UFO Found on Ocean Floor?

[Augie]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Is prat good down under?

 

Drake's equation was meant to "hype" the possible existence of intelligent aliens and draw more $$$$$$$$ for the researchers.  At the time it made sense.  As the equation has been filled in with increasingly better data, zeroes have popped up as the product of the equation.  As you're aware, anything times zero equals zero.  It is unclear which factor or factors is a zero, but at least one fits the bill.  Certainly the quantity of planets is not it.  Holy Moly.

 

I admit I've mocked Drake's equation and stoners who stare at the sky and say "whoa dude that's like really big" but I certainly haven't relied on them.  I've relied on the data.....the math.  If something was there to be found, it is almost inconceivable it wouldn't have been found yet.  Don't rely on me.  Don't rely on Drake.  Don't even rely on Von Neumann or Fermi.  Rely on the results, and the math behind them.

 

I have no position on this, but I am fully aware of our ignorance as a species. Results? If I blink once and don’t see the Eiffel Tower, it may still be there.  On the scale of knowledge, we are only slightly above ants, and the scope of our search is barely more than one grain of sand on all the beaches of our planet. 

 

At least I KNOW I don’t know, but feel free to carry on in blissful ignorance. 

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

So this is completely backwards you're assuming the result is zero so therefore there must be something in the equation that causes that. That's more for debating why there isn't intelligent life out there than debating whether there would be.

 

We haven't even been looking for a hundred years hell we haven't even been around as a species for very long on the scale of life on Earth let alone the Universe. If the signals we've sent out that we ourselves look for to find intelligent life haven't even escaped our own Galaxy how can we possibly think we've looked long or thorough enough to conclude "Whelp now one is there."

Try looking from more than one perspective.  Think about it.

[Warcodered]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Try looking from more than one perspective.  Think about it.

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How about a twist on things for the sake of discussion?

 

 If intelligent life exists, and as you imply, has been around far longer than us, in what way do you feel we'd be most likely to be threatened by them if at all.

 

How would they explore the Galaxy/universe?

[Rob's House]

On 2/14/2020 at 11:46 AM, Deranged Rhino said:

This requires some reading between the lines -- 

 

 

(Note: Not meant to be about 45 or politics -- but if you are familiar with this subject in general, you'll understand why the Dept of Energy being on the Space Council would be important)

 

Dyson swarm?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

How about a twist on things for the sake of discussion?

 

 If intelligent life exists, and as you imply, has been around far longer than us, in what way do you feel we'd be most likely to be threatened by them if at all.

 

How would they explore the Galaxy/universe?

 

Math does not solve everything.  

Does math prove that "ghosts" and or Poltergeists exist? 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

10 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

How about a twist on things for the sake of discussion?

 

 If intelligent life exists, and as you imply, has been around far longer than us, in what way do you feel we'd be most likely to be threatened by them if at all.

 

How would they explore the Galaxy/universe?

Who knows? If they have the power to travel here, then they would certainly be more advanced than us. Or maybe they would have discovered life all over the place and not give much thought to us. 

 

Perhaps, they might be super small beings. Or super big! 

 

A chimpanzee is like only 1% different than us in DNA yet we are so much smarter than they are. What if some alien species is 5% smarter than us? They might just see us as an inferior and sort of interesting but not that special. Who knows? 

[K-9]

35 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Who knows? If they have the power to travel here, then they would certainly be more advanced than us. Or maybe they would have discovered life all over the place and not give much thought to us. 

 

Perhaps, they might be super small beings. Or super big! 

 

A chimpanzee is like only 1% different than us in DNA yet we are so much smarter than they are. What if some alien species is 5% smarter than us? They might just see us as an inferior and sort of interesting but not that special. Who knows? 

An alien species that is only 5% smarter than us only bolsters the idea that intelligent life, indeed, does not exist elsewhere. 

[ChevyVanMiller]

NASA just declassified this photo. Draw your own conclusions.

[Deranged Rhino]

12 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

How about a twist on things for the sake of discussion?

 

 If intelligent life exists, and as you imply, has been around far longer than us, in what way do you feel we'd be most likely to be threatened by them if at all.

 

How would they explore the Galaxy/universe?

 

I'll take a pre-coffee crack at these two questions: 

 

1) " If intelligent life exists, and as you imply, has been around far longer than us, in what way do you feel we'd be most likely to be threatened by them if at all."

 

How could we be threatened by an advanced ETI species? How many different Sci-Fi plots do you want to re-hash? The answer would depend on what kind of intelligent life discovers us. An advanced species who is scavenging for resources could view our species in the same way the indigenous people were viewed by Europeans when they crossed the ocean, it didn't work out too well for the natives did it? Or, that same scavenging species could view us as less than microbes, and wipe us out simply to get us out of the way. No muss no fuss.

 

Perhaps it's a more benign species, aquatic based, who views whales and dolphins as the intelligent life on this planet and our own species as a surface nuisance. Maybe they ignore us completely in favor of their research/communication with our ocean dwelling mammals -- until they decide our pollution is a threat and, in a move to protect the true intelligent life on this blue ball, they decide to wipe us out so the oceans can flourish. 

 

Or, perhaps, it's a species that's more interested in genetic engineering and farming than they are conquest. A species like this, could have discovered us millions of years ago and tinkered with our genetics and DNA in order to "grow" a science experiment. Perhaps they "grow" us for research, perhaps they "grow us" for profit (selling us off world/using us for parts or food), perhaps they are just playing a giant game of civilization for kicks. Genetic farmers, depending on their goals, would not only be observing their science experiment but also arranging our society/culture/governments to best help them continue their work undetected and unabated. 

 

The possibilities are as endless as your imagination when it comes to this question. 

 

2) "How would they explore the Galaxy/universe?"

 

Again, this answer could have (likely has) multiple answers. Some species may have developed along a technological timeline similar to our own, and are using (somewhat) conventional technology to cross the distances of the stars -- things like fusion reactors, arc ships/generational ships (where they exhaust lifetimes crossing the vast expanse of space, using cloning/genetics to keep their population going during the journey). There could be (likely are) many species who travel using scalar technology and worm hole travel which defy our (incomplete) models of physics. Then there are those who could use their advanced consciousness to travel vast distances without technology at all. 

 

The possibilities are once again quite endless.   

 

12 hours ago, Rob's House said:

Dyson swarm?

 

 

 

Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that we (the US Gov't) had recovered technology from ETI visitors -- either in the form of crashes or straight forward technological exchanges. And let's say, for the sake of discussion, that these technologies have been locked away behind national security classifications at DARPA and Skunkworks and within the national defense industry for 70+ years. 

 

If, and it's a big if, that's true and there is a push to unveil some of this technology (for whatever reason) -- then the Space Force is the perfect vehicle. They can reveal "new" technology (which is really old) under the guise of this program, and if that tech involves propulsion and energy creation, then it would make sense to have the department of energy as a member of the space council. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

An alien species that is only 5% smarter than us only bolsters the idea that intelligent life, indeed, does not exist elsewhere. 

 

  

 

Made my morning with that one. 

[4merper4mer]

11 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I'll take a pre-coffee crack at these two questions: 

 

1) " If intelligent life exists, and as you imply, has been around far longer than us, in what way do you feel we'd be most likely to be threatened by them if at all."

 

How could we be threatened by an advanced ETI species? How many different Sci-Fi plots do you want to re-hash? The answer would depend on what kind of intelligent life discovers us. An advanced species who is scavenging for resources could view our species in the same way the indigenous people were viewed by Europeans when they crossed the ocean, it didn't work out too well for the natives did it? Or, that same scavenging species could view us as less than microbes, and wipe us out simply to get us out of the way. No muss no fuss.

 

Perhaps it's a more benign species, aquatic based, who views whales and dolphins as the intelligent life on this planet and our own species as a surface nuisance. Maybe they ignore us completely in favor of their research/communication with our ocean dwelling mammals -- until they decide our pollution is a threat and, in a move to protect the true intelligent life on this blue ball, they decide to wipe us out so the oceans can flourish. 

 

Or, perhaps, it's a species that's more interested in genetic engineering and farming than they are conquest. A species like this, could have discovered us millions of years ago and tinkered with our genetics and DNA in order to "grow" a science experiment. Perhaps they "grow" us for research, perhaps they "grow us" for profit (selling us off world/using us for parts or food), perhaps they are just playing a giant game of civilization for kicks. Genetic farmers, depending on their goals, would not only be observing their science experiment but also arranging our society/culture/governments to best help them continue their work undetected and unabated. 

 

The possibilities are as endless as your imagination when it comes to this question. 

 

2) "How would they explore the Galaxy/universe?"

 

Again, this answer could have (likely has) multiple answers. Some species may have developed along a technological timeline similar to our own, and are using (somewhat) conventional technology to cross the distances of the stars -- things like fusion reactors, arc ships/generational ships (where they exhaust lifetimes crossing the vast expanse of space, using cloning/genetics to keep their population going during the journey). There could be (likely are) many species who travel using scalar technology and worm hole travel which defy our (incomplete) models of physics. Then there are those who could use their advanced consciousness to travel vast distances without technology at all. 

 

The possibilities are once again quite endless.   

 

 

 

 

Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that we (the US Gov't) had recovered technology from ETI visitors -- either in the form of crashes or straight forward technological exchanges. And let's say, for the sake of discussion, that these technologies have been locked away behind national security classifications at DARPA and Skunkworks and within the national defense industry for 70+ years. 

 

If, and it's a big if, that's true and there is a push to unveil some of this technology (for whatever reason) -- then the Space Force is the perfect vehicle. They can reveal "new" technology (which is really old) under the guise of this program, and if that tech involves propulsion and energy creation, then it would make sense to have the department of energy as a member of the space council. 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Made my morning with that one. 

You're gonna need a bigger coffee pot.

 

I'll start with question 2 as I think it feeds question 1.  The assumption you make in your answer is that there are many alien civilizations.  While I find the scalar and wormhole stuff interesting, let's focus on the conventional.  Our travel to Mars, our neighbor, has been what so far?  Robotic.  Why? Because of the immense process of sending a human.  Maybe someday we'll go.  It would be awesome, but robots will always be easier.

 

Fast forward to travel through the galaxy and the advantages of sending robots are exponentially increased.  Can you imagine a circumstance where any "conventionally" traveling species would send living beings first?  If there are multitudes of species as you posit, I find it wildly implausible that the vast vast majority would do anything other than send robots first.  Very soon, at the current rate of technological advancement, we will be able to build robots capable of self replication.  It has been estimated that such devices could physically visit and colonize the ENTIRE galaxy in 250,000 years.  They are commonly referred to as Von Neumann probes.  250,000 years is not a blip when compared to the age of the galaxy.  Where are the probes?  They simply would have to be here already, multiple times over if your assumptions are true.  But they aren't.

 

As for question 1, the scavenger threat could be a real one not just from the aliens themselves, but from the self replicating probes who need materials.  If they're shooting off in all directions from each solar system, they'd need a lot of replicant building blocks.  In our limited exploration of Mars and the Moon, has there been any evidence of this?  What if the probes needed all of Jupiter but could leave everything else alone.  That would throw the balance of the system way off.  

 

If we ever venture to the stars without finding a shortcut it will almost certainly be in this manner, at least to begin.  It is plausible that DNA maps could be embedded into these probes and programmed to be adjusted to meet the characteristics of new homes.  

 

And yet, no probes from anywhere ever.  No signals from anywhere ever.  I wonder why.  Maybe we should ask Sheldon.

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

You're gonna need a bigger coffee pot.

 

I'll start with question 2 as I think it feeds question 1.  The assumption you make in your answer is that there are many alien civilizations.  While I find the scalar and wormhole stuff interesting, let's focus on the conventional.  Our travel to Mars, our neighbor, has been what so far?  Robotic.  Why? Because of the immense process of sending a human.  Maybe someday we'll go.  It would be awesome, but robots will always be easier.

 

Fast forward to travel through the galaxy and the advantages of sending robots are exponentially increased.  Can you imagine a circumstance where any "conventionally" traveling species would send living beings first?  If there are multitudes of species as you posit, I find it wildly implausible that the vast vast majority would do anything other than send robots first.  Very soon, at the current rate of technological advancement, we will be able to build robots capable of self replication.  It has been estimated that such devices could physically visit and colonize the ENTIRE galaxy in 250,000 years.  They are commonly referred to as Von Neumann probes.  250,000 years is not a blip when compared to the age of the galaxy.  Where are the probes?  They simply would have to be here already, multiple times over if your assumptions are true.  But they aren't.

 

As for question 1, the scavenger threat could be a real one not just from the aliens themselves, but from the self replicating probes who need materials.  If they're shooting off in all directions from each solar system, they'd need a lot of replicant building blocks.  In our limited exploration of Mars and the Moon, has there been any evidence of this?  What if the probes needed all of Jupiter but could leave everything else alone.  That would throw the balance of the system way off.  

 

If we ever venture to the stars without finding a shortcut it will almost certainly be in this manner, at least to begin.  It is plausible that DNA maps could be embedded into these probes and programmed to be adjusted to meet the characteristics of new homes.  

 

And yet, no probes from anywhere ever.  No signals from anywhere ever.  I wonder why.  Maybe we should ask Sheldon.

 

Again, I have no stance here, but is that a serious question? Barely more than a hundred years ago we were trying to get a plane off the ground, now we are driving remote control science labs around on Mars. What might another hundred, or million years make possible? Ten million? 

 

I remember when I could make my grandson think I stole his nose! If I knew there was an ant in the backyard, I’m sure I could trick it into being unaware of my presence. IF there was such a thing as an alien visitor, I have no doubt that we would only know as much as they wanted us to know. That’s one reason I laugh at all these reports of alien crafts crashing all over earth like drunken teenage drivers. Yeah, they can cross the universe with science we can’t even imagine, but then ran out of gas or fell asleep at the wheel and crashed all over the planet.  

[LeGOATski]

On 2/26/2020 at 10:19 PM, Augie said:

 

Again, I have no stance here, but is that a serious question? Barely more than a hundred years ago we were trying to get a plane off the ground, now we are driving remote control science labs around on Mars. What might another hundred, or million years make possible? Ten million? 

 

I remember when I could make my grandson think I stole his nose! If I knew there was an ant in the backyard, I’m sure I could trick it into being unaware of my presence. IF there was such a thing as an alien visitor, I have no doubt that we would only know as much as they wanted us to know. That’s one reason I laugh at all these reports of alien crafts crashing all over earth like drunken teenage drivers. Yeah, they can cross the universe with science we can’t even imagine, but then ran out of gas or fell asleep at the wheel and crashed all over the planet.  

Idk about you, but I'd shine a blinking light at the ant. The ant would wonder what my blinking light was, but never be able to figure it out. I'd LOL so hard. Stupid ant.

[/dev/null]

On 2/27/2020 at 12:19 AM, Augie said:

Again, I have no stance here, but is that a serious question? Barely more than a hundred years ago we were trying to get a plane off the ground, now we are driving remote control science labs around on Mars. What might another hundred, or million years make possible? Ten million? 

 

I remember when I could make my grandson think I stole his nose! If I knew there was an ant in the backyard, I’m sure I could trick it into being unaware of my presence. IF there was such a thing as an alien visitor, I have no doubt that we would only know as much as they wanted us to know. That’s one reason I laugh at all these reports of alien crafts crashing all over earth like drunken teenage drivers. Yeah, they can cross the universe with science we can’t even imagine, but then ran out of gas or fell asleep at the wheel and crashed all over the planet.  

 

By your own argument, crashed UFOs could very well be drunken alien teenagers.  Visiting Earth could be like a ride in the country and anal probes their version of cow tipping.

[4merper4mer]

8 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

By your own argument, crashed UFOs could very well be drunken alien teenagers.  Visiting Earth could be like a ride in the country and anal probes their version of cow tipping.

I agree with him that UFO crashes are a silly notion but we have different reasons.  If, however a species conquered the massive task of interstellar travel, they wouldn't be crashing.  Not even their teenagers.

 

What he misses is the undeniable reality that at least a large percentage of travelers would start with self replicating probes and radio and other signals before that.  In order for them to "hide" they would have to chase down all their signals and probes before they reached us or anyone else and cover their tracks.  And if there are thousands of societies out there, they would ALL have to do the same thing every single time.  This is not realistic.

 

It isn't the greatest analogy but if humans decided right now as a species to hide from ants, could we pull it off?

 

You know the best way to hide?  By not existing in the first place.

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

I agree with him that UFO crashes are a silly notion but we have different reasons.  If, however a species conquered the massive task of interstellar travel, they wouldn't be crashing.  Not even their teenagers.

 

What he misses is the undeniable reality that at least a large percentage of travelers would start with self replicating probes and radio and other signals before that.  In order for them to "hide" they would have to chase down all their signals and probes before they reached us or anyone else and cover their tracks.  And if there are thousands of societies out there, they would ALL have to do the same thing every single time.  This is not realistic.

 

It isn't the greatest analogy but if humans decided right now as a species to hide from ants, could we pull it off?

 

You know the best way to hide?  By not existing in the first place.

Those tic-tac UFOs are the probes. We found them....or they found us....

[Augie]

10 hours ago, /dev/null said:

 

By your own argument, crashed UFOs could very well be drunken alien teenagers.  Visiting Earth could be like a ride in the country and anal probes their version of cow tipping.

 

When my son was in high school I found a can of fluorescent orange spray paint in his car. Naturally concerned, I asked what it was for. He said he and another friend from the football team had gone out for some cow tipping one night but they didn’t have the heart.....so they “decorated them” instead.  Ugh......

 

 

.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Augie

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

Those tic-tac UFOs are the probes. We found them....or they found us....

have they probed Uranus yet?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, Foxx said:

have they probed Uranus yet?

 

I hear they found a few Klingons 

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

have they probed Uranus yet?

I keep telling them to, but they're not into it