spartacus Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 So does this mean the Bills can never draft or sign an OT??? T PTR you tell me The Bills sure seem to believe they can't spend any resources on the OT position in 15 years since Polian left, they spent ONE premium pick on an OT (and he ate himself out of the league) only Marv had enough juice to open the wallet to bring in some help for the OL. too bad Marv was totally inept as a talent evaluator. and yet Walker has been the best right tackle on this team in a decade. He never should have been cut until a better replacement was found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary_JG Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You idiots have to stop drinking the KOOLAID. Urbik, Pears, and Wrotto were all waiver wire acquisitions. Rinehart was signed from Washington's practice squad. To expect anything out of ANY of these stiffs is simply --DELUSIONAL--. Do you seriously believe that Pittsburgh waived Urbik for no good reason???? Get your head outa your azzz.... As long as you KOOLAID drinkers accept this trash that the Bills front office gives you, all you will get is more of the same.... Bell is already 27 yrs old -- How much more time are you gonna give this guy to prove that he can play COMPETENTLY??? Pears is 29... Quite simply these guys ALL S*CK... I agree, I think we should sign the OL from the AFC probowl squad this past year. Oh wait, that's right THEY'RE UNDER CONTRACT TO OTHER TEAMS!!! F8ck! I love the trolls on this board who think we need probowl players at every position or else we suck. There's a sh*t wack of talent on this roster. You're worse than those dolphags that were chanting for Orton last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 We don't need to play a couple games to see what we have. It's the same stuff every year. Here. I will recap the 2011-2012 season for u... - Preseason, fans get hyped because we look great. OMG. Nick Barnett and Merriman. OMGZ. We're gonna be improved. We look great in preseason. - Reg season starts. Injuries start to mount and our defense continues to struggle against the run. We'll be swept by the Patsies and Jets. We'll split with the Fins 1-1. Fans begin to get pessimistic. BOOOO CHAN...Why didn't we do this? George Edwards sucks !!!! yells the crowd. More Maybin and Kelsay crying. We'll lose a couple close games in OT only to finish the season 6-10. Then next year we'll do it all again. Decent draft pick. Mediocre free agent signings. More booing. It's what Dane Cook calls a Vicious Cycle. We'll start the season 3-8 with our wins coming against the Bengals, Skins, and Fins. I'm afraid this is what I see too. Somebody said that the AFC east is like the AL east... abd we aren't the Yankees or Red Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'm afraid this is what I see too. Somebody said that the AFC east is like the AL east... abd we aren't the Yankees or Red Sox. We're the Orioles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Every power ranking I've read has the Bills in the bottom 5. One has the Bills dead last. they did pick 3rd Further, I can't believe all the negativity from actual fans. We're all tired of the past decade of futility. But I see this team headed in the right direction. definitely, but that could have been said every year for a decade I haven't had this much offseason optimism since Bledsoe was QB. Gailey and Co. have done a remarkable job improving our defense. We have a stud DE and NT, a much improved linebacker core, and we already had a decent secondary. We have three good receivers and just added a utility player in Smith. We have two great RBs, one of whom (Spiller) I can't imagine not being a star someday. Our QB is at least average; I think he can only improve. And we have Wannstedt. you mean all that optimism that amounted to how many playoff games The only thing keeping us from being a dominant force in the AFC East is a TE (Boss, we need you) and OT. Don't quite understand how we haven't picked up anyone yet, but I honestly don't see any other weak spots other than those two positions. one might could without a doubt say two tackles, a better qb, and a lot of unproven or injured players becoming stars - dont forget, darues, troup, carrington, merriman are all hopes and prayers still- not to mention kelsey but that RT and TE are the only difference between our roster and the teams i watched in the playoffs. With the addition of new unis, I firmly believe this is the start of a new Bills team. I think if we get some more help on our offensive line, we can beat the Jets and even the Pats once and sweep the Fins. dont you find it sad that we are talking a "new team" and the result is we might be able to split the division Just my two cents. Does anyone share my reasoned optimism? Or am I just setting myself up for another disappointment? until we have a high end qb, i will be cautiously optimistic. lets be honest, the last time you were this happy we got knocked out of playoff contention by a steeler team that was playing backups. id love to be there in comparison, but that spot isnt great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Right on. Thanks for the cold shower. The tone could have been a little better but this is what I am trying to get across. We have been so talent starved we are actually discussing who will be the king of the misfit offensive tackles. If somebody develops that is a bonus not a plan for success. It's like planning your retirement by buying lottery tickets. Sure, if you get enough tickets you'll hit. Unfortunately you might be dead before you buy the winning one. Not to continue the "Cold Shower" as you put it, but if you just stuck the money paid for those lottery tickets in a jar, you'd be amazed at how soon you would have enough money to take a really nice vacation, or buy that big screen tv that we all lust after... I fully realize that we could lose this team after Ralph's death. But we can't be so afraid to let OBD know that "WE KNOW" that they really aren't trying to win... As Jerry Sullivan said in his article the other day, The Bills haven't been spending up to the cap for three years now... And unlike other teams that amortize the bonuses paid into the future, The Bills apply it to the cap all at once... Also, it is estimated that NFL revenues are expected to nearly double in the next decade. And they couldn't have afforded to make Clabo an offer that he couldn't refuse? Like 7.5 million or even 8 if that's what it would have taken??? Or they could have made offers to three or four OT's like Doug Free for example... Offer all 4 of em big contracts, but only the first one that signs on the dotted line gets the big payday... then all the other offers are rescinded... There were other NFL caliber OT's out there but by seemingly putting all their effort into Clabo (as far as we know), I'd argue that Nix blew it and let himself get played... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Not to continue the "Cold Shower" as you put it, but if you just stuck the money paid for those lottery tickets in a jar, you'd be amazed at how soon you would have enough money to take a really nice vacation, or buy that big screen tv that we all lust after... I fully realize that we could lose this team after Ralph's death. But we can't be so afraid to let OBD know that "WE KNOW" that they really aren't trying to win... As Jerry Sullivan said in his article the other day, The Bills haven't been spending up to the cap for three years now... And unlike other teams that amortize the bonuses paid into the future, The Bills apply it to the cap all at once... Also, it is estimated that NFL revenues are expected to nearly double in the next decade. And they couldn't have afforded to make Clabo an offer that he couldn't refuse? Like 7.5 million or even 8 if that's what it would have taken??? Or they could have made offers to three or four OT's like Doug Free for example... Offer all 4 of em big contracts, but only the first one that signs on the dotted line gets the big payday... then all the other offers are rescinded... There were other NFL caliber OT's out there but by seemingly putting all their effort into Clabo (as far as we know), I'd argue that Nix blew it and let himself get played... In Nix defense I might guess that he thought Clabo was the only one worth it. That's probably just making up an excuse but I too feel we haven't been doing nearly enough in particular on the offensive line. We have damn good RBs with no holes. Fred Jackson makes his living off of cut back running which he was better at than Marshawn. Among other things this is why he is still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I'm beginning to buy into the coaching/front office philosophy in regards to the draft. Hopefully The 2011 draft helped the defense/special teams quite a bit (on paper at least) and that the 2010 picks come of age. For 2012 if the Bills look at LT/RT and possibly a franchise QB with their first three picks the Bills could be a marquee free agent away (pick a position) from something special. It's a lot to ask, I know. And no, I haven't been drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 In Nix defense I might guess that he thought Clabo was the only one worth it. That's probably just making up an excuse but I too feel we haven't been doing nearly enough in particular on the offensive line. We have damn good RBs with no holes. Fred Jackson makes his living off of cut back running which he was better at than Marshawn. Among other things this is why he is still here. Clabo is/was generally regarded as the best, Free 2nd best, Yanda is another young up and coming player... And if Nix is such a smart football guy How did we end up with Cornell Green last year?? Everyone knew he sucked at the time... I like Gailey and would like him to have a chance with a real team not this bunch of has beens and never will be's... But Nix hasn't shown me much at all. Building through the draft is fine but Good Teams supplement the draft with free agency. Simple math tells you that assuming you could draft 3 starters every single year (and how many times have the Bills actually done so?) but assuming that you could consistently do so, if would take you 7 years to replace your entire starting lineup. What is the avg career of an NFL player? But some people tell themselves that if they complain too much the Bills will just leave, so they keep their silence. And they delude themselves into believing that the trash they are seeing is somehow better than nothing so they go along.... I say enough already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Every power ranking I've read has the Bills in the bottom 5. One has the Bills dead last. Further, I can't believe all the negativity from actual fans. We're all tired of the past decade of futility. But I see this team headed in the right direction. I haven't had this much offseason optimism since Bledsoe was QB. Gailey and Co. have done a remarkable job improving our defense. We have a stud DE and NT, a much improved linebacker core, and we already had a decent secondary. We have three good receivers and just added a utility player in Smith. We have two great RBs, one of whom (Spiller) I can't imagine not being a star someday. Our QB is at least average; I think he can only improve. And we have Wannstedt. The only thing keeping us from being a dominant force in the AFC East is a TE (Boss, we need you) and OT. Don't quite understand how we haven't picked up anyone yet, but I honestly don't see any other weak spots other than those two positions. With the addition of new unis, I firmly believe this is the start of a new Bills team. I think if we get some more help on our offensive line, we can beat the Jets and even the Pats once and sweep the Fins. Just my two cents. Does anyone share my reasoned optimism? Or am I just setting myself up for another disappointment? The addition of a franchise QB and a solid RT would represent a major step up for the Bills. I realize Fitz had a solid season last year, and that there were plenty of people on the team who played worse than him. It may seem unfair for me to single him out. But Fitz cannot throw the ball with consistent accuracy, and that's not something that's going to get any better. His grasp of the mental aspect of the game is already so good that there's little room for additional improvement there. If your team doesn't have a franchise QB, it's an uphill battle to compete against a team that does. If your intention is to win that kind of uphill battle all the way to a Lombardi Trophy, you'd better be prepared to have a defense and an OL that are every bit as good as those of the Ravens of 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 As Jerry Sullivan said in his article the other day, The Bills haven't been spending up to the cap for three years now... And unlike other teams that amortize the bonuses paid into the future, The Bills apply it to the cap all at once... Sadly, it's my tentative understanding that even in any year when the Bills pay less actual cash for player compensation than what the salary cap allows, the NFL league office still requires any signing bonus, paid that year as part of a multi-year contract, to be pro-rated over the entire length of the contract. I think the League office prorates all signing bonuses the same way, whether or not a team spends actual cash less than the permitted cap amount for the year in which that signing bonus is paid. If (1) the league let the Bills apply a signing bonus "to the cap all at once," and (2) the Bills consistently spent less actual cash on player compensation than what the salary cap allows, then there would be no salary cap hit when the Bills released a player before his contract expired. But I periodically read about the cap hit that the Bills would take if they cut so and so mid-contract. Doesn't seem fair. Why should some of the signing bonus cash that the Bills spend in year 1 reduce the amount of cash they can spend in year 2, when they already spent less total cash than the salary cap would allow in year 1 anyway? But I think that's how it works. If anybody has a link showing I'm wrong about this, please post it. I didn't see the Sullivan article you referenced - - did it actually say that any signing bonus the Bills pay as part of a multi-year deal gets allocated in full to the salary cap in year 1 rather than being pro-rated over the life of the contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Sadly, it's my tentative understanding that even in any year when the Bills pay less actual cash for player compensation than what the salary cap allows, the NFL league office still requires any signing bonus, paid that year as part of a multi-year contract, to be pro-rated over the entire length of the contract. I think the League office prorates all signing bonuses the same way, whether or not a team spends actual cash less than the permitted cap amount for the year in which that signing bonus is paid. If (1) the league let the Bills apply a signing bonus "to the cap all at once," and (2) the Bills consistently spent less actual cash on player compensation than what the salary cap allows, then there would be no salary cap hit when the Bills released a player before his contract expired. But I periodically read about the cap hit that the Bills would take if they cut so and so mid-contract. Doesn't seem fair. Why should some of the signing bonus cash that the Bills spend in year 1 reduce the amount of cash they can spend in year 2, when they already spent less total cash than the salary cap would allow in year 1 anyway? But I think that's how it works. If anybody has a link showing I'm wrong about this, please post it. I didn't see the Sullivan article you referenced - - did it actually say that any signing bonus the Bills pay as part of a multi-year deal gets allocated in full to the salary cap in year 1 rather than being pro-rated over the life of the contract? Here's the link - http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article509147.ece and here is the Quote: The Bills don't spread out signing bonuses over the length of the contract on their own books. They count the entire bonus in the year it was paid out. Yet they've been at least $10 million under the salary cap the last three years (there was no cap last season; they were $11 million under the '09 cap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I'm cautiously hopeful that the 4-4 finish + additions this off season will mean a better team/record. But I felt that way the previous seasons and all we've done is get worse. So I'll cheer, I'll hope, but my expectations are rock bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Here's the link - http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article509147.ece and here is the Quote: The Bills don't spread out signing bonuses over the length of the contract on their own books. They count the entire bonus in the year it was paid out. Yet they've been at least $10 million under the salary cap the last three years (there was no cap last season; they were $11 million under the '09 cap). Cash to the cap and the NFL salary cap are exclusive of one another. The salary cap is not calculated using Buffalo's strategy, which is basically an accounting method to cover up that they're below the cap. Actual cash paid out is a much different figure than a cap hit, especially when bonuses are involved. The Bills immediately apply a bonus payment to the year it was paid, whereas the cap amortizes that amount over the life of the contract. When a player is released, the bonus is immediately charged to the team's next league year's salary cap and the team has dead cap money. Regardless of C2C or the actual cap, the Bills are indeed closer to the cap floor than the max. Last year most teams did this to position them for the coming labor strife, but with a CBA in place, teams like Carolina are spending freely again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOnDan Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 There are a bunch of losers on this board who only see negativity no matter what they do. It doesn't make a difference whether its the bills, work, family, blah blah blah, they are pessimistic no matter what and they are too underdeveloped mentally to admit their shortcomings in those areas. If you aren't optimistic this time of year, then you have no business calling yourself a fan of that team. Get a life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 There are a bunch of losers on this board who only see negativity no matter what they do. It doesn't make a difference whether its the bills, work, family, blah blah blah, they are pessimistic no matter what and they are too underdeveloped mentally to admit their shortcomings in those areas. If you aren't optimistic this time of year, then you have no business calling yourself a fan of that team. Get a life Start facing reality. This team hasn't made the playoffs in over a decade and it ain't happenong this year either! What you call "negativity" I call OBJECTIVITY... Maybe you need to "Get A Life"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Two positions short of being a great team? Everyone knows the answer to that: Owner and GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) Here's the link - http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article509147.ece and here is the Quote: The Bills don't spread out signing bonuses over the length of the contract on their own books. They count the entire bonus in the year it was paid out. Yet they've been at least $10 million under the salary cap the last three years (there was no cap last season; they were $11 million under the '09 cap). Thanks for the info. Consistent with the post by BillsVet above, I think the key phrase in the Sullivan article is "on their own books." Like any business, the Bills are required to calculate their profits for tax purposes. So it makes sense that they would want to treat the full amount of any signing bonus paid in year 1 as a business expense on the Bills' own books for tax purposes - - they reduce their taxable income in year 1 that way. But consistent with the comments by BillsVet above, the official salary cap accounting is maintained by the League office, and has nothing to do with a team's business profits or losses. So after reading the Sullivan article, I still think my tentative understanding about this is correct. Even if the Bills always spend less total cash on player compensation than what the NFL salary cap would allow for a given year, any signing bonus they pay up front that year on a multi-year player contract is still pro-rated over the full term of the contract for NFL salary cap purposes. I would be more confident that I'm right about this, though, if I had a link from a reputable source confirming it. Seems like it would be more fair for the NFL to give a team the option to avoid pro-ration of the signing bonus for salary cap purposes if the team spent less total cash in year 1 than the salary cap would allow. Why should a team that was under the cap in year 1 anyway have less money to spend in year 2? Edited August 6, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 The only thing keeping us from being a dominant force in the AFC East is a TE (Boss, we need you) and OT. Don't quite understand how we haven't picked up anyone yet, but I honestly don't see any other weak spots other than those two positions. Why do you and so many people keep harping on the TE position. The Bills use a spread offense. TE is not that important right now. I'm sure if he had a very good one Gailey would use him, but I don't believe it's so important to him that Nix feels the need to go out and splurge on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 After further review, I rescind my optimism. Pathetic move getting rid of our most respected player...for a 4th rounder. Yet another year of "rebuilding" I guess. When I wrote this post, I had fully anticipated picking up a tackle or at least a TE and never dreamed of us getting rid of Lee for only a future draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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