Mr. WEO Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Nix is right. You can't fix everything at once. I think people fail to see there are several things going on at once as well. But I also don't think we can just bring in any vet just because he may be a better short term back up than Wang, or possibly better than Erik Pears (because even if they were better before, they are available now for a reason, usually a good one, and a health one). We need to FIX the line, which means for good. Not patch it. The guys they bring in better be able to play for 3-4 years, not 1-2. They cannot be just patchwork guys that take the place of all the developing guys, because then we are stuck for the next 10 years doing the same thing. They also must fit the kind of player that Nix and Gailey are bringing in to change the culture of this team, meaning bigger, nastier, smarter, self-motivated leaders. That eliminates a lot of players who may seem like good fits. But the upside is I love the attitude of the new players they are bringing in and I think it will help up for years to come when we are an entire team of guys like that. That's part of what Nix means by you can't fix everything at once. They are looking both short term, medium term and long term to turn around this franchise, and are really only in the beginning of the second year. I don't follow this logic. If a guy can come in for 2 years and play well (or better than what we have)--that's not as good as endlessly churning thorugh guys like Pears, Hangartner, Urbik, etc to "see" if they pan out? If you can get a better player today, you get him. If he only lasts a year or 2, so what--this is the NFL, turnover is part of the way it works. Draft a guy next year--fine, but what good does that do us this year or next? Why must we wait on this? Pears, Rhinehart, Urbik are nastier, smarter, more self motivated--than who?
Defend Greece Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Pears, Rhinehart, Urbik are nastier, smarter, more self motivated--than who? maybin?
The Big Cat Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Quick follow up: May be someone should call Nix and tell him where this stable of available upgrades exists. I'd be curious as to its whereabouts also.
hondo in seattle Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 My link "...Nix expressed confidence in the Bills starting five linemen, but wasn't sure whether he'll have to wait until the off-season to add proven depth..." It took him 3 weeks into camp to just now realize this?!?!? I'm not sure why we think we only now figured this out? I don't think his every thought, his every conversation, ends up in the press.
Meathead Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Everybody has offensive line problems. Baltimore, Chicago, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Indy... nyj ... i guarumptee the bills will be adding some new ol bodies when the cuts start coming. whether they will find anything good remains to be seen but they will again try the recycle route, they have to
Green Lightning Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 If you can get a better player today, you get him. If he only lasts a year or 2, so what--this is the NFL, turnover is part of the way it works. Draft a guy next year--fine, but what good does that do us this year or next? Why must we wait on this? Right, didn't we just do that at ILB? Barnett is a two year - at most - signing. Why is the OL so different? We can find a guy who's better than who we have to school the project OL we have and to keep Fitz from getting killed. Jesus, just do it.
BringBackFlutie Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 nyj ... i guarumptee the bills will be adding some new ol bodies when the cuts start coming. whether they will find anything good remains to be seen but they will again try the recycle route, they have to I'd like to have the NYJ's O-Line problems
Coach Tuesday Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 I'm not sure why we think we only now figured this out? I don't think his every thought, his every conversation, ends up in the press. Well, he told the press about a month ago that he was happy with the offensive line and that in his view, it was better than everyone else thinks.
thewildrabbit Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 My link "...Nix expressed confidence in the Bills starting five linemen, but wasn't sure whether he'll have to wait until the off-season to add proven depth..." It took him 3 weeks into camp to just now realize this?!?!? No, that statement should read it took him 2 drafts and 2 free agency periods and 3 weeks into camp to just realize this?!?!? The fan base here has expressed more concern over the O line since Nix / Gailey were hired. Even the media asked Nix before his first draft and both Nix & Gailey stated at that time that the O line was a "priority"! Then after the draft he stated that because the way the draft "unfolded' he was unable to obtain any decent line players....but he managed to draft a "waterbug" scatback #1 and D linemen #2-#3-#6 Honestly, this just sounds like a bunch of crap to appease the fan base who know better, and have known better. So when Fitz gets his a$ handed to him this year and gets put on IR the Bills will announce they are drafting a QB.... and its starts all over again. Same crap different year, different faces save the man behind the curtain pulling all the strings. I feel bad for all the devoted fans out there that love the Bills, spend their hard earned money to support the team and keep getting hoodwinked by a charlatan year after year. Snake oil anyone? "'Propaganda"" is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself. C'mon guys, it doesn't take 3-6 years to rebuild a team. Atlanta- Kansas City-Miami- Tampa Bay all recent rebuilds, and now this year it will be Detroit and St Louis. Even in Buffalo Bills history it didn't take this long for Chuck Knox or Bill Polian. In two years those teams had the team turned around from 2-14 / 3-11and those teams were far worse then what Nix - Gailey encountered when they first arrived Remember Nix's line...""we are not that far away"" Before Knox in 77, 3-11. First year 5-11 got better, second year 7-9, third year 11-5 Before Polain became GM in 85, 2-14 First year 4-12 got better, second year 7-8, third year 12-4 Nix Gailey took over from Jauron- Fewell 6-10, Nix-Gailey first year got worse 4-12 not better
eball Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Well, he told the press about a month ago that he was happy with the offensive line and that in his view, it was better than everyone else thinks. And both he and Gailey have still said they're comfortable with the ones...it's the twos and threes that scare them schitt-less. The ONLY thing I get out of these quotes from Nix is an acknowledgment and understanding of what it takes to build a successful football team from top to bottom -- and I never doubted he already knew that. It's not as if he "just" figured out the depth on the OL sucks, but he's been working on repairing an even bigger atrocity -- the defense. The guys they've brought in on the OL are not UDFAs or late round duds. Both Urbik and Rinehart were 3rd rounders. Pears was a previous starter. Hairston is a 4th round pick. This process takes time, and as others have pointed out, it's not as if there are top notch O-linemen just sitting around out there waiting for the phones to ring.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Right, didn't we just do that at ILB? Barnett is a two year - at most - signing. Why is the OL so different? We can find a guy who's better than who we have to school the project OL we have and to keep Fitz from getting killed. Jesus, just do it. Barnett is the perfect example of the guy you can and should get. He is 30 (not old) and signed for three years. They just arent easy to find. Brian Waters is the kind of guy you can't get, he is old, and would likely last 1-2 years. He would be better in the short term but he would take the place of a young guy and you would be stuck with an aging stopgap and one less guy to develop. We already have a veteran back-up in Hangartner. if you want to replace him with a better veteran player like Waters on a two-year deal I would be all for that.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 My favorite part: Clady was tossed out there (By the author I beleive) as an attempt to improve the line, but, is there no one else? Should a GM "focus" on only one area of a team in the draft? Were there not options via the draft and FA outside of Clady that could have improved this line (at least from a 'depth' standpoint if not starter)? Is anyone out there happy with our starting O-line? Should Nix be concerned with more than depth? Did improving the Bills O-line occur to any of you prior to the second week of TC? Has anyone else had too much coffee today? I had the same reaction as you. In today's NFL, not only are you able to but you must be able to re-build in a single off-season. I don't buy the idea that it takes 3 years to fix all the problems. In 3 years, we're going to have other problems to fix. The good re-builds are done via the draft, a few key free agents, and stop-gap players. Nix could have, and still can, go out and get 3 to 4 stop-gap olinemen who can dramatically improve the line and our line depth this year. Leonard Davis, Trai Essex, Max Starks, Stitchcomb, McKinnie, Flozell Adams are all free agents and could be had for 1 or 2-year deals. They all have question marks, but so what? It's pre-season--take a flyer on one of these guys and hope they work out.
Coach Tuesday Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 And both he and Gailey have still said they're comfortable with the ones...it's the twos and threes that scare them schitt-less. Fine, but they've already tried to upgrade at RT, they're tinkering with the LG spot and it's plain as day that Urbik isn't ready.
jahnyc Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Not sure how a team can go into a season with such a significant weakness (the o-line) and expect to have any real success. It should have been addressed through the draft and free agency. To wait another year until the Bills begin to address the o-line is ridiculous. Even if they draft players next year for the o-line, they may not contribute immediately and I doubt the Bills will spend big money to bring in quality starters in free agency (plus few will likely be available). Does this mean that the earliest we could have a decent o-line is 2013 (assuming we draft well)?
The Big Cat Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Oh, for Christ's sake: Not sure how a team can go into a season with such a significant weakness (the o-line) and expect to have any real success. The O-line is not the weakness. THE DEPTH is the weakness. It should have been addressed through the draft and free agency. To wait another year until the Bills begin to address the o-line is ridiculous. And at what point during draft and free agency do we address the DISASTROUS defense? 169 rushing yards per game. Have we all suddenly forgotten this? EIGHT! EIGHT !@#$ING 200 YARD RUSHING GAMES THIS DEFENSE ALLOWED LAST YEAR. Also, what does it mean to "address?" Were they meant to magically conjure all this available talent for this year? Really. Give me an analytical breakdown of offensive lineman that were available during the draft that would start THIS year, but that we didn't draft because we were busy targeting the defense (heaven forbid). Even if they draft players next year for the o-line, they may not contribute immediately and I doubt the Bills will spend big money to bring in quality starters in free agency (plus few will likely be available). Does this mean that the earliest we could have a decent o-line is 2013 (assuming we draft well)? Again, where are these players and who are these teams letting talented OLineman walk? And who are all these rookie Oline studs from the 2011 draft that we totally missed out on? JESUS. Does anybody on this board think before they start issuing demands?
Beerball Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Is Clady a FA? Not being a smartazz. Clabo? I blame the coffee!
apuszczalowski Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 I had the same reaction as you. In today's NFL, not only are you able to but you must be able to re-build in a single off-season. I don't buy the idea that it takes 3 years to fix all the problems. In 3 years, we're going to have other problems to fix. The good re-builds are done via the draft, a few key free agents, and stop-gap players. Nix could have, and still can, go out and get 3 to 4 stop-gap olinemen who can dramatically improve the line and our line depth this year. Leonard Davis, Trai Essex, Max Starks, Stitchcomb, McKinnie, Flozell Adams are all free agents and could be had for 1 or 2-year deals. They all have question marks, but so what? It's pre-season--take a flyer on one of these guys and hope they work out. They are also either really old or have some serious injury concerns, or grossly overweight w/ attitude issues. How are these guys going to "dramatically improve the o-line this year" from IR? Taking a flyer on these guys would also require the bills to have to cut someone from the roster that they want to look at. They are not building for this year, they are building for the future. They don't want to have one good year and then have to re-build half the team again. They want a team thats going to have a solid core that can maintain success over a long span. This unfortunatly takes some time and patience, which bills fans don't have. and enough about how this o-line is going to get Fitz killed. He made it through last season just fine, and he performed well enough with it that he has won over fans who now believe shouldn't even have to compete for the starting job. Also, that quote from Nix is nothing new, he said it before training camp started, that the o-line was a concern of theirs.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Not sure how a team can go into a season with such a significant weakness (the o-line) and expect to have any real success. It should have been addressed through the draft and free agency. To wait another year until the Bills begin to address the o-line is ridiculous. Even if they draft players next year for the o-line, they may not contribute immediately and I doubt the Bills will spend big money to bring in quality starters in free agency (plus few will likely be available). Does this mean that the earliest we could have a decent o-line is 2013 (assuming we draft well)? We had a terrible D that we addressed in the draft
Beerball Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Nix is right. You can't fix everything at once. I think people fail to see there are several things going on at once as well. He's had two drafts and two complete off seasons. Do you think enough has been done? Nobody expects everything at once unless you are me posting on a message board. But, let's give the line more than lip service. Nix isn't satisfied with the depth...OK. I'm not satisfied with 2 or 3 of the starters (since we don't know what's happening with the mix there), don't even mention depth to me. This team's achilles heel is the O-line. They restocked the D-line & LB (both had to happen), they added a bunch of DBs. They ignored the o-line. It's not that they haven't done enough...they haven't done anything (unless you consider late round draft picks, waiver claims and street FAs as something). Sorry...did I mention too much coffee?
Dr. K Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Nix is right. You can't fix everything at once. I think people fail to see there are several things going on at once as well. First, I think our OL stinks, so I am not just giving Nix a pass. I think we need probably three new players out of eight. I think we need a starting RT so Pears can be a decent/solid back-up. I think we need a back-up LT instead of Wang. And I think we need to find a starting RG, whether he is on this roster or not. But I also don't think we can just bring in any vet just because he may be a better short term back up than Wang, or possibly better than Erik Pears (because even if they were better before, they are available now for a reason, usually a good one, and a health one). We need to FIX the line, which means for good. Not patch it. The guys they bring in better be able to play for 3-4 years, not 1-2. They cannot be just patchwork guys that take the place of all the developing guys, because then we are stuck for the next 10 years doing the same thing. They also must fit the kind of player that Nix and Gailey are bringing in to change the culture of this team, meaning bigger, nastier, smarter, self-motivated leaders. That eliminates a lot of players who may seem like good fits. But the upside is I love the attitude of the new players they are bringing in and I think it will help up for years to come when we are an entire team of guys like that. That's part of what Nix means by you can't fix everything at once. They are looking both short term, medium term and long term to turn around this franchise, and are really only in the beginning of the second year. Gailey needs to see if Urbik, Rinehart and Pears are starting material in this league. You only get that by watching them practice and playing in games. It's too early to give up on them (one pre-season game). Granted, it has to happen soon. Levitre will likely get his starting job back. I wouldn't doubt if Rinehart starts over Urbik but both of those guys need to play with the ones in real games to see if they can cut it (which I believe is part of the strategy of Levitre's demotion which had several factors). I expect a veteran cut to be brought in to play tackle, but if there isn't a clear player who fits what they're trying to do, it's likely not going to happen. We don't need a player like MacKinnie even if he is right now, slightly better than a guy we have. I think Nix went after Clabo and we didn't offer him as much money as it would have taken, which may not have been all Nix's call. But the fact is, it's not nearly as simple as "this guy is better than our guy" because he played better before on a different team in a different system in a different year feeling different health-wise asked to do different things. Not to mention that Levitre is already back with the ones, and will be splitting time there for now. http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2011/08/17/levitre-back-with-1s/ Thank god for some sanity here. Great post.
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