4merper4mer Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Foxx said: of course intelligent life exists outside of Earth. do you believe that once you are done here on Earth that that is the end? no. the journey continues. what we know of the Universe would not amount to a drop of water in all the oceans of the world. what we are able to perceive would not amount to a drop of water in just one ocean. how many other dimensions reside in the Universe? don't limit your assumptions. The premise of the question is about if intelligent life elsewhere is more likely if God exists or more likely if no God exists. You are forced to not assume intelligent life exists or that it doesn't. It has no bearing on the question. Your feelings on God shouldn't really inhibit thinking this through either. In in a way this is a bit of a reverse angle on the discussion here and in a way it is completely unrelated. Ideally we'd here from 4 types: Religious person believing that God would have made only us. Religious person believing God would have made other intelligent life. Atheist believing the universe has just us. Atheist believing intelligent life is elsewhere. I am interested in the "why" in all of the above and things like an atheist thinking it is just us believing God would have created more. Again, why? I also should have clarified that I am limiting the question to our observable universe. Ignoring the math and logic that says we're alone or the wishfulness that hopes for the contrary is necessary for this excercise, so please ignore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 43 minutes ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said: Not directly responsive to 4merper4mer's point #2 above, but perhaps related: https://gizmodo.com/which-religion-is-friendliest-to-the-idea-of-aliens-1841241730?utm_source=pocket-newtab Well it overlaps. One thing I learned is that Douglas Vackotch is an idiot but I had never heard his name before so big whoop. That article had the potential to be pretty intersting and maybe I'll read the rest later but the people at the beginning clearly hadn't done much more than scratch the surface of understanding religion, much less spirituality. They were looking down at religious/spiritual people. That doesn't lend itself to objective thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: The premise of the question is about if intelligent life elsewhere is more likely if God exists or more likely if no God exists. You are forced to not assume intelligent life exists or that it doesn't. It has no bearing on the question. Your feelings on God shouldn't really inhibit thinking this through either. In in a way this is a bit of a reverse angle on the discussion here and in a way it is completely unrelated. Ideally we'd here from 4 types: Religious person believing that God would have made only us. Religious person believing God would have made other intelligent life. Atheist believing the universe has just us. Atheist believing intelligent life is elsewhere. I am interested in the "why" in all of the above and things like an atheist thinking it is just us believing God would have created more. Again, why? I also should have clarified that I am limiting the question to our observable universe. Ignoring the math and logic that says we're alone or the wishfulness that hopes for the contrary is necessary for this excercise, so please ignore them. i understood your premise and apologies if i went off on a tangent, i just happen to think that the tangent is also a point of discussion worth pondering. being that believing in God comes with sort of a precondition, that being there is an afterlife, i think it makes my meandering a worthy topic of thought. i will back off it however as it really is your question, apologies if i launched it in another direction with my tangent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Foxx said: i understood your premise and apologies if i went off on a tangent, i just happen to think that the tangent is also a point of discussion worth pondering. being that believing in God comes with sort of a precondition, that being there is an afterlife, i think it makes my meandering a worthy topic of thought. i will back off it however as it really is your question, apologies if i launched it in another direction with my tangent. No worries, and feel free on the tangent. That could be intersting too, albeit separate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, LeGOATski said: Once you're dead, that's it. Journey over. I find the idea of an interdimensional soul spirit much harder to believe than aliens. ... i hope you are wrong. can i prove it, nope. but i refuse to believe this grand universe of which we can only perceive a minute portion of (due to known limitations of the human condition), exists for what would not even be a blip on the terrestrial timescale, and would include the whole of the human experience, not just a single life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Foxx said: i hope you are wrong. can i prove it, nope. but i refuse to believe this grand universe of which we can only perceive a minute portion of (due to known limitations of the human condition), exists for what would not even be a blip on the terrestrial timescale, and would include the whole of the human experience, not just a single life. It was here long before us and will be here long after us. The fact that we've existed for such a small amount of time just proves how insignificant we are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 https://www.yahoo.com/news/ufo-americas-newest-stealth-plane-185600786.html A UFO Or America's Newest Stealth Plane? Iran Just Saw Something Fly By At Mach 10 To protect the nuke facilities, in 2004 Iran deployed a task force composed of eight F-4E fighters and eight F-14s plus a former 707 airliner and a C-130 cargo plane outfitted with sensors and radios for command and control. The task force encountered what it believed were CIA drones with “astonishing flight characteristics.” The UAVs could jam radars and disrupt interceptors’ navigation systems. They flew “outside the atmosphere” at speeds of up to Mach 10. They could hover. Flying at night, they emitted a telltale blue light that led to their nickname: “luminous objects.” “In several cases … F-14s faced them but were unable to operate their armament systems properly,” Taghvaee wrote. One Tomcat taking off to intercept a luminous object on Jan. 26, 2012 mysteriously exploded, killing both crewmen. Taghvaee implies the alleged UAV was somehow responsible, as the F-14 in question was “one of the fittest” of the 40 or so Tomcats then in service. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: https://www.yahoo.com/news/ufo-americas-newest-stealth-plane-185600786.html A UFO Or America's Newest Stealth Plane? Iran Just Saw Something Fly By At Mach 10 To protect the nuke facilities, in 2004 Iran deployed a task force composed of eight F-4E fighters and eight F-14s plus a former 707 airliner and a C-130 cargo plane outfitted with sensors and radios for command and control. The task force encountered what it believed were CIA drones with “astonishing flight characteristics.” The UAVs could jam radars and disrupt interceptors’ navigation systems. They flew “outside the atmosphere” at speeds of up to Mach 10. They could hover. Flying at night, they emitted a telltale blue light that led to their nickname: “luminous objects.” “In several cases … F-14s faced them but were unable to operate their armament systems properly,” Taghvaee wrote. One Tomcat taking off to intercept a luminous object on Jan. 26, 2012 mysteriously exploded, killing both crewmen. Taghvaee implies the alleged UAV was somehow responsible, as the F-14 in question was “one of the fittest” of the 40 or so Tomcats then in service. wait... Iran has F-14's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 From https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/persian-cats-9242012/ Persian Cats How Iranian air crews, cut off from U.S. technical support, used the F-14 against Iraqi attackers. By Tom Cooper Air & Space Magazine | Subscribe September 2006 FIVE YEARS BEFORE THE 1979 Islamic Revolution transformed Iran, Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, a pilot who had earned his wings in 1946 flying a British Tiger Moth, arranged for Iran to purchase 80 Grumman F-14A Tomcats and 633 Hughes AIM-54 Phoenix missiles for $2 billion. (The Iranian deal is credited with saving the F-14 program, which Congress had stopped funding, and by some with saving the Grumman Corporation from bankruptcy.) Iran became the only country besides the United States to fly the big fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Earned his wings flying a British ***** Tiger Moth... I like how they put a target on the pilot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7947543/I-thought-end-world-Space-debris-lights-sky-Southern-California.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 7:44 PM, 4merper4mer said: 2. I'm interested in your thoughts on if God exists would it make it more or less likely that intelligent life would exist in one place in the universe than if God did not exist. I think that this can be answered by atheists and religious folks without going into arguments about God's existence. You don't even have to state your beliefs in that regard at all. I find it a difficult question personally. I can only speak for my own beliefs. To me, the existence of other intelligent life in the universe would only enhance God. Lots of more religious minded people than me do not believe that aliens exist, and instead state that any alien sighting is demonic/angelic. I, personally, don't think they're mutually exclusive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I can only speak for my own beliefs. To me, the existence of other intelligent life in the universe would only enhance God. Lots of more religious minded people than me do not believe that aliens exist, and instead state that any alien sighting is demonic/angelic. I, personally, don't think they're mutually exclusive. there are also those who believe the Bible to be metaphorical in many respects and that God might possibly be an alien. which if you look to the many descriptions of God and the angels, it is actually quite plausible. but i digress, i am off in the weeds again. Edited January 30, 2020 by Foxx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 17 hours ago, Foxx said: there are also those who believe the Bible to be metaphorical in many respects and that God might possibly be an alien. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/30/2020 at 9:45 AM, Deranged Rhino said: I can only speak for my own beliefs. To me, the existence of other intelligent life in the universe would only enhance God. Lots of more religious minded people than me do not believe that aliens exist, and instead state that any alien sighting is demonic/angelic. I, personally, don't think they're mutually exclusive. Once we find aliens, those same people will hope that the aliens are converted to their religion... Like when westerners discovered native Americans.....or any other previously unknown group of people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 https://www.history.com/.amp/news/uk-ufos-mainbrace-nato JAN 15, 2020 The UFO Sightings that Pushed the UK to Take 'Flying Saucers' More Seriously The incidents interrupted Exercise Mainbrace, a massive set of NATO war-game maneuvers. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/ufo-sightings-north-america-jumped-6000-2019/story?id=68145474 UFO sightings in North America jumped to nearly 6,000 in 2019 By Ivan PereiraJan 8, 2020, 5:56 PM ET 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Any updates on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 The aliens keep deleting the proof 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7978943/Experts-says-Jupiters-moon-Europa-home-alien-life-octopus-like-creatures.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: The aliens keep deleting the proof The Patriots* taught them that...... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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