Fox Merriman article plus a repeat of Nix' philosophy

[John Cocktosten]

The Bills had too many problems to be fixed in two drafts. Buddy did acquire some play-makers (we had more-or-less none) and shored up the defense. He hasn't solved all our needs yet, but he's getting closer.

 

So the defense is shored up now? I think good ol Buddy would laugh at that.

 

Steve Johnson, Freddy, Lee, Roscoe were all on the roster prior to buddy. Brad Smith had 4 catches last year. Who are these playmakers that you speak of?

[Spiderweb]

Maybe we wouldn't have to b*tch and complain about signing someone if Nix chose an Offensive tackle before the 4th round. Instead he chose to go with a scatback in the first when you already had two very capable RBs on the roster.

 

The Superbowl winning Packers have selected OTs in the 1st round the last two drafts and had a 7th round rookie RB start in the playoffs and Super Bowl.

 

The Bills were 7-9 in '08 before Buddy took over. The Packers were 6-10. How quickly can you rebuild?

 

Their is Buddy's philosophy and then there is a winning philosophy.

 

Hummmm.....is there an Aron Rodgers on the Bills roster?

[White Linen]

 

The D line is not very good. It has potential to be good. Beyond KW and Dareus, who should be great, there is a lot of question marks. LBs? No depth and no pass rushers.

 

Well in a 3-4 defense if you have two players who should be great (your words), that's a good start. You call the remainder questions marks, but I see them as so many options who will be the solution? When we go to the 4-3 set Merriman will come down, he might be pretty good, huh? And maybe Moats can develop further. For every reason you feel negative - there's another reason to feel positive.

[jcbillsfan]

Let's end the craziness with the Steelers stuff. They have a system that they've been running there for a long time. Only the Pats and the Colts have been able to match their success and they all do it differently. Steelers and Colts draft. Pats are FA/draft/trade.

 

 

I don't see the Bills being close to 9-7. They are in a division with 2 of the best front offices/coaching staffs in the league. Until they can overcome the Jets or the Pats they are not even close. And if you haven't noticed, the Jets and the Pats kill it in FA and aggressive trades.

 

The D line is not very good. It has potential to be good. Beyond KW and Dareus, who should be great, there is a lot of question marks. LBs? No depth and no pass rushers.

[/qote]

if you have williams and dareus to build around and nice rotation players like troupe , carrington and edwards you are on your way .

[John Cocktosten]

Well in a 3-4 defense if you have two players who should be great (your words), that's a good start. You call the remainder questions marks, but I see them as so many options who will be the solution? When we go to the 4-3 set Merriman will come down, he might be pretty good, huh? And maybe Moats can develop further. For every reason you feel negative - there's another reason to feel positive.

If the Bills get production from Merriman it will be a miracle. He hasn't played in 3 years. Grant it, he was great 4 years ago, but name me a football player who hasn't seen the field in 4 years and returns back to his prior form? Merriman hasn't played with his hand on the ground since college. Come on.

 

Let me give you a scenerio of Merriman with his hand in the dirt. Second and 2. Merriman is playing 7/9 technique DE in a 4 man front. the QB notices this and audbles. TE trades, defense adjusts and now Merriman is at 5 tech shading the tackles eye and covered by the TE and they run power at him......GULP. If you don't think that will happen all day than you should watch more football.

 

Moats ain't running with the ones. Moats has been turned into some mystical All pro. The problem is that Bills fans haven't seen real talent so they cling to the hope 2.5 sacks. If he was so good he wouldn't have been moved inside.

[thewildrabbit]

Not all 7-9 or 6-10 teams are created equal.

 

The team Buddy inherited had only two long-term answers in its front-7: Kyle Williams and Poz. Everyone else was either getting on in years, not very good, or both. There were also problems with the defensive secondary.

 

On offense, there was (and is) no long-term answer at QB, no TE, and holes on the OL. Not many building block players there except for Levitre, Wood, Stevie Johnson, and maybe Bell.

 

Compare that to the Packers. Arguably, Aaron Rodgers is playing better than any other QB in the league. That alone is worth much more than everything Nix inherited from the previous regime. With Aaron Rodgers plus whatever other good, young players the Packers may have had during their 6-10 season, they obviously had a much better core than the one Nix inherited.

The thing a lot of Bills fans don't realize is that Jauron went about scuttling the team before he left. The experienced veteran O line coach Jim McNally retired so jauron replaces him with an assistant instead of hiring an experienced line coach. BTW, McNally is currently working for the NY Jets as a consultant.

 

Jauron implements a "no huddle" offense and cuts the RT Walker because he can't get to the line fast enough, then scraps the "no huddle" after two weeks. That RT would still be an upgrade over anything Buffalo has had since Jauron cut him

 

Jauron cuts his OC two weeks before the season starts and replaces him with the QB coach,so now the QB coach is the OC, calls plays and sets up the game plans. Both Fewell and jauron had a reasonable excuse for a 6-10 season because of that one stupid move.

 

 

 

After reading many of the posts here from Bills fans discouraged by the fact that Nix still hasn't addressed the RT or TE positions for 2 years...it might not take many losses this season before the torches are lit.

[BillsWatch]

am i the only one who finds it difficult to believe that he chose to take $2 million a year less to stay with atlanta, thereby losing $10 million over the life of the contract?

 

it seems far more likely to me that buddy didn't covet him as highly as these unsubstantiated reports would lead us to believe.

 

Lots of players do not want to change teams - accustomed to coaches, system, players. area, etc. Life of contract does not mean much especially since different schemes have different injury potentials. The Falcons are dome team playing in a softer division and he may be counting playoff money as well.

 

What seems more likely to you is your predetermined opinion not FACTS. Oh and rarely are reports substantiated; players, agents and teams leak them for various reasons not always honest ones.

[beerme1]

I skipped through the lat ten or so posts in this thread because of the crying about Nix and Spiller and Troup and Troupe and and and. STFU and enjoy what we get this season. I will B word if we don't win 9 games. It's practice!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Any other team would consider last years draft class very disappointing. Here, it's just the norm.

 

It's really easy to preach patience, but the table was set for the rookies they drafted last year.

Granted last year's draft class didn't make a big impact.

 

It's premature to deem them a bad draft class however.

 

But I know that won't stop you.

 

am i the only one who finds it difficult to believe that he chose to take $2 million a year less to stay with atlanta, thereby losing $10 million over the life of the contract?

 

it seems far more likely to me that buddy didn't covet him as highly as these unsubstantiated reports would lead us to believe.

You freakin' dirtbag!

 

The Bills were at the very bottom of the league in starts from their draft picks. Very few undrafted FA's become great players. That's why they have the draft.

 

BTW, 12 tackles from Coleman. 18 catches for Jones. 18 solos and 2.5 sacks from Moats. Scary production.

See above. Too early to judge a draft class after just one year.

 

But you and a few others seem determined to pronounce Spiller, Troup, Carrington, Easley, Moats, and Batten as failures when in fact, there's no way to no how their careers will turn out.

 

Let's end the craziness with the Steelers stuff. They have a system that they've been running there for a long time. Only the Pats and the Colts have been able to match their success and they all do it differently. Steelers and Colts draft. Pats are FA/draft/trade.

The Bills are in the 2nd year of this regime. People aren't saying the Bills are the Steelers… they're saying that the team is attempting to use the same philosophy as the Steelers.

 

As far as your evaluation of the Patsies*, refresh my memory and tell me which free agents were instrumental in them winning their Super Bowls (they last won in 2004). I only remember Corey Dillon as a contributing free agent but as has been stated numerous times, the time to pursue free agents is when you are 1-2 players away… not when you are rebuilding.

 

Seems to me they haven't won a Super Bowl ever since they started becoming an aggressive free agent team. Randy Moss, Adalius Thomas, Wes Welker, Joey Galloway, Fred Taylor, Leigh Bodden, zero Super Bowls. This year they signed Albert Haynesworth and Chad Ocho Cinco. Good luck with that.

 

The thing a lot of Bills fans don't realize is that Jauron went about scuttling the team before he left. The experienced veteran O line coach Jim McNally retired so jauron replaces him with an assistant instead of hiring an experienced line coach. BTW, McNally is currently working for the NY Jets as a consultant.

 

Jauron implements a "no huddle" offense and cuts the RT Walker because he can't get to the line fast enough, then scraps the "no huddle" after two weeks. That RT would still be an upgrade over anything Buffalo has had since Jauron cut him

 

Jauron cuts his OC two weeks before the season starts and replaces him with the QB coach,so now the QB coach is the OC, calls plays and sets up the game plans. Both Fewell and jauron had a reasonable excuse for a 6-10 season because of that one stupid move.

 

After reading many of the posts here from Bills fans discouraged by the fact that Nix still hasn't addressed the RT or TE positions for 2 years...it might not take many losses this season before the torches are lit.

Again, why are you talking about Jauron?

 

And if anyone starts lighting torches we know who will be leading the lynch mob. Hell you've been tending that campfire for quite some time now.

 

 

[BillsVet]

The Bills are in the 2nd year of this regime. People aren't saying the Bills are the Steelers… they're saying that the team is attempting to use the same philosophy as the Steelers.

 

Saying the Bills team building philosophy is the same at Pittsburgh's because they both build through the draft is absurd. It's like comparing the business plan of Wal-Mart to K-Mart in that both are department stores, but one has a lot better plan and has been much more successful at it than the other.

 

As far as your evaluation of the Patsies*, refresh my memory and tell me which free agents were instrumental in them winning their Super Bowls (they last won in 2004). I only remember Corey Dillon as a contributing free agent but as has been stated numerous times, the time to pursue free agents is when you are 1-2 players away… not when you are rebuilding.

 

Mike Vrabel and Rodney Harrison ring a bell?

 

Seems to me they haven't won a Super Bowl ever since they started becoming an aggressive free agent team. Randy Moss, Adalius Thomas, Wes Welker, Joey Galloway, Fred Taylor, Leigh Bodden, zero Super Bowls. This year they signed Albert Haynesworth and Chad Ocho Cinco. Good luck with that.

 

Not winning SB's is enough to indict an organization that routinely wins 10 or more games and is still looked, 10 years after their first win, as a legit SB contender? So you're trying to bring down the Patriots in an attempt to make Buffalo look better. Now that's a stretch.

 

And if anyone starts lighting torches we know who will be leading the lynch mob. Hell you've been tending that campfire for quite some time now.

 

Only because the team hasn't done anything in 11 years. I would say a fan is justified in demanding more when the record is what Buffalo's has been.

[ThurmasThoman]

The Jets went out and got Holmes, Edwards, Pace, Taylor, Cromartie, Scott, LT.....that's why they are where they are.

 

GB did a total rebuild in 08. Grant it the have AR but again, Fitz isn't the Bills problem. Packers '10 and '11 picks? OT and OT. Guess they're important.

 

There were a ton of Tackles who went on to start from the 2010 draft. Buddy refuses to trade up or down by his own admission. Instead he picked a bunch of players who made zero impact. He should have anticipated a thin FA class. Pretty simple really.

 

 

If the Bills get production from Merriman it will be a miracle. He hasn't played in 3 years. Grant it, he was great 4 years ago, but name me a football player who hasn't seen the field in 4 years and returns back to his prior form? Merriman hasn't played with his hand on the ground since college. Come on.

 

Let me give you a scenerio of Merriman with his hand in the dirt. Second and 2. Merriman is playing 7/9 technique DE in a 4 man front. the QB notices this and audbles. TE trades, defense adjusts and now Merriman is at 5 tech shading the tackles eye and covered by the TE and they run power at him......GULP. If you don't think that will happen all day than you should watch more football.

 

Moats ain't running with the ones. Moats has been turned into some mystical All pro. The problem is that Bills fans haven't seen real talent so they cling to the hope 2.5 sacks. If he was so good he wouldn't have been moved inside.

 

my man... it's "granted" that you're trying to use.

[eball]

If the Bills get production from Merriman it will be a miracle. He hasn't played in 3 years. Grant it, he was great 4 years ago, but name me a football player who hasn't seen the field in 4 years and returns back to his prior form? Merriman hasn't played with his hand on the ground since college. Come on.

 

Let me give you a scenerio of Merriman with his hand in the dirt. Second and 2. Merriman is playing 7/9 technique DE in a 4 man front. the QB notices this and audbles. TE trades, defense adjusts and now Merriman is at 5 tech shading the tackles eye and covered by the TE and they run power at him......GULP. If you don't think that will happen all day than you should watch more football.

 

Moats ain't running with the ones. Moats has been turned into some mystical All pro. The problem is that Bills fans haven't seen real talent so they cling to the hope 2.5 sacks. If he was so good he wouldn't have been moved inside.

Exaggerate much? Come on, man, I completely understand and can accept an analysis that acknowledges the Bills are relying on a lot of unknowns going into the season, but it won't be a "miracle" if Merriman ends up being a productive player. He's still pretty damn young, and one plus of being hurt is that his body hasn't taken a pounding in a couple of years. Do you deny the natural talent and athletic ability?

 

It also wouldn't be a "miracle" if 2nd year players like Spiller, Troup, and Carrington make "typical" frosh-to-soph improvements as they've now learned how to condition themselves and have a year+ of coaching under their belts.

 

Thanks for impressing us with your cool Tim Ryan-like recitation of slick D-line terms, though.

[Nasty]

I'm not bashing Nix because so far he's done a good job IMO. And this is only his second offseason. This is a young team with some talent and potential.

 

That said, his inability to address the right tackle spot worries and frustrates me. It's a serious problem that will continue to plague this team. NFL coaches aren't stupid, they'll stack the left side of our line and dare us to run off tackle to the right.

 

They should've overpaid Clabo. I don't think he ever intended to come here and was just leveraging us against the Falcons, but if we offered a lot more than the 5 years/$25 mil he got, maybe he would've came for the money.

 

I think they did adress our right side, just cause they don't sign those big name free agents (they tried to get Clabo) to overpaid contracts means something to me. It means we have leadership in our office and locker room. Why overpay a player just to get him, when the guy playing right next him on the line is could be better and making less money. Makes for more controversy to me and unwanted distractions. I think Buddy is doing a great job and sticking to his guns and principles. We need more people like him in our political office, but I am not going there. He said he builds a team through the draft and that is just what he is doing. He has drafted two capable RT's in the draft the last two years (Wang and Harriston) give these guys a shot before totally crushing there confidence by bringing in someone else who started the same way they did, by getting drafted in a mid round and earning there coaches respect and get some playing time. I for one think we are fine at RT for now. We aren't winning any superbowls anytime soon so lets build a solid foundation through the draft (like Buddy is) and see what happens.

[John Cocktosten]

my man... it's "granted" that you're trying to use.

my man, have you ever had a baby keep you up all night? Swaddle, white noise, swing, bink....nothing! I'm surprised I didn't say granite.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Saying the Bills team building philosophy is the same at Pittsburgh's because they both build through the draft is absurd. It's like comparing the business plan of Wal-Mart to K-Mart in that both are department stores, but one has a lot better plan and has been much more successful at it than the other.

Why do people deliberately misquote others? It's like a child's game around here sometimes. I said "The Bills are in the 2nd year of this regime. People aren't saying the Bills are the Steelers… they're saying that the team is attempting to use the same philosophy as the Steelers."

 

Mike Vrabel and Rodney Harrison ring a bell?

That's why I asked.

 

Not winning SB's is enough to indict an organization that routinely wins 10 or more games and is still looked, 10 years after their first win, as a legit SB contender? So you're trying to bring down the Patriots in an attempt to make Buffalo look better. Now that's a stretch.

You either enter these discussions in good faith or you don't. I'm saying that rampant free agency is not how championships are won. I'm saying that shrewd, calculated, and restrained use of free agency IS helpful in winning championships. Very disappointing, Billsvet. I thought you were above being pedantic.

 

Only because the team hasn't done anything in 11 years. I would say a fan is justified in demanding more when the record is what Buffalo's has been.

What you and a few others insist on ignoring is that this team is in the 2nd year of a new GM/Head Coach combo.

They have made substantial changes within the football department during this time

Excuse me for saying so but I don't find a mutinous disposition to be a sign of character. The negativity towards the team and the strong, uncurbed impulse to point fingers and assign blame does not flatter those stockpiling torches around the campfire.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Beerball

[John Cocktosten]

Exaggerate much? Come on, man, I completely understand and can accept an analysis that acknowledges the Bills are relying on a lot of unknowns going into the season, but it won't be a "miracle" if Merriman ends up being a productive player. He's still pretty damn young, and one plus of being hurt is that his body hasn't taken a pounding in a couple of years. Do you deny the natural talent and athletic ability?

 

It also wouldn't be a "miracle" if 2nd year players like Spiller, Troup, and Carrington make "typical" frosh-to-soph improvements as they've now learned how to condition themselves and have a year+ of coaching under their belts.

 

Thanks for impressing us with your cool Tim Ryan-like recitation of slick D-line terms, though.

 

Merriman has 4 sacks in his last 3 years after being the most dominant defensive player in the game. If you can think of another defensive player who returned back to his prior dominance 4 years after being non existent then I will won't say "miracle". My point is, why not go out and get a sure thing rather than rely on a complete reclamation project.

 

I like Spiller but we never needed him. RBs were not what killed us over the last decade. A porous Oline and a lack of pass rush is. He's never going to touch the ball 25 times per game. So why burn a pick on niche player when those guys can be had for next to nothing. See Reggie Bush and Darren Sproles.

 

Not trying to impress. I was responding to someone who made it sound like Merriman was simply going to stick his hand in the dirt. It'll be a very similar situation to how teams started to get Kelsay in coverage last year. It's not as simple as it looks and that scenario will happen.

[Beerball]

am i the only one who finds it difficult to believe that he chose to take $2 million a year less to stay with atlanta, thereby losing $10 million over the life of the contract?

 

it seems far more likely to me that buddy didn't covet him as highly as these unsubstantiated reports would lead us to believe.

I don't know the answer to this, but someone out there does...how do the income tax rates compare between the two? $10M isn't always $10M.

[dave mcbride]

As you said, they offered him $7M/year. Which makes sense since they did offer Dockery the same amount 4 years ago, and he wasn't even an OT or a Pro Bowler. But Clabo chose less to stay where he was. Which is admirable but frustrating.

Don't trust any of this until you see the guareanteed amount and the duration of the contract. They may well have made a better offer, but never forget that many bills fans thought that Nate Clements scored an $80 million contact from the Niners. (He didn't).

[Rockinon]

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. The bellyaching around here is enough to make you barf.

[John Cocktosten]

As far as your evaluation of the Patsies*, refresh my memory and tell me which free agents were instrumental in them winning their Super Bowls (they last won in 2004). I only remember Corey Dillon as a contributing free agent but as has been stated numerous times, the time to pursue free agents is when you are 1-2 players away… not when you are rebuilding.

 

Seems to me they haven't won a Super Bowl ever since they started becoming an aggressive free agent team. Randy Moss, Adalius Thomas, Wes Welker, Joey Galloway, Fred Taylor, Leigh Bodden, zero Super Bowls. This year they signed Albert Haynesworth and Chad Ocho Cinco. Good luck with that.

for quite some time now.

 

That's what people seem to be forgetting on this board. Tha Pats did have a ton of key Free Agent vets starting on their team when they were winning. Antwan Smith RB, Wiggins TE, M. Copmton OG, B Hamilton DE, A. Pleasnt DE, Vrabel, LB Bryan Cox LB, Roman Phipher LB, T Buckley CB were all Free agents who started in '01.

 

When you say that haven't won a SB since they started getting aggressive. When they got Welker and Moss they scored the most points and broke every NFL passing record. Would you take a 16-0 season? Seriously SJF.

 

As far as Ocho and Haynesworth not working out, people said the same thing about two degenerates, Moss and Dillon, that turned out to be great in a Pats uniform.

 

I can't believe I just read this whole thread. The bellyaching around here is enough to make you barf.

Free will.