Nix: Offensive line depth Bills’ main concern

[Orton's Arm]

He's had two drafts and two complete off seasons. Do you think enough has been done?

 

Nobody expects everything at once unless you are me posting on a message board. But, let's give the line more than lip service. Nix isn't satisfied with the depth...OK. I'm not satisfied with 2 or 3 of the starters (since we don't know what's happening with the mix there), don't even mention depth to me.

 

This team's achilles heel is the O-line. They restocked the D-line & LB (both had to happen), they added a bunch of DBs. They ignored the o-line. It's not that they haven't done enough...they haven't done anything (unless you consider late round draft picks, waiver claims and street FAs as something).

 

 

Sorry...did I mention too much coffee?

From a drafting standpoint, most of what Nix has done seems to have been legitimate, or at very least plausible. The second rounder on Troup is legitimate if he continues to become a solid NT. This year's second rounder on a CB is legitimate if he becomes a good starter. The Bills had a need at CB, and getting a good starter from an early second round pick is good value.

 

My main concern is obviously the Spiller pick. That's a huge investment in the RB position, with no obvious need to invest any early picks there at all. If Spiller becomes the next Thurman Thomas then you could justify it. But odds seem to be against that happening.

 

Nix inherited a team with very few real answers on offense or defense. The long-term solutions on offense included Stevie Johnson, maybe Levitre and Wood, and possibly Fred Jackson. (Though age is a concern there.) On defense, the long-term answers he inherited consisted of Kyle Williams, and arguably some talent at safety such as George Wilson.

 

That's less talent than I'd expect an expansion team to have after its first draft and full offseason. When a team has this many holes, it's hard to address them all in just two years.

[Coach Tuesday]

Apparently roster space (regardless of position) is at a high enough premium that it's not even worth a flyer at veteran minimum.

 

I can actually buy that...

 

They have at least 2 open spots right now.

[Kelly the Dog]

This part I'm not sure I agree. I don't see why we can't sign a stopgap for one season until we get more draft picks this April, when we seek the long-term answer.

You can. if you think you have championship possibilities you strongly consider it. Most great lines are built over time, and have players who played together for a few years in the same system. If you bring in a vet for one year, you get a little better that year, and you retard the growth of your young guy you think has a chance. It's not a clear cut decision, but rather a 55-45 proposition. I don't think we need a stop gap for one year. We need a veteran back-up as insurance, or a guy who can start for the next 3-4 years.

[....lybob]

I know they wanted Spiller and I think they targeted him. I think they both love him and still think he is going to be great. The point is, Trent Williams and Russell Okung were the consensus top two OTs in the draft. The Bills liked Demetrius Bell as a prospect. When they looked at who was going to be available at that pick, Spiller was their highest rated player (whether you or me or anyone agrees with that ranking). The next highest rated linemen after Okung and Williams was Anthony Davis (I forgot about him in my earlier post) and Bulaga. Both of them had question marks on them and were not as highly regarded at OT as Spiller was at RB. I am saying that IF Okung or Williams would have been surprisingly available when the Bills drafted, not only would Nix and Gailey have strongly considered either one, they may have indeed drafted one ahead of Spiller.

 

I'm not sure, either way, whether they had Spiller rated higher than those two. It was probably very close, and it's possible they had Spiller rated higher.

I wonder if they thought Spiller was going to be the next Chris Johnson so far he's not even the next Reggie Bush.

[LabattBlue]

The notion that the defensive front 7 and OL can't be addressed in the same off season is mind boggling. The OL was a problem when Cooter was hired, and IT IS STILL A PROBLEM today.

 

The day they sent this guy back to being a scout(or retirement) and promote Whaley, will be a step in the right direction for the first time in years....and even then you still have the three headed jackass(Wilson, Overdorf & Littman) acting as an obstruction towards the future.

 

 

Until then, this organization will continue to be in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

Edited August 17, 2011 by LabattBlue

[The Big Cat]

The notion that the defensive front 7 and OL can't be addressed in the same off season is mind boggling. The OL was a problem when Cooter was hired, and IT IS STILL A PROBLEM today.

 

The day they sent this guy back to being a scout(or retirement) and promote Whaley, will be a step in the right direction for the first time in years....and even then you still have the three headed jackass(Wilson, Overdorf & Littman) acting as an obstruction towards the future.

 

 

Until then, this organization will continue to be in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

 

Why is it mind boggling?

 

Are you of working age? Do you understand the concept of a 24 hour day and a 40-80 work week cycle?

 

You're aware that the NFL went through the longest lockout in league history this year?

Edited August 17, 2011 by The Big Cat

[LabattBlue]

Why is it mind boggling?

 

Are you of working age? Do you understand the concept of a 24 hour day and a 40-80 work week cycle?

 

You're aware that the NFL went through the longest lockout in league history this year?

So explain to me why both sides of the ball could not be addressed in a single offseason? They had time to sign a GIMMICK PLAYER for the offensive side of the ball, but not the OL either via the draft, FA or trade?

 

[edit] Last time I looked Gailey and Nix were still employed and working during the lockout.

Edited August 17, 2011 by LabattBlue

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

The notion that the defensive front 7 and OL can't be addressed in the same off season is mind boggling. The OL was a problem when Cooter was hired, and IT IS STILL A PROBLEM today.

 

The day they sent this guy back to being a scout(or retirement) and promote Whaley, will be a step in the right direction for the first time in years....and even then you still have the three headed jackass(Wilson, Overdorf & Littman) acting as an obstruction towards the future.

 

 

Until then, this organization will continue to be in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

 

I agree. There's nothing stopping them from fixing it all in one off-season. We have the money.

 

My sense is that there was no real off-season plan in place, except let's see what we can do in the draft.

[CodeMonkey]

My sense is that there was no real off-season plan in place, except let's see what we can do in the draft.

Nix has said all along he intends to build through the draft and only supplement with FAs.

Not sure why people have such a hard time believing him.

You might not like or agree with the plan, but there is a plan.

[PDaDdy]

My link

 

"...Nix expressed confidence in the Bills starting five linemen, but wasn't sure whether he'll have to wait until the off-season to add proven depth..."

 

It took him 3 weeks into camp to just now realize this?!?!?

 

Better late than never. The former denial could have been a PR move to take attention away from the fact that we let things get so bad and got rid of a probowler. The problem has become so obvious now that no amount of PR is going to sway even the most delusional and optimistic of fans. Some will still believe that our line is just fine and it just needs time to develop but in my opinion we have given it plenty of time. Some of the supposed youth we have that we are waiting to develop is actually a 27 year old still trying to figure out the LT position.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Nix has said all along he intends to build through the draft and only supplement with FAs.

Not sure why people have such a hard time believing him.

You might not like or agree with the plan, but there is a plan.

 

Maybe you're right; just doesn't seem like a real "plan" to me.

 

You go into the draft and take your BPA. That's great.

 

But you're going to have to fill your holes in the meantime. That's where it helps to have a plan (at least a post-draft plan), rather than Nix lamenting that the o-line is a problem 3 weeks before the season starts, and that we'll have to wait a few more years before they'll get better players.

[The Big Cat]

So explain to me why both sides of the ball could not be addressed in a single offseason? They had time to sign a GIMMICK PLAYER for the offensive side of the ball, but not the OL either via the draft, FA or trade?

 

[edit] Last time I looked Gailey and Nix were still employed and working during the lockout.

 

 

I agree. There's nothing stopping them from fixing it all in one off-season. We have the money.

 

My sense is that there was no real off-season plan in place, except let's see what we can do in the draft.

 

You know what, fellas. It's 2011. By now I should have a teleportation device and I should live in a castle that floats. I should have a dog that speaks English and takes care of all my personal administrative affairs.

 

I shouldn't have to eat, there should be an app for that.

 

And I should joing a jai a lai team that practices on the moon.

 

Oh, and the Bills should have signed and drafted all that talent that's readily available this off season.

 

You dig?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

You know what, fellas. It's 2011. By now I should have a teleportation device and I should live in a castle that floats. I should have a dog that speaks English and takes care of all my personal administrative affairs.

 

I shouldn't have to eat, there should be an app for that.

 

And I should joing a jai a lai team that practices on the moon.

 

Oh, and the Bills should have signed and drafted all that talent that's readily available this off season.

 

You dig?

 

I fear like there's some sarcasm in your post.

 

In all seriousness, it's not like we wanted the team to go out and go crazy in FA. I was hoping they would have a solid plan in place to identify 1-2 good, mid-tiered offensive linemen whom they wanted to sign and go after them. And if they couldn't get those guys, have some Plan B guys identified.

 

I don't get the sense that they actually had that plan, or any plan.

 

Instead, what I am getting is that they felt like they were set with Ubrik as a starting RG and with Wrotto, Howard, and Wang as reliable depth guys, and now they realize that they were wrong.

[The Big Cat]

I fear like there's some sarcasm in your post.

 

In all seriousness, it's not like we wanted the team to go out and go crazy in FA. I was hoping they would have a solid plan in place to identify 1-2 good, mid-tiered offensive linemen whom they wanted to sign and go after them. And if they couldn't get those guys, have some Plan B guys identified.

 

I don't get the sense that they actually had that plan, or any plan.

 

Instead, what I am getting is that they felt like they were set with Ubrik as a starting RG and with Wrotto, Howard, and Wang as reliable depth guys, and now they realize that they were wrong.

 

And I'm telling you that your "feelings" and what you "sense" is entirely bunk if it's based on the notion that 1-2 good, mid-tiered offensive lineman were available. Show me who these guys were and that we failed to make a play for them and I'll agree that you might be on to something.

 

Otherwise, you're just wishing upon a star, my good man.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

And I'm telling you that your "feelings" and what you "sense" is entirely bunk if it's based on the notion that 1-2 good, mid-tiered offensive lineman were available. Show me who these guys were and that we failed to make a play for them and I'll agree that you might be on to something.

 

Otherwise, you're just wishing upon a star, my good man.

 

You're right--there's some speculation on my part. But, even now, if you look at the FA market, there are guys out there that we certaintly could make a play for, and there have been no reports that we've tried or even considered trying. Even with their shortcomings, I would at least bring guys like Brian Waters, Leonard Davis, and Max Starks, in for visits. You can even start someone like Waters, and suddenly Ubrik becomes a decent back-up, rather than a bad starter for you.

 

I'm just puzzled with the mentality that re-building must be a 3-year plan. It's just not true anymore.

[Jauronimo]

I'm just puzzled with the mentality that re-building must be a 3-year plan. It's just not true anymore.

It's true if you don't want to be rebuilding again in 5 years. The current strategy is one similar to Pittsburgh's. When was the last time they were in a rebuilding mode? When have they ever made big splashes in FA? The Stillers are a perennial playoff team due to great player evaluation and sound fiscal management. They build from within and when players leave in FA, they have a capable replacement already waiting on the roster. Its all homegrown talent, which takes a while to stock up on and do it right.

 

That's what Nix is trying to do here. Not put together a 2 or 3 season glimmer followed by another rebuild. Sustainability.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Jauronimo

[Coach Tuesday]

And I'm telling you that your "feelings" and what you "sense" is entirely bunk if it's based on the notion that 1-2 good, mid-tiered offensive lineman were available. Show me who these guys were and that we failed to make a play for them and I'll agree that you might be on to something.

 

Otherwise, you're just wishing upon a star, my good man.

 

Fine, I'll bite, but this is a strawman. The Eagles signed Ryan Harris and the Giants signed Stacy Andrews. Those are two organizations that know what they're doing, and I'd take either/both of those players.

 

I suppose now you'll tell me that neither of them would've come to Buffalo, or that they had injury risks that make them undesirable, etc. etc.

[The Big Cat]

You're right--there's some speculation on my part. But, even now, if you look at the FA market, there are guys out there that we certaintly could make a play for, and there have been no reports that we've tried or even considered trying. Even with their shortcomings, I would at least bring guys like Brian Waters, Leonard Davis, and Max Starks, in for visits. You can even start someone like Waters, and suddenly Ubrik becomes a decent back-up, rather than a bad starter for you.

 

I'm just puzzled with the mentality that re-building must be a 3-year plan. It's just not true anymore.

 

Why is this puzzling you? Is there somebody making that assertion?

 

And what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise? Have their been cases around the league since the Free Agency Era began that suggest that teams in the exact same personnel and scheduling situation as Buffalo have done it any better?

[Bill from NYC]

Fine, I'll bite, but this is a strawman. The Eagles signed Ryan Harris and the Giants signed Stacy Andrews. Those are two organizations that know what they're doing, and I'd take either/both of those players.

 

I suppose now you'll tell me that neither of them would've come to Buffalo, or that they had injury risks that make them undesirable, etc. etc.

 

Here is another wrinkle......

http://www.drafthistory.com/years/2011.html

 

In round 2 of this draft, we selected a corner at #2. Nix said that he had numerous trade down offers in every round.

Defensive backs were selected at #18 and #28.

Offensive Tackles were taken at 14, 17, and 31. Pitt and Indy each took one by the way.

 

My point? How much did they have to love Williams? It seems like they could have addressed OT AND CB in round 2 with a trade down.

 

I hope that Williams can live up to all of this.

[Kelly the Dog]

Fine, I'll bite, but this is a strawman. The Eagles signed Ryan Harris and the Giants signed Stacy Andrews. Those are two organizations that know what they're doing, and I'd take either/both of those players.

 

I suppose now you'll tell me that neither of them would've come to Buffalo, or that they had injury risks that make them undesirable, etc. etc.

Ryan Harris is out with an injury, hasn't practiced in a week and won't play this week

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4457/ryan-harris