to think this duo have this year to better that 4-12 record, if they don't then I don't see them getting a 3rd year. And if they signed Clabo, he would have been a castoff from Atlanta. ALL FA's are Castoffs from other teams because the team didn't feel they were worth re-signing at the price the wanted Actually, IIRC Thigpen was tendered an offer by the Dolphins before the lockout, but because of the new rules, he became an UFA when the lockout ended. Smith was still wanted by the Jets, he just took the offer from the Bills cause it was more then what the Jets would have been willing to pay when they were trying to win the Ashomugha (sp?) sweepstakes
finknottle Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 If I have my dates right, Nix and Gailey own this team about 18 months after the Obama Administration admits it owns the economy.
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