Doc Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 There is no way the Bills only offered Clabo $5M/year, given that he seriously considered that offer versus Atlanta's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) Hold up there San Jose Bills Fan We are just people talking about a hobby. It's OK to be critical. You don't have to praise failure........and no matter how you cut it the past ELEVEN YEARS have been thoroughly unsuccessful. Every single one of them. Edited August 6, 2011 by Beerball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 sometimes it takes years to create a masterpiece... I'm probably one of the youngest people on this board, but I recall the steps New England took between my 11th birthday-to the present day! Same goes for Pittsburgh... Same goes for Indy... Same goes for Green Bay... Same goes for San Diego.... All I'm saying is...I want to see a team that wins for a chunk of years...not a patch work team of overpriced veteran free agents! Similar to what I've seen from the Redskins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 sometimes it takes years to create a masterpiece... I'm probably one of the youngest people on this board, but I recall the steps New England took between my 11th birthday-to the present day! Same goes for Pittsburgh... Same goes for Indy... Same goes for Green Bay... Same goes for San Diego.... All I'm saying is...I want to see a team that wins for a chunk of years...not a patch work team of overpriced veteran free agents! Similar to what I've seen from the Redskins... Many successful teams build from the lines out. The Bills haven't adequately addressed the O-line & until they do the team will be hampered. They don't take gimmic players in the first round (Maybin, Spiller). The teams you mention also have one other thing in common...franchise QBs. Ben R. is the worst of the bunch that you've mentioned and I'd take him in a heartbeat. Fitz is good. I like Fitz. Fitz isn't in the same 'league' as those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Many successful teams build from the lines out. The Bills haven't adequately addressed the O-line & until they do the team will be hampered. They don't take gimmic players in the first round (Maybin, Spiller). The teams you mention also have one other thing in common...franchise QBs. Ben R. is the worst of the bunch that you've mentioned and I'd take him in a heartbeat. Fitz is good. I like Fitz. Fitz isn't in the same 'league' as those guys. Beerball is wise...... Many here are justifying the "we're building through the draft" by pointing to teams like Green Bay. They might want to check out their draft picks and compare them to ours first. It's like me saying "I'm practicing hard at golf so I can be the next Tiger Woods!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Who is this magical free agent player that was going to transform the Bills into a great team? Buddy says he believes in building through the draft..not that every draft pick will be perfect. It amazes me the unrealistic expectations of fans. What is this magical strategy to turn the Bills around in a single year or even two years? GET EVERY FREE AGENT?! That has worked for so many teams.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Many successful teams build from the lines out. The Bills haven't adequately addressed the O-line & until they do the team will be hampered. They don't take gimmic players in the first round (Maybin, Spiller). The teams you mention also have one other thing in common...franchise QBs. Ben R. is the worst of the bunch that you've mentioned and I'd take him in a heartbeat. Fitz is good. I like Fitz. Fitz isn't in the same 'league' as those guys. I like Fitz also, he showed a lot of heart last season. He may not be an "elite" franchise QB ATM, but some teams have gotten to the SB and won them with guys just like him, Trent Dilfer comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 From all indications, Clabo is not a jerk, but just the opposite. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that he very well may have come to Buffalo even though he very much wanted to stay in Atanta. If the Bills offered him substantially more money, he may have to take it. There were many reports that said he was ready to sign with the Bills because the gap was large between the two teams, and the Falcons were not offering enough. He felt disrespected by them. There are also stories that they upped their offer at the end, and Clabo took it. He easily could have felt if they offer me 5 mil a year, I will take a lot less and keep my family here and play for a contender. If they offer less than 5 mil, and Buffalo offers 6-7, I take the Bills offer. To me there is no real evidence that he was just using the Bills as leverage and would always stay in Atlanta, and there was a lot of evidence that the Bills offered him more, probably a lot more, he was leaning toward coming to Buffalo, and the Falcons increased their offer enough for him to stay for less. i hear you, and this is entirely possible. i still think that a 29 year old guy who hasn't had a huge payday up to now is nutty to take a $10 million dollar hit (over the course of the contract). maybe that's just me though. i also think it's just as likely that the buddy -- who announced that the bills weren't going to be "big spenders" in free agency -- didn't offer the $7 million/year cited in that article. i wouldn't for a minute, however, lay claim to clabo's thoughts the way other posters have. i neither presume a mind-meld with clabo, nor claim to definitely know the details of the bills offer. my opinion is based on the fact that they didn't get him, buddy's own words and typical human behavior. that said, if the bills really wanted him, they had the cap room to blow atlanta's offer away. this gaughan post seems a reasonable assessment of how it went down: http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2011/07/clabo-deal-not-crazy-money.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 i hear you, and this is entirely possible. i still think that a 29 year old guy who hasn't had a huge payday up to now is nutty to take a $10 million dollar hit (over the course of the contract). maybe that's just me though. i also think it's just as likely that the buddy -- who announced that the bills weren't going to be "big spenders" in free agency -- didn't offer the $7 million/year cited in that article. i wouldn't for a minute, however, lay claim to clabo's thoughts the way other posters have. i neither presume a mind-meld with clabo, nor claim to definitely know the details of the bills offer. my opinion is based on the fact that they didn't get him, buddy's own words and typical human behavior. that said, if the bills really wanted him, they had the cap room to blow atlanta's offer away. this gaughan post seems a reasonable assessment of how it went down: http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2011/07/clabo-deal-not-crazy-money.html Apparently not too many other teams valued Clabo that highly, considering he only took $5M/year. And for the Bills to a finalist along with Atlanta, they needed to offer Clabo a premium to get him away from Atlanta and to a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 11 years. But do you make him the highest-paid RT in the game, at $7M/year? After just 1 Pro Bowl as an injury replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Apparently not too many other teams valued Clabo that highly, considering he only took $5M/year. And for the Bills to a finalist along with Atlanta, they needed to offer Clabo a premium to get him away from Atlanta and to a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 11 years. But do you make him the highest-paid RT in the game, at $7M/year? After just 1 Pro Bowl as an injury replacement? The reason there weren't more teams chasing Clabo is that most teams in the NFL "build through the draft" However those teams spend premium picks on OL, speciafically OTs, because they know it will ocst an arm and a leg to buy a good one in FA. Except the Bills, who continually claim to be building thru the draft, but have not drafted any of the cornerstones needed for a successful franchise. Thus, they are left to manufacture stories about chasing guys like Clabo, while continuing to rely on practice squad rejects and street free agents. ONE premium pick on an OT since Polian almost 20 years ago left tells you everything you need to know about the Bills commitment to the OL (and any seriousness in their offer to Clabo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 we don't have long to wait to see if this guy is more then soundbites at this point His first year at GM 3 DL players @ #2 #3#6 and none of them break the starting lineup on a horrid 4-12 team--- CJ Spiller picked 9th in the first round, 26 carries-122 yards, and posters here complained about Poz & Donte. .....Is this kid another Maybin-McCargo? He did spend a lot of his time on the bench right next to those two Free agency last year, Cornell Green-Dwan Edwards-Andra Davis-Reggie Torbor.... That screaming I keep hearing isn't from that elusive baby, its from the fans complaining about not signing Clabo or Boss . According to that JS article the Bills offered Clabo the same as they paid Langston Walker in 07, jeez they couldn't offer a proven pro bowl RT more then what they gave Walker? Anyway, the season is right around the corner and we will see if any of this years additions (besides Darius) will make an impact. I'll start believing in the man when when I finally see that baby! As a Bills GM Buddy has inherited the pressure of over a decade of previous losing. During that time, there were years we went out and spent money on guys. I don't think it is a total reluctance to bring in FA's - but, there was a point made earlier, that bringing in other team's practice squad guys and cast offs from other teams is virtually the same as bringing in FA's on a philisophical level, with the exception that we aren't paying top dollar. I fear that our tackles will be the ruin of this season for us. But, I'm hoping I'm wrong and that Gailey and Buddy are better at recognizing that stuff (although, persuing Clabo and Colon were signs that the FO might think as we do - I would really like to know why we didn't land those guys). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 The reason there weren't more teams chasing Clabo is that most teams in the NFL "build through the draft" However those teams spend premium picks on OL, speciafically OTs, because they know it will ocst an arm and a leg to buy a good one in FA. Except the Bills, who continually claim to be building thru the draft, but have not drafted any of the cornerstones needed for a successful franchise. Thus, they are left to manufacture stories about chasing guys like Clabo, while continuing to rely on practice squad rejects and street free agents. ONE premium pick on an OT since Polian almost 20 years ago left tells you everything you need to know about the Bills commitment to the OL (and any seriousness in their offer to Clabo) So you're telling me that all 30 other teams have "built through the draft" and don't need a Pro Bowl RT for just $5M/year? Come on, I think we both know that's hogwash. Which means that no other teams were willing to commit more than $5M/year to him, hence the reason the Bills' (it had to be) higher offer and Atlanta's $5M/year offer were his final two choices. If the Bills' offer was just $5M/year, I seriously doubt it would have been considered a finalist. And if it was, that means that no other teams were willing to offer even $5M/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 So you're telling me that all 30 other teams have "built through the draft" and don't need a Pro Bowl RT for just $5M/year? Come on, I think we both know that's hogwash. Which means that no other teams were willing to commit more than $5M/year to him, hence the reason the Bills' (it had to be) higher offer and Atlanta's $5M/year offer were his final two choices. If the Bills' offer was just $5M/year, I seriously doubt it would have been considered a finalist. And if it was, that means that no other teams were willing to offer even $5M/year. I'm pretty sure the Bills just manufactured the story that they were pursuing Clabo so that the fans would think they really care when they really couldn't care less. That's gotta be it. There are no other plausible explanations. I'm just glad there are so many around here that aren't fooled by their attempts to mollify the stupid, clueless, kool-aid drinking apologists. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I'm pretty sure the Bills just manufactured the story that they were pursuing Clabo so that the fans would think they really care when they really couldn't care less. That's gotta be it. There are no other plausible explanations. I'm just glad there are so many around here that aren't fooled by their attempts to mollify the stupid, clueless, kool-aid drinking apologists. GO BILLS!!! What's more amazing is the Bills were able to get Clabo in on it, talking about how the Bills were the finalists with the Falcons. It was a brilliantly executed ruse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 What's more amazing is the Bills were able to get Clabo in on it, talking about how the Bills were the finalists with the Falcons. It was a brilliantly executed ruse! Yeah, but planting that seed about the Seahawks being interested too was a stroke of genius. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I don't know the answer to this, but someone out there does...how do the income tax rates compare between the two? $10M isn't always $10M. Hey Beerball! Just read this thread. Thanks for all the good links you provide. The following info might help answer your question. The links below address comparative state income tax rates from the perspective of retirees, but they still contain info about the range of marginal state income tax rates for each state - - but for a precise answer you would need to look at the tax rate tables for each state and not just the ranges. I haven't done that, but it is highly likely that most of Clabo's salary would be taxed at any state's highest marginal rate. Georgia: http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/retiree_map/index.html?map=7&state_id=11&state=Georgia'>http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/retiree_map/index.html?map=7&state_id=11&state=Georgia INCOME-TAX RANGE 1% – 6% New York: http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/retiree_map/index.html?map=7&state_id=33&state=New York INCOME-TAX RANGE 4.0% – 8.97% The answer may not be that straightforward, though. It turns out that professional athletes pay income taxes in all of the states where they play their games. If you really want to get into the details, check out these articles: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/12/sports/sp-jock-tax12 If opening day is the best day of the year for professional athletes, then April 15 -- tax day -- is probably the worst. Especially now that 20 of the 24 states with franchises in at least one of the four major pro leagues -- the NFL, NBA, NHL and Major League Baseball -- have laws that require visiting athletes to pay state income tax for each game they play there. * * * * Athletes are taxed based on "duty days" they spend in each state. In baseball, there are approximately 181 "duty days," meaning a player earning $1.81 million would make $10,000 each duty day. Therefore, if that player's team had three games in California, he would be responsible for taxes on $30,000 of income. Finally, there may be ways for an athlete to arrange the timing of his signing bonus so that it is taxed by a state with a lower or no state income tax - - Bills' players may have an incentive to maintain their permanent off-season residence in a lower tax state (Schobel comes to mind; TX has no state income tax). See: http://zzrllp.com/28.htm [this article appears to be fairly old but also has a more comprehensive analysis of how athletes are taxed] “Signing” bonuses are not subject to apportionment if they meet all of the following conditions: the bonus is not conditional on playing any games for the team; is payable separately from any other compensation; and is not refundable. What constitutes a true “signing” bonus has often been a matter of disagreement between taxpayers and taxing authorities. Taxing authorities routinely challenge taxpayer “signing bonus” assertions, often prevailing under the ruling that the bonus related to all provisions in the contract, not just the act of signing. If not a “signing bonus”, the income is apportioned as part of regular wages. A true signing bonus is apportioned as part of wages and is generally taxed to the athlete’s state of residence. Probably way too much information, but hey, be careful what you ask for! P.S. If any fellow Bills fans are interested in the relative tax burden (of all kinds) imposed by various states, you can click on any state in the USA map at the link below and see a detailed breakdown - - updated as of 6/11. It's especially useful for anybody thinking about leaving the cold Buffalo winters after retirement. http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/retiree_map/index.html?map=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I'm not bashing Nix because so far he's done a good job IMO. And this is only his second offseason. This is a young team with some talent and potential. That said, his inability to address the right tackle spot worries and frustrates me. It's a serious problem that will continue to plague this team. NFL coaches aren't stupid, they'll stack the left side of our line and dare us to run off tackle to the right. They should've overpaid Clabo. I don't think he ever intended to come here and was just leveraging us against the Falcons, but if we offered a lot more than the 5 years/$25 mil he got, maybe he would've came for the money. I keep hearing people say this.....how do you know the bills didn't offer more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Not all 7-9 or 6-10 teams are created equal. The team Buddy inherited had only two long-term answers in its front-7: Kyle Williams and Poz. Everyone else was either getting on in years, not very good, or both. There were also problems with the defensive secondary. On offense, there was (and is) no long-term answer at QB, no TE, and holes on the OL. Not many building block players there except for Levitre, Wood, Stevie Johnson, and maybe Bell. Compare that to the Packers. Arguably, Aaron Rodgers is playing better than any other QB in the league. That alone is worth much more than everything Nix inherited from the previous regime. With Aaron Rodgers plus whatever other good, young players the Packers may have had during their 6-10 season, they obviously had a much better core than the one Nix inherited. When people keep bring up Aaron Rogers I have to laugh.....the kid sat for YEARS before the packers considered starting as their QB.....he had such a luxery of getting his NFL feet under him and not having a team lean on him. if we drafted Aaron Rogers and did in Buffalo what Green Bay did with him there would be pitchforks and fire at one bills drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Hey Beerball! Just read this thread. Thanks for all the good links you provide. The following info might help answer your question… Probably way too much information, but hey, be careful what you ask for! LOL… don't ever change buddy… except you might really want to try getting a bit more sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 When people keep bring up Aaron Rogers I have to laugh.....the kid sat for YEARS before the packers considered starting as their QB.....he had such a luxery of getting his NFL feet under him and not having a team lean on him. if we drafted Aaron Rogers and did in Buffalo what Green Bay did with him there would be pitchforks and fire at one bills drive I think they considered Favre their starting QB for those years. If the Bills "did" what GB did with him (sit him behind Bills starter Favre), no one would be complaining to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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