Fox Merriman article plus a repeat of Nix' philosophy

[spartacus]

http://atlanta.sbnat...ills/in/1705137

 

GO BILLS!!!

pretty useless link

 

" Some had pegged the Buffalo Bills offer as being in the neighborhood of $7 million per year, so it sounds like Clabo gave the Falcons a significant hometown discount. Makes that extra negotiating time seem worth it after all."

 

 

the "source" could have been a poster on a message board

 

not to mention there is no detail regarding guaranteed money or structure of the deal

 

The Bills have become expert at floating these stories of how they aggressively were pursuing certain free agents and coaches to placate the fans. the bottom line is they failed at upgrading the OL and again are expecting practice squad rejects and street free agents to produce.

 

Good thing they got 3 mobile QBs to dodge the blitzers and absorb the punishment.

 

 

 

 

 

[BillsVet]

[http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/132595-fox-merriman-article-plus-a-repeat-of-nix-philosophy/page__view__findpost__p__2206017[/url]

 

To respond SJBF:

 

The ability to remain objective should not be confused with being negative. And I vehemently disagree that having the audacity to criticize a franchise that has promised more and delivered less is somehow what "losers" do. This is argument suppression at its finest.

 

It's one thing for someone to criticize, be wrong, and go away. Problem is, the criticizers seem to be more right than wrong and each season affirms it's the non-objective crowd that either goes on a board hiatus or manufactures excuses for why things didn't go well.

 

I want to see it on the field before I heap praise onto an organization, regardless of who the GM or HC is, that has been without any significant success going back more than a decade. If that's negative, well, so be it.

[snamsnoops]

Maybe we wouldn't have to b*tch and complain about signing someone if Nix chose an Offensive tackle before the 4th round. Instead he chose to go with a scatback in the first when you already had two very capable RBs on the roster.

 

The Superbowl winning Packers have selected OTs in the 1st round the last two drafts and had a 7th round rookie RB start in the playoffs and Super Bowl.

 

The Bills were 7-9 in '08 before Buddy took over. The Packers were 6-10. How quickly can you rebuild?

 

Their is Buddy's philosophy and then there is a winning philosophy.

well wasnt the Packers o line terrible n the running game not so good. 24th in rushing n allowed 38 sacks. I dont get ur point. Also A Rogers is one of the best in the buisness @ getting rid of the ball quickly.

 

Last year was also year 1 of rebuildin a horrible team, way way worse situation than Green Bay’s

[John Cocktosten]

well wasnt the Packers o line terrible n the running game not so good. 24th in rushing n allowed 38 sacks. I dont get ur point. Also A Rogers is one of the best in the buisness @ getting rid of the ball quickly.

 

Last year was also year 1 of rebuildin a horrible team, way way worse situation than Green Bay’s

So your point is, don't take a scatback with the first pick of your regime? Agreed!

 

[http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/132595-fox-merriman-article-plus-a-repeat-of-nix-philosophy/page__view__findpost__p__2206017[/url]

I want to see it on the field before I heap praise onto an organization

This.

[K-9]

pretty useless link

 

" Some had pegged the Buffalo Bills offer as being in the neighborhood of $7 million per year, so it sounds like Clabo gave the Falcons a significant hometown discount. Makes that extra negotiating time seem worth it after all."

 

 

the "source" could have been a poster on a message board

 

not to mention there is no detail regarding guaranteed money or structure of the deal

 

The Bills have become expert at floating these stories of how they aggressively were pursuing certain free agents and coaches to placate the fans. the bottom line is they failed at upgrading the OL and again are expecting practice squad rejects and street free agents to produce.

 

Good thing they got 3 mobile QBs to dodge the blitzers and absorb the punishment.

 

Useless link or not, I was asked to find one and I did. Perhaps you can help Harvey in finding a link, useless or not, saying that the Bills offered Clabo the same money they gave Langston Walker. That was his claim.

 

Got any links supporting your claim that the Bills deliberately float stories of pursuing FAs just to placate fans?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[CookieG]

 

I don't think anybody is challenging the veracity of what Buddy says

 

 

Oh, I do, sue me. Much of what he says is GM-speak, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

 

"we want to build through the draft", yet 5 of the likely defensive starters on D are FA acquisitions, 4 of whom were signed by Buddy. That includes 4 of the front 7.

 

Name me a GM not named Snyder who doesn't want to build through the draft? You take what he says with a grain of salt.

 

His whole "we'll take a guy in the draft or FA'cy if he's better than the guy we have" concept is kinda nuts as it is applied to the offensive line.

 

No free agents in the last 2 years are better than Eric Pears and Craig Urbik?

No one was available in the draft was better than those two? Really?

 

Again, these "philosophies" are GM speak, it is a nice aspiration, but it is more of a guide than it is a hard and fast rule.

 

I swear, if Buddy said something like..."We don't really want to be a playoff team, playoff teams are usually arrogant jerks", you'd have people saying.. "hey Buddy says we don't want to be a playoff team, what are you expecting? Quit your whining."

[Thisistheyear]

we don't have long to wait to see if this guy is more then soundbites at this point

 

His first year at GM 3 DL players @ #2 #3#6 and none of them break the starting lineup on a horrid 4-12 team--- CJ Spiller picked 9th in the first round, 26 carries-122 yards, and posters here complained about Poz & Donte. .....Is this kid another Maybin-McCargo? He did spend a lot of his time on the bench right next to those

 

Free agency last year, Cornell Green-Dwan Edwards-Andra Davis-Reggie Torbor....

 

 

That screaming I keep hearing isn't from that elusive baby, its from the fans complaining about not signing Clabo or Boss . According to that JS article the Bills offered Clabo the same as they paid Langston Walker in 07, jeez they couldn't offer a proven pro bowl RT more then what they gave Walker?

 

 

Anyway, the season is right around the corner and we will see if any of this years additions (besides Darius) will make an impact.

 

I'll start believing in the man when when I finally see that baby!

 

26 carries? 122 yards? Do you just make up stuff? If you had looked up the stats, you could have made a good point and actually been credible. Or are you too lazy to open a new window?

Edited August 6, 2011 by Thisistheyear

[thewildrabbit]

[http://forums.twobil...ost__p__2206017[/url]

 

To respond SJBF:

 

The ability to remain objective should not be confused with being negative. And I vehemently disagree that having the audacity to criticize a franchise that has promised more and delivered less is somehow what "losers" do. This is argument suppression at its finest.

 

It's one thing for someone to criticize, be wrong, and go away. Problem is, the criticizers seem to be more right than wrong and each season affirms it's the non-objective crowd that either goes on a board hiatus or manufactures excuses for why things didn't go well.

 

I want to see it on the field before I heap praise onto an organization, regardless of who the GM or HC is, that has been without any significant success going back more than a decade. If that's negative, well, so be it.

Well said

 

 

 

Freedom of speech, its what makes this country so great! Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak freely without censorship!

 

 

Its almost like some fans here take it personally when someone talks about the business mistakes made by men who were hired to do a particular job. Both Gailey and Nix are getting paid millions to do their jobs, and us fans have the right to scrutinize their every move and hold them accountable, even if the owner of the team doesn't care to. Which is exactly what happens in every other fan forum for every team.

 

Right now both Nix and Gailey have their work cut out this year to prove their critics wrong. I'll admit I'm one of them as both these men made many serious errors and blunders in their first year. Nix himself said it best when he stated that the fans don't want to hear about the labor pains, just show me the baby. Well, we are still waiting for the baby!

 

To the posters here who think I am always so negative, to bad you missed the 200+ posts where I am defending Ryan Fitzpatrick, and even Gaileys decision to keep him as the starter

Edited August 6, 2011 by Harvey lives

[DrDawkinstein]

"CORNELL GREEN!! WAHHHH"

 

.__________>/^\<

| ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '|__\

| WAMBULANCE - | i<<

I_______________|I

..""(@)"""""""""(@)"............

 

 

 

Brad Butler QUIT on this team late. Nix did what he could, in the first months of a COMPLETE rebuild, to try to fill that additional hole with a veteran. It didnt work out. The OTs in last year's draft were highly suspect. **** happens. ****ty players happen. I dont think any one of us understand the work that goes into rebuilding and replacing ~50 out of 53 players. While also replacing most of the personnel department at the same time. Modrak and Guy ring a bell, anyone? They are now gone.

 

Its easy to sit here and criticize in hindsight. Id like to see any of us dummies actually making calls and dealing with agents and players and coaches and scouting departments and our owner. Buddy was tasked with rebuilding not only the team, but the entire FO.

 

So far, imo, Nix has made more moves that I like, than moves that I hate.

 

Criticizing year 1 is simply foolish. Nix is a football guy, likes big, mean football players, and is doing what he can to acquire those players. Let's see what happens.

 

 

(and FYI, take it from someone in Atlanta or read the articles about Clabo's family situation, and you will know that he was NEVER going to leave Atlanta. The Bills were used as a bargaining chip, nothing Buddy could do about that.)

Edited August 6, 2011 by DrDareustein

[Dirtbag]

Lots of players do not want to change teams - accustomed to coaches, system, players. area, etc. Life of contract does not mean much especially since different schemes have different injury potentials. The Falcons are dome team playing in a softer division and he may be counting playoff money as well.

 

What seems more likely to you is your predetermined opinion not FACTS. Oh and rarely are reports substantiated; players, agents and teams leak them for various reasons not always honest ones.

 

yeah, i went all rogue and decided to post my opinion on a message board. crazy.

 

i'm not sure what you're in disagreement with. in my original post, i noted the suspect nature of leaked reports. it sounds like you agree.

 

regarding your first comment, i never said guys don't have preferences regarding teams. still, i find it difficult to believe that he took $2 million/year less to stay with atlanta. isn't this a 29 year old player whose previous contracts hovered in the $1-2 million/year range in total?

 

it's more likely to me that we probably offered him a comparable deal and he chose to stay home. this suggests that buddy 1.)isn't all that desperate to find a tackle and/or 2)doesn't think it's worth overpaying for clabo.

 

and yes, the above comments are based strictly on my opinion. the only FACT we have as of now is that he chose to stay with atlanta. i could totally be wrong -- the dude might have such a deep, passionate love for the greater atlanta school system and community that the $2 mill/year he's losing in b-lo is but a pittance.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Dirtbag

[DrDawkinstein]

yeah, i went all rogue and decided to post my opinion on a message board. crazy.

 

i'm not sure what you're in disagreement with. in my original post, i noted the suspect nature of leaked reports. it sounds like you agree.

 

regarding your first comment, i never said guys don't have preferences regarding teams. still, i find it difficult to believe that he took $2 million/year less to stay with atlanta. isn't this a 29 year old player whose previous contracts hovered in the $1-2 million/year range in total?

 

it's more likely to me that we probably offered him a comparable deal and he chose to stay home. this suggests that buddy 1.)isn't all that desperate to find a tackle and/or 2)doesn't think it's worth overpaying for clabo.

 

and yes, the above comments are based strictly on my opinion. the only FACT we have as of now is that he chose to stay with atlanta.

 

 

well, thats like, your opinion man.

 

here are some facts:

 

Clabo and his new wife are from nearby Knoxville. As are their families.

They adopted Tyson's brother's two young children last year.

They have been getting the family stabilized and setting a foundation in Atlanta.

 

$5mil/year is a lot of money. Enough to ignore some higher offers if you have finally JUST gotten your family situation established.

 

They were never going to uproot everything and move 1200 miles to a town they have never been to. Clabo used the Bills offer to milk as much money out of the Falcons as he could for his family. It was a nice idea and dream for the Bills and Bills fans, but it simply wasnt going to happen.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Clabo-family-suddenly-fullGetting-married-adopting-his-niece-and-nephew-give-Falcons-lineman-new-outlook-on-life-in--76678570

 

And lets not forget to factor in the difference between the cities and teams as well. Clabo has a serious chance to be a starter on a Super Bowl team this year.

 

For some players, its not JUST about the numbers on the checks. Kinda refreshing to see that still happens. Too bad it worked against the Bills in this case.

 

Move on.

Edited August 6, 2011 by DrDareustein

[Beerball]

Freedom of speech, its what makes this country so great! Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak freely without censorship!

 

Its almost like some fans here take it personally when someone talks about the business mistakes made by men who were hired to do a particular job. Both Gailey and Nix are getting paid millions to do their jobs, and us fans have the right to scrutinize their every move and hold them accountable, even if the owner of the team doesn't care to. Which is exactly what happens in every other fan forum for every team.

 

Right now both Nix and Gailey have their work cut out this year to prove their critics wrong. I'll admit I'm one of them as both these men made many serious errors and blunders in their first year. Nix himself said it best when he stated that the fans don't want to hear about the labor pains, just show me the baby. Well, we are still waiting for the baby!

 

To the posters here who think I am always so negative, to bad you missed the 200+ posts where I am defending Ryan Fitzpatrick, and even Gaileys decision to keep him as the starter

Harvey...we get it. Our front office does not deserve a free pass for their mistakes. The Spiller pick was a mistake no matter how his career turns out. The team ignored the o-line in last year's draft and they've done it again. That hurts the team in the short run. The long run hasn't been determined yet.

 

There, now that I've said that I don't feel the need to repeat it over and over and over. People have their beliefs and they won't change, or they will change slowly over time.

 

And in case the freedom of speech line is aimed at the board moderators...read the TOS.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

That's what people seem to be forgetting on this board. Tha Pats did have a ton of key Free Agent vets starting on their team when they were winning. Antwan Smith RB, Wiggins TE, M. Copmton OG, B Hamilton DE, A. Pleasnt DE, Vrabel, LB Bryan Cox LB, Roman Phipher LB, T Buckley CB were all Free agents who started in '01.

 

When you say that haven't won a SB since they started getting aggressive. When they got Welker and Moss they scored the most points and broke every NFL passing record. Would you take a 16-0 season? Seriously SJF.

 

As far as Ocho and Haynesworth not working out, people said the same thing about two degenerates, Moss and Dillon, that turned out to be great in a Pats uniform.

 

 

Free will.

Thanks for the information. I didn't recall all of those free agents during the Patsies* Super Bowl era.

 

[http://forums.twobil...ost__p__2206017[/url]

 

To respond SJBF:

 

The ability to remain objective should not be confused with being negative. And I vehemently disagree that having the audacity to criticize a franchise that has promised more and delivered less is somehow what "losers" do. This is argument suppression at its finest.

 

It's one thing for someone to criticize, be wrong, and go away. Problem is, the criticizers seem to be more right than wrong and each season affirms it's the non-objective crowd that either goes on a board hiatus or manufactures excuses for why things didn't go well.

 

I want to see it on the field before I heap praise onto an organization, regardless of who the GM or HC is, that has been without any significant success going back more than a decade. If that's negative, well, so be it.

BillsVet, I'm objective too. But I'm not negative. Many of the very objective posters here (Doc, New Era, Kelly, JohnC, eBall, and MANY others) criticize the team but also ACKNOWLEDGE when the team does something good.

 

What I object to are some posters who are a constant drumbeat of criticism.

 

The Bills have won 47% of their games in their history… only 25% of last year's games but 4-4 in the last 8 games.

 

Is it impossible to see that there are some signs of encouragement? Or that some of the players are good players?

 

Do you think that one should be completely dismissive of a team simply because they have a losing record? Is it not important to recognize those players/coaches who distinguish themselves in this context? Is it not important to identify those players who are good and/or show promise as the team moves forward with year 2 of their rebuild?

 

Does the fact that the team has a losing record automatically and unequivocally mean that there is nothing GOOD worth discussing?

 

Some of the negative posters here would have a lot more credibility if they actually balanced out some of their negativity with some "objective" positive takes.

 

And look at your line above which I bolded. Are you saying that the negative people who have been fueled with being able to "win" their arguments that the Bills suck have higher character than those who are unconditionally supportive of the team?

People like myself who support the team are not objective and either slink away or manufacture excuses for the team?

 

Really?

 

What do you think would happen to all the negative posters if the Bills went on a 6 game winning streak? Where were all the negative posters when the Bills opened the season 5-1 in 2008? Didn't those criticizers go on a "board hiatus" too? Or did they change their tune?

 

Your comment certainly indicates that you think that us "Kool Aid drinkers" have lower character than you "criticizers."

 

That's kinda funny. But not quite.

Edited August 6, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Rockinon]

[http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/132595-fox-merriman-article-plus-a-repeat-of-nix-philosophy/page__view__findpost__p__2206017[/url]

 

To respond SJBF:

 

The ability to remain objective should not be confused with being negative. And I vehemently disagree that having the audacity to criticize a franchise that has promised more and delivered less is somehow what "losers" do. This is argument suppression at its finest.

 

It's one thing for someone to criticize, be wrong, and go away. Problem is, the criticizers seem to be more right than wrong and each season affirms it's the non-objective crowd that either goes on a board hiatus or manufactures excuses for why things didn't go well.

 

I want to see it on the field before I heap praise onto an organization, regardless of who the GM or HC is, that has been without any significant success going back more than a decade. If that's negative, well, so be it.

You make some very valid arguments, but if the non-objective crowd is told to wait till the season starts to see what we have, shouldn't the criticizers also be told the same? I mean that only seems fair. And as far as manufacturing excuses goes, I see both sides doing that.

 

The fact that there are 2 sides to an argument is really a good thing. I tend to be more on the positive outlook side. What gets my goat is when the two sides clash and the pissing match begins. When people refuse to respect one another, the argument loses all validity no matter what side you are on.

[Lurker]

When people refuse to respect one another, the argument loses all validity no matter what side you are on.

Hey, don't bring politics into this...

[Dirtbag]

well, thats like, your opinion man.

 

here are some facts:

 

Clabo and his new wife are from nearby Knoxville. As are their families.

They adopted Tyson's brother's two young children last year.

They have been getting the family stabilized and setting a foundation in Atlanta.

 

$5mil/year is a lot of money. Enough to ignore some higher offers if you have finally JUST gotten your family situation established.

 

They were never going to uproot everything and move 1200 miles to a town they have never been to. Clabo used the Bills offer to milk as much money out of the Falcons as he could for his family. It was a nice idea and dream for the Bills and Bills fans, but it simply wasnt going to happen.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Clabo-family-suddenly-fullGetting-married-adopting-his-niece-and-nephew-give-Falcons-lineman-new-outlook-on-life-in--76678570

 

And lets not forget to factor in the difference between the cities and teams as well. Clabo has a serious chance to be a starter on a Super Bowl team this year.

 

For some players, its not JUST about the numbers on the checks. Kinda refreshing to see that still happens. Too bad it worked against the Bills in this case.

 

Move on.

 

i never said that he wasn't using the bills to drive up his price, nor did i say he didn't have reasons for staying in atlanta.

 

my post simply pointed out that it would take a bit more evidence for me to believe that he rejected $7 mill/year from the bills to take $5 mill/year from atlanta. then i offered what i felt was a more likely hypothesis, of which you're more than welcome to disagree.

 

i agree with you that he likely manipulated the bills to drive up his asking price while always knowing that he wouldn't leave atlanta. unlike you, i don't find it particularly laudable or refreshing.

 

and yes, again, my posts are admittedly all based on opinion. guilty as charged.

 

moving on....

[snamsnoops]

So your point is, don't take a scatback with the first pick of your regime? Agreed!

 

 

This.

YUP! N ur what u said bein crap! So yup!

[yungmack]

 

 

That said, his inability to address the right tackle spot worries and frustrates me. It's a serious problem that will continue to plague this team. NFL coaches aren't stupid, they'll stack the left side of our line and dare us to run off tackle to the right.

 

In Nix's opinion, he HAS addressed the position. He might be wrong of course. But he believes in his guy and the people he has backing them. And, oh yeah, there is that kid they just drafted...

 

Seriously, let's put the endless "the left side of the line sucks" stuff to bed for awhile ("awhile" being until they actually start playing). Same for "the TEs we have suck" business.

[Kelly the Dog]

i never said that he wasn't using the bills to drive up his price, nor did i say he didn't have reasons for staying in atlanta.

 

my post simply pointed out that it would take a bit more evidence for me to believe that he rejected $7 mill/year from the bills to take $5 mill/year from atlanta. then i offered what i felt was a more likely hypothesis, of which you're more than welcome to disagree.

 

i agree with you that he likely manipulated the bills to drive up his asking price while always knowing that he wouldn't leave atlanta. unlike you, i don't find it particularly laudable or refreshing.

 

and yes, again, my posts are admittedly all based on opinion. guilty as charged.

 

moving on....

From all indications, Clabo is not a jerk, but just the opposite. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that he very well may have come to Buffalo even though he very much wanted to stay in Atanta. If the Bills offered him substantially more money, he may have to take it. There were many reports that said he was ready to sign with the Bills because the gap was large between the two teams, and the Falcons were not offering enough. He felt disrespected by them. There are also stories that they upped their offer at the end, and Clabo took it. He easily could have felt if they offer me 5 mil a year, I will take a lot less and keep my family here and play for a contender. If they offer less than 5 mil, and Buffalo offers 6-7, I take the Bills offer.

 

To me there is no real evidence that he was just using the Bills as leverage and would always stay in Atlanta, and there was a lot of evidence that the Bills offered him more, probably a lot more, he was leaning toward coming to Buffalo, and the Falcons increased their offer enough for him to stay for less.

[thewildrabbit]

26 carries? 122 yards? Do you just make up stuff? If you had looked up the stats, you could have made a good point and actually been credible. Or are you too lazy to open a new window?

I stand corrected, Spiller played in 14 games- one GS- 74 attempts 283 yards 3.8 YPC avg. the first stats I posted gave him a 4.69 YPC avg... a quick wiki look up, my mistake.

 

 

 

Still, to say those stats for him in his first year are not a disappointment for the 9th overall pick in the draft... Adrian Peterson was picked 7th overall in the first round of the 07 draft by Minnesota was kinda my point ...in case you missed it

Edited August 6, 2011 by Harvey lives