UFO Found on Ocean Floor?

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Big Foot man it's painful to sit to the end and then see the very crappy editing ... I think the aliens forgot to remove the probe

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/08/bigfoot-in-yellowstone-video_n_6639924.html

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

[Beerball]

proof positive

[4merper4mer]

proof positive

Wait a minute. Isn't that the resume tape you sent in to dancing with the stars?

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/plan-to-broadcast-messages-to-alien-worlds-leaves-cosmologists-worrying-10042555.html

 

 

 

Professor Stephen Hawking, the Cambridge cosmologist, warned in 2010 that humans should keep as silent as possible because alien civilisations may be attracted to Earth and have the technology to travel here and exploit its resources. “If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn’t turn out well for the Native Americans,” he said.

[Deranged Rhino]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/plan-to-broadcast-messages-to-alien-worlds-leaves-cosmologists-worrying-10042555.html

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31442952

 

BBC had an article today as well about this plan. I have to say, joking aside, this seems like a fundamentally flawed plan.

[Deranged Rhino]

Clinton / Obama Advisor's biggest regret: keeping America in the dark about UFOs.

 

 

“It’s time to find out what the truth really is that’s out there,” he said. “We ought to do it, really, because it’s right. We ought to do it, quite frankly, because the American people can handle the truth. And we ought to do it because it’s the law.”

 

http://news.yahoo.com/outgoing-obama-adviser-john-podesta-s-biggest-regret-of-2014--keeping-america-in-the-dark-about-ufos-234149498.html

[mead107]

Did we find another UFO on the ocean floor or is this the same one from 20011?

[/dev/null]

Clinton / Obama Advisor's biggest regret: keeping America in the dark about UFOs.

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/outgoing-obama-adviser-john-podesta-s-biggest-regret-of-2014--keeping-america-in-the-dark-about-ufos-234149498.html

 

Is a Podesta an adviser or a foot doctor?

[Fadingpain]

The universe is likely absolutely filled with life. A heat source and some liquid water and then wait a while...boom. Life.

 

The problem is that the universe is a big place. Depending on how common life is, our nearest neighbors might be so far away they are never going to get here effectively to visit us, or vice versa.

 

Another problem: you don't just need alien life to exist (if you want it to visit you) you need it to exist at a time when you also exist and are expecting the visit.

 

The earth is about 4.5 billion years old. We have only had radio technology for like 100 years. We still don't have "spaceship" technology to go anywhere far away.

 

So anything we have sent out to space is only 100 light years away now. What if our nearest neighbor is 10,000 light years away? That would be right in our own back yard! But what if that life is still single cell creatures swimming in a pond? Answer: it's going to be a while waiting for them to respond to your radio signal and come visit you in their flying saucer. Like, that might take another 4.5 billion years.

 

Hell, they might finally get here just in time to discover everything here went extinct 100 million years previously or so.

 

Finding intelligent life with communication or transportation technology close enough to you, while you have the same technologies at the same time could be, statistically, almost impossible.

 

Depends on how much life is out there and where it all is.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Stopthepain

[Deranged Rhino]

The universe is likely absolutely filled with life. A heat source and some liquid water and then wait a while...boom. Life.

 

The problem is that the universe is a big place. Depending on how common life is, our nearest neighbors might be so far away they are never going to get here effectively to visit us, or vice versa.

 

Another problem: you don't just need alien life to exist (if you want it to visit you) you need it to exist at a time when you also exist and are expecting the visit.

 

The earth is about 4.5 billion years old. We have only had radio technology for like 100 years. We still don't have "spaceship" technology to go anywhere far away.

 

So anything we have sent out to space is only 100 light years away now. What if our nearest neighbor is 10,000 light years away? That would be right in our own back yard! But what if that life is still single cell creatures swimming in a pond? Answer: it's going to be a while waiting for them to respond to your radio signal and come visit you in their flying saucer. Like, that might take another 4.5 billion years.

 

Hell, they might finally get here just in time to discover everything here went extinct 100 million years previously or so.

 

Finding intelligent life with communication or transportation technology close enough to you, while you have the same technologies at the same time could be, statistically, almost impossible.

 

Depends on how much life is out there and where it all is.

 

You raise excellent points but you're looking at it from a completely human perspective. Our understanding of how the universe works continues to change, daily in some respects. Even if you give humanity the benefit of 1,000 years of higher science and thinking, we'd still be infants in the eyes of any civilizations fortunate enough to have started even 1 million years before us, let alone tens of millions or even billions of years before us.

 

Less than ten years ago it was assumed that planets, especially Earth like planets (rocky, water worlds in the habitable zone as we'd recognize it) were rare. Now we know that they're common. It's estimated that every star has at least two rocky planets orbiting it, meaning there are literally billions of Earth size, water bearing planets in the observable universe. If even only a small percentage of those planets harbored life, and even if only a small percentage of those harbored intelligent life, and even if only a small percentage of those civilizations survived their technological adolescence without blowing themselves up -- there would still be millions of civilizations out there.

 

And that's just the planets that harbor life as we would recognize it (carbon based life forms, most likely bi-pedal and recognizable in form and function).

 

So, let's assume there are millions of these civilizations scattered across the galactic neighborhood. They still have to get here, you're right. But, there's no reason to think that a civilization that started even 100 years before we did, could be 1000 years ahead of us technologically when you factor in Moore's Law. Imagine what can be discovered in that gap. Today we still don't know all that much about how this universe works -- which sounds crazy but it's true. We've learned a ton over our short time span as a species, but it's just a drop in the bucket. We don't know today what Dark Matter is -- how to identify it, define it, see it -- yet we know it's the most abundant matter in the entire universe. Hell, we don't really even know what gravity is -- or how it affects the spiral on tossed footballs at the Ralph. Isn't it more than possible, probable more likely, that there are faster and more efficient means of traveling between the vast distances between the stars than the clumbsy and costly methods we currently employ? Worm holes, anti-gravity propulsion, inter-dimensional travel -- all things that today are science fiction but one day most likely will just be science.

 

Which leads to the next obvious question. If we assume there are intelligent and advanced civilizations in our galactic neighborhood who have figured out methods to travel quickly (or at least efficiently if you take into account there's a chance that they're using advanced AI and drones to explore space rather than flesh and bone beings), wouldn't we have to also assume that they'd be curious about what we're up to on this pale blue dot? Wouldn't we be curious about any primitive civilizations we stumbled across in the cosmos? What would we do? How would we study them? How would that change when suddenly that primitive civilization harnessed the destructive power of the atom and started detonating thousands of nuclear weapons in the atmosphere, oceans, and deserts? Wouldn't that be a planet we'd want to keep a close eye on?

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Just spitballing here.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the natural progression of technological advances will lead to some sort of experiment that results in an extinction event of our own making. Sort of like if the people, who thought the Large hadron super collider might create a black hole that would consume the earth, were right.

 

There were similar concerns when the atom bomb was first tested - - turned out the chain reaction was self-limiting.

 

Hadron collider was powered up - - we're still here.

 

Maybe after 3 or 4 or 87 false alarms we get unlucky, and exterminate our whole civilization.

 

Maybe there's nobody more advanced than earth out there to find, because we're just a "few" years (on a civilization timeline) from repeating the same extinction level experimental event that already exterminated those who previously reached our state of advancement.

 

It would be ironic if the same intellectual curiosity that helped mankind get from first manned flight to walking on the moon in one lifetime exterminated all of us in the end.

 

Future experiment:

 

"That's one small step for man, and … [poof]."

Edited February 15, 2015 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[Fadingpain]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but Michael Crichton wrote a work of fiction called "SPHERE" which was a story about finding a UFO on the ocean floor...having crashed there something like 300 years previously.

 

Been a long time since I read the book, but it was pretty good if this idea fascinates you.

 

I think they made a fairly bad movie out of the book as well, as I recall.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just spitballing here.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the natural progression of technological advances will lead to some sort of experiment that results in an extinction event of our own making. Sort of like if the people, who thought the Large hadron super collider might create a black hole that would consume the earth, were right.

 

There were similar concerns when the atom bomb was first tested - - turned out the chain reaction was self-limiting.

 

Hadron collider was powered up - - we're still here.

 

Maybe after 3 or 4 or 87 false alarms we get unlucky, and exterminate our whole civilization.

 

Maybe there's nobody more advanced than earth out there to find, because we're just a "few" years (on a civilization timeline) from repeating the same extinction level experimental event that already exterminated those who previously reached our state of advancement.

 

It would be ironic if the same intellectual curiosity that helped mankind get from first manned flight to walking on the moon in one lifetime exterminated all of us in the end.

 

Future experiment:

 

"That's one small step for man, and … [poof]."

 

I'm certain there have been thousands of civilizations who destroyed themselves with their own technology. There's no guarantee that we'll survive our own technological adolescence either.

 

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but Michael Crichton wrote a work of fiction called "SPHERE" which was a story about finding a UFO on the ocean floor...having crashed there something like 300 years previously.

 

Been a long time since I read the book, but it was pretty good if this idea fascinates you.

 

I think they made a fairly bad movie out of the book as well, as I recall.

 

Sphere was my favorite Crichton book. You can read it in a day.

[/dev/null]

The universe is likely absolutely filled with life. A heat source and some liquid water and then wait a while...boom. Life.

 

The problem is that the universe is a big place. Depending on how common life is, our nearest neighbors might be so far away they are never going to get here effectively to visit us, or vice versa.

 

Another problem: you don't just need alien life to exist (if you want it to visit you) you need it to exist at a time when you also exist and are expecting the visit.

 

The earth is about 4.5 billion years old. We have only had radio technology for like 100 years. We still don't have "spaceship" technology to go anywhere far away.

 

So anything we have sent out to space is only 100 light years away now. What if our nearest neighbor is 10,000 light years away? That would be right in our own back yard! But what if that life is still single cell creatures swimming in a pond? Answer: it's going to be a while waiting for them to respond to your radio signal and come visit you in their flying saucer. Like, that might take another 4.5 billion years.

 

Hell, they might finally get here just in time to discover everything here went extinct 100 million years previously or so.

 

Finding intelligent life with communication or transportation technology close enough to you, while you have the same technologies at the same time could be, statistically, almost impossible.

 

Depends on how much life is out there and where it all is.

 

 

I have a similar opinion of life beyond our planet. One way that I have heard it described is the Universe as a Christmas Tree with random blinking lights. The light of civilization blinks for a short period of time and a great distance apart.

[Fadingpain]

 

You raise excellent points but you're looking at it from a completely human perspective. Our understanding of how the universe works continues to change, daily in some respects. Even if you give humanity the benefit of 1,000 years of higher science and thinking, we'd still be infants in the eyes of any civilizations fortunate enough to have started even 1 million years before us, let alone tens of millions or even billions of years before us.

 

Less than ten years ago it was assumed that planets, especially Earth like planets (rocky, water worlds in the habitable zone as we'd recognize it) were rare. Now we know that they're common. It's estimated that every star has at least two rocky planets orbiting it, meaning there are literally billions of Earth size, water bearing planets in the observable universe. If even only a small percentage of those planets harbored life, and even if only a small percentage of those harbored intelligent life, and even if only a small percentage of those civilizations survived their technological adolescence without blowing themselves up -- there would still be millions of civilizations out there.

 

And that's just the planets that harbor life as we would recognize it (carbon based life forms, most likely bi-pedal and recognizable in form and function).

 

So, let's assume there are millions of these civilizations scattered across the galactic neighborhood. They still have to get here, you're right. But, there's no reason to think that a civilization that started even 100 years before we did, could be 1000 years ahead of us technologically when you factor in Moore's Law. Imagine what can be discovered in that gap. Today we still don't know all that much about how this universe works -- which sounds crazy but it's true. We've learned a ton over our short time span as a species, but it's just a drop in the bucket. We don't know today what Dark Matter is -- how to identify it, define it, see it -- yet we know it's the most abundant matter in the entire universe. Hell, we don't really even know what gravity is -- or how it affects the spiral on tossed footballs at the Ralph. Isn't it more than possible, probable more likely, that there are faster and more efficient means of traveling between the vast distances between the stars than the clumbsy and costly methods we currently employ? Worm holes, anti-gravity propulsion, inter-dimensional travel -- all things that today are science fiction but one day most likely will just be science.

 

Which leads to the next obvious question. If we assume there are intelligent and advanced civilizations in our galactic neighborhood who have figured out methods to travel quickly (or at least efficiently if you take into account there's a chance that they're using advanced AI and drones to explore space rather than flesh and bone beings), wouldn't we have to also assume that they'd be curious about what we're up to on this pale blue dot? Wouldn't we be curious about any primitive civilizations we stumbled across in the cosmos? What would we do? How would we study them? How would that change when suddenly that primitive civilization harnessed the destructive power of the atom and started detonating thousands of nuclear weapons in the atmosphere, oceans, and deserts? Wouldn't that be a planet we'd want to keep a close eye on?

Oh I fully acknowledge that some civilizations out there could be massively, scarily ahead of us!

 

What I am more reluctant to accept, though, is that fundamental laws of physics can be broken, simply because one civilization is more advanced than another. Of course, you have to define "fundamental law of physics." Sometimes in science a "fundamental law" really just means "the best we understand it at the moment" and sometimes that fundamental law changes dramatically down the road.

 

It is 100% worth noting, too, that we have no clue what dark matter is, and yet dark matter is the most abundant thing in the universe. So we basically don't know what the universe is, in a sense.

 

Having said that, as man's technology has increased, man has always obeyed the laws of science and mathematics. That is because these laws must be obeyed and can't be broken. They also have no penalties for the same reason, which is a fascinating point.

 

At one point in time, say in 1916, early aviation pioneers may have thought making an airplane that flew 1,000 MPH was impossible. Sure, that would be because they were stuck in their own era of technology, and thinking in terms of things like "the wooden frame will buckle under the pressures at those speeds" or "no crappy little internal combustion engine like we use and which makes 110 bhp would be able to propel an aircraft to 1,000 MPH" and so on.

 

In a way, they may have been trapped in their era of technology and scientific understanding. Nowadays, we have a better understanding, but that doesn't mean we have the ability to break laws of physics. Everything an F-15 does obeys the very same laws that the Fokker DR.1 triplane obeyed and it exists in the same world.

 

This is the long way of saying we have to respect the speed of light as a speed limit in the universe. And that means it will always be difficult to visit distant locations, or for others to visit us for the same reason. YES...I guess we can play a game and assume we will figure out how to break the light barrier some day; I think that is unlikely.

 

Are there other potential ways around this as you suggest? Like a worm hole? Can we figure out how to warp space? Imagine a sheet of paper with a dot at the top, and a dot at the bottom. If the paper is flat on a table, the 2 dots are 10.5" apart or whatever. But what if we pick up the piece of paper and bend it, curving it into a tube? We can manipulate the 2 dimensional space so that the 2 dots are not practically on top of each other, much closer.

 

Can this sort of thing be done with the universe? Possibly, yes. But if so, why hasn't it been done by someone else?

 

It is like saying time travel to the past is possible. If so, that would mean that anyone, from any potential future relative to us here, now, would be able to travel backward in time and visit us. Like even the super, super smart aliens from the year 10,475,231 AD.

 

So then why hasn't anyone done it? I would put forth it is because time travel to the past is fundamentally impossible. I would also suggest that theoretical physics involving "warping space time" and the like are also, realistically speaking, impossible. Like you could do it but you would have to theoretically attain infinite mass to do it, or this type of thing. It works as an equation on paper, but not in reality.

Just spitballing here.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the natural progression of technological advances will lead to some sort of experiment that results in an extinction event of our own making. Sort of like if the people, who thought the Large hadron super collider might create a black hole that would consume the earth, were right.

 

There were similar concerns when the atom bomb was first tested - - turned out the chain reaction was self-limiting.

 

Hadron collider was powered up - - we're still here.

 

Maybe after 3 or 4 or 87 false alarms we get unlucky, and exterminate our whole civilization.

 

Maybe there's nobody more advanced than earth out there to find, because we're just a "few" years (on a civilization timeline) from repeating the same extinction level experimental event that already exterminated those who previously reached our state of advancement.

 

It would be ironic if the same intellectual curiosity that helped mankind get from first manned flight to walking on the moon in one lifetime exterminated all of us in the end.

 

Future experiment:

 

"That's one small step for man, and … [poof]."

There are all kinds of things in the universe which conspire against a civilization advancing to the point of inter-galactic travel. It need not come from a civilization destroying itself through its own technology, though it certainly could come from that!

 

More likely would be a massive meteor or comet hit, another ice age, a massive virus, this sort of thing.

 

Here's a fun thought once put forth by an immunologist who was a guest on the Larry King radio show many years ago, when Larry was still doing his radio show out of DC: it is possible that something like HIV could mutate to the point where it is tough enough to survive unprotected in the open air, like a cold virus.

 

In that world, humans could catch HIV/AIDS like you can catch a common cold. In that world, if a cure isn't found, everyone could quickly die off, and a virus which affects the immune system in particular (thus destroying our defense against all other diseases, viruses, etc.) is particularly "clever".

 

Something like that could destroy an advanced civilization just as easily as some mega nuclear war type event or that sort of thing.

[Fadingpain]

Another thought related to GreggyT's comments above about other advanced civilizations...

 

It is amazing to think how far mankind has come in a couple hundred years, and really, just in the last 100 or so.

 

In 1900, people weren't really sure how to create a powered aircraft that worked well. In the 1940s we were breaking the sound barrier. In 1969 we put a man on the moon.

 

You can argue that almost every meaningful piece of technology we have is about 100 years old, give or take not too many years.

 

How did we get there? Why did we discover powered flight in 1903?

 

It goes back a long way, to ancient Rome in my opinion. The Greeks started the foundations of Western Civilization, but Rome pushed everything way further down the road. 2,000 years ago, Rome was by far the most inhabited city on the planet, with a population of over 1 million people. What made it possible? Clean water and a sewer system. It is said that modern Rome did not equal the flow rate of clean drinking water in ancient Rome, per citizen, until the 1950s!

 

Rome set man down the path of learning and gave us many great things, a lot of which is still all around us today.

 

That party ended in the 5th century and Europe descended into the Dark Ages. It too 1,000 years roughly for things to be reborn, and for people (for whatever reason) to remember the good old things, like learning, education, math, science, and so on.

 

We started pulling out of the abyss in the early 15th century. We then steadily progressed, slowly...until in 1903 we had a powered airplane that flew (sort of).

 

In this sense, you can argue mankind/civilization went through a 1,000 year long "dead zone" where not a lot happened as measured by the fall of Rome and the beginning of the Renaissance.

 

Here is the point: what if that dead period never came? What if Rome never fell? We had a powered aircraft something like 500 or 600 years after we started doing things again in the ancient Roman style.

 

What if Rome never fell? That aircraft would have conceivably come along in something like 1,000 AD.

 

That would have meant we would have very usable computers in 1,100AD, around the time of widely distributed cell phones, and sometime in the 11th century we would have put a man on the moon.

 

What would be going on, in that alternative history in the year 2015?!

 

Well, the Bills may likely still not have won a Superbowl.

But! It is kind of scary to think of some of the possibilities.

 

One can somewhat realistically argue that we, in the year 2015, should be something like 900 years further down the road than we are. Which is the equivalent of it now being 2915....

 

Sick people would be using cloned spare body parts to heal themselves, the average life expectancy might be close to 200 years, and God only know what else we'd be doing.

 

I have long thought this would be an interesting subject for a book...the lost 1,000 years or so of human civilization and advancement that we should be enjoying now, but aren't.

[Fadingpain]

 

 

I have a similar opinion of life beyond our planet. One way that I have heard it described is the Universe as a Christmas Tree with random blinking lights. The light of civilization blinks for a short period of time and a great distance apart.

That's an interesting way to put it. See the Fermi paradox. One can argue there should be tens of millions of planets with life on them and many should be advanced. Then again, due to the "christmas tree" effect, it is possible that only 5 or 6 at any point in time exist at the same time with the same levee lot interstellar travel capability, and the distances separating them maybe immense...

 

So depending on how you do the calculations and what your assumptions are, it could be highly likely that we bump into alien life at some point, or almost impossibly unlikely, which is kind of what my original post was about.

[/dev/null]

Another thought related to GreggyT's comments above about other advanced civilizations...

 

It is amazing to think how far mankind has come in a couple hundred years, and really, just in the last 100 or so.

 

In 1900, people weren't really sure how to create a powered aircraft that worked well. In the 1940s we were breaking the sound barrier. In 1969 we put a man on the moon.

 

You can argue that almost every meaningful piece of technology we have is about 100 years old, give or take not too many years.

 

How did we get there? Why did we discover powered flight in 1903?

 

It goes back a long way, to ancient Rome in my opinion. The Greeks started the foundations of Western Civilization, but Rome pushed everything way further down the road. 2,000 years ago, Rome was by far the most inhabited city on the planet, with a population of over 1 million people. What made it possible? Clean water and a sewer system. It is said that modern Rome did not equal the flow rate of clean drinking water in ancient Rome, per citizen, until the 1950s!

 

Rome set man down the path of learning and gave us many great things, a lot of which is still all around us today.

 

That party ended in the 5th century and Europe descended into the Dark Ages. It too 1,000 years roughly for things to be reborn, and for people (for whatever reason) to remember the good old things, like learning, education, math, science, and so on.

 

We started pulling out of the abyss in the early 15th century. We then steadily progressed, slowly...until in 1903 we had a powered airplane that flew (sort of).

 

In this sense, you can argue mankind/civilization went through a 1,000 year long "dead zone" where not a lot happened as measured by the fall of Rome and the beginning of the Renaissance.

 

Here is the point: what if that dead period never came? What if Rome never fell? We had a powered aircraft something like 500 or 600 years after we started doing things again in the ancient Roman style.

 

What if Rome never fell? That aircraft would have conceivably come along in something like 1,000 AD.

 

That would have meant we would have very usable computers in 1,100AD, around the time of widely distributed cell phones, and sometime in the 11th century we would have put a man on the moon.

 

What would be going on, in that alternative history in the year 2015?!

 

Well, the Bills may likely still not have won a Superbowl.

But! It is kind of scary to think of some of the possibilities.

 

One can somewhat realistically argue that we, in the year 2015, should be something like 900 years further down the road than we are. Which is the equivalent of it now being 2915....

 

Sick people would be using cloned spare body parts to heal themselves, the average life expectancy might be close to 200 years, and God only know what else we'd be doing.

 

I have long thought this would be an interesting subject for a book...the lost 1,000 years or so of human civilization and advancement that we should be enjoying now, but aren't.

 

The problem with this theory is that the Dark Ages affected only the Western peninsula of the major world continent. The Chinese didn't experience the Dark Ages with Western Europe. The Ottoman Turks had a good run during the Dark Ages. The Inca and Aztecs built thriving empires during the Dark Ages. And even the Roman Empire survived another thousand years after the sack of Rome until the fall of Constantinople in the 15th century. Which coincidentally is what prompted Western Europeans to find an alternate to India and thus Christopher Columbus sailed west