dpberr Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 The bottom line is that you don't see 228 lb linebackers even in college football. Being such a light LB will get you killed in the NFL. If I'm the Bills, I'm evaluating plan B. Why they still insist on keeping him at LB baffles me. Try him at another position or release him.
White Linen Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Honestly, no. Nothing points to me and tells me that Spiller, even with good stats, is what the Buffalo Bills Football Team needs in order to win football games. Parrish, another gadget player, was our first pick of a draft. McKelvin was a #9. Lee Evans, a one trick pony, was a wasted pick as well in terms of when he was drafted imo. Spiller, a #9, sucked last season. His blocking hasn't improved and he is said to be stupid. What logical reason do either of us have have to think that he will be an impact player? Coach, I very respectfully urge you to remember that we did this before, in terms of building a defense. Butler/Wade concentrated heavily on defense. They signed Big Ted and Bryce. I make the case that they were both superstars for a period of time. But, the team didn't fully click because of players such as Ostroski and Fina. Do our current blockers really not remind you of these guys? The right side is stiff and Bell, like Fina, is agile but weak and undersized. In other words, nothing new. When the Bills decide to get strong and talented on both sides of the line, they will win football games. Until then, they will lose football games. Jmo. Bill I totally agree with you in regards to building strong and talented lines on both sides of the ball. But you say it as if Nix has had ample time to do so. He's had two off seasons. What makes you think Nix hasn't decided to do what we know is needed, because he didn't trade back for Bulaga? So instead of Spiller you would rather have had us draft Bulaga at #9? Assuming we couldn't trade down. We would have had to try and make him a LT, then when he didn't work out move him to RT in 2-3 years, then feel like it was a waisted pick drafting a RT at pick #9. Bulaga got drafted exactly where he should have and made a RT by a contending team. This team cannot afford to be spending first round draft picks on Right Tackles.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) At this point in Wake's career compared to Maybin's, he was two years away from even being signed by the CFL. Wake is 6 years older than Maybin, and came out of school at least a year older than him. Didnt make a team in the NFL in 2005, then it took two years before he even played in the CFL. And two years in the CFL before the NFL. I don't think Maybin has the ability to play in the NFL right now, although he may be able to scratch and claw enough make this team. I think there is a slim to none chance he becomes Cameron Wake. But he's still 23. Wake was not good enough at 24 to even get a FA tryout (in 2006, I don't think) Wake was 25 before he even signed with the CFL and 27 before he played in the NFL. He doesn't know what it means to scratch and claw. Did you see the Pittsburgh game last year. Maybin got what.....3 snaps? On one, he took a wide angle around from left end and actually got a sniff of Roethlisberger but promptly got pancaked. He lay there, listless, flat on his belly for a good 2 seconds before realizing that the play was still alive, scrambling up and chasing Ben downfield 20 yards. That lack of competitiveness is rarely seen on the NFL level. It sticks out like a sore thumb. You are wrong if you think this kid has "scratched and clawed". There is a difference between working hard and competing hard. Are there a lot of years between Wake and Maybin? Sure, but the point is valid. In Wakes third year out of college, where Maybin is now, he lead the CFL in sacks. To me, the bigger issue is that Maybin has already been paid. If you aren't competitive, and can't find that spark after getting your asss kicked every day for three seasons I don't think it matters if you are 23 or 25. Edited August 7, 2011 by Dick Drawn
KD in CA Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Maybin runs as quickly as he can, but not as hard as he can. He comes off the ball like everyone else, but is not persistent when his initial push is stopped. He is not a fighter. The man is simply not competitive enough. Listen to the coaches. They are trying to flip that switch because they think he is salvageable. But it's not happening. This sums it up on Maybin. The guy has no heart, and you can't coach heart.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 This sums it up on Maybin. The guy has no heart, and you can't coach heart. Complicating matters is that the coaches really can't come out and openly question a players toughness. That is absolutely, positively out of bounds for a coach at the NFL level. Hence, the confusion among fans about why he is so utterly ineffective.
K-9 Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Complicating matters is that the coaches really can't come out and openly question a players toughness. That is absolutely, positively out of bounds for a coach at the NFL level. Hence, the confusion among fans about why he is so utterly ineffective. This is true also. Gailey has been skirting around the edges a bit by suggesting in the media that Maybin needs to work harder but I've felt he's really been questioning his toughness all along as well. I didn't know there was any confusion among fans as to why he's been ineffective. That's rather self-evident, isn't it? GO BILLS!!!
hondo in seattle Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 If you look at Nix's two drafts you will see that he is primarily addressing the defense. He is jettisoning the Jauron approach of light and quick mentality to being bigger and tougher. That goes to addressing your concern of building a foundation. This is one of the things that's slowing down the rebuilding process. The Bills aren't simply switching from a base 4-3 to a base 3-4. They are also trying to build a bigger defense with players who can shed blocks and bring guys down.
Dorkington Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 I was under the impression that Maybin tries like hell and has "heart", but simply doesn't have the size and right skill set for the position. The man is physically gifted, I'd like to see him tried out at some other position while we have room on the roster, but if he doesn't pick anything up, then cut cut cut.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 This is true also. Gailey has been skirting around the edges a bit by suggesting in the media that Maybin needs to work harder but I've felt he's really been questioning his toughness all along as well. I didn't know there was any confusion among fans as to why he's been ineffective. That's rather self-evident, isn't it? GO BILLS!!! Unfortunately, there is a ton of confusion. Ranging from that he has no talent whatsoever or that he doesn't have the minimum frame to survive in the NFL or that he simply has no instincts or that he's just out of position. He's never going to have the talent to get by without going balls out. But there are plenty of good players in the NFL with less talent. I was under the impression that Maybin tries like hell and has "heart", but simply doesn't have the size and right skill set for the position. The man is physically gifted, I'd like to see him tried out at some other position while we have room on the roster, but if he doesn't pick anything up, then cut cut cut. You know how some receivers short arm a pass when they are about to get creamed? And the former player doing color always says they should catch it because they are going to get creamed anyway? There is a parallel between this and Maybin's hang up. He's like the Todd Pinkston of pass rushers. He is going to get smacked by those offensive tackles, so he might as well bring something to the fight. He doesn't have the fight in him that is necessary for him to contribute. And that does apply to his size. If he was willing to fight, he wouldn't be showing up to camp at 228. He refuses to play the rough game and he's not good enough to make it otherwise.
stony Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Has anyone just thought about how uncoordinated Maybin might be. I might be 'dumbing' it down a bit, but it could be true. A lot of people (myself included) think he's athletic enough to excel in the NFL, but perhaps even worse than his marginal football instincts is his ridiculous inability to control body movements in a way he can beat NFL quality tackles. IMO, he seems to "flail" a lot out on the field. He has no counter-moves because I think he would end up on his azz if he tried a spin move from time to time, hence the repeated attempts to use his outside speed rush. It works sometimes, but even Eric Pears can catch on to that eventually. Just a thought.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Has anyone just thought about how uncoordinated Maybin might be. I might be 'dumbing' it down a bit, but it could be true. A lot of people (myself included) think he's athletic enough to excel in the NFL, but perhaps even worse than his marginal football instincts is his ridiculous inability to control body movements in a way he can beat NFL quality tackles. IMO, he seems to "flail" a lot out on the field. He has no counter-moves because I think he would end up on his azz if he tried a spin move from time to time, hence the repeated attempts to use his outside speed rush. It works sometimes, but even Eric Pears can catch on to that eventually. Just a thought. Bingo. He just has no instincts. There's nothing about him that suggests that he has a bad work ethic, that he's uncoachable, or that he's not tough. From his limited time on the field, it looks simply like that he's flailing around out there, clueless. Those are bad instincts, IMO.
wardigital Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 The bottom line is that you don't see 228 lb linebackers even in college football. Being such a light LB will get you killed in the NFL. If I'm the Bills, I'm evaluating plan B. Why they still insist on keeping him at LB baffles me. Try him at another position or release him. What is the mysterious "other position" that he can play? He was drafted as a DE. Already pushed back to LB. He doesn't have the speed for the secondary or wide receiver. He isn't strong or physical enough to block or own the middle of the field as a tight end. Do you want him just to be the world's tallest, most expensive full back? LB is the only spot for him. Either it works or it doesn't.
JohnC Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Your take on Maybin is only about what you see. Barbarian's view is about what the coaches see. Listen to what they say. Whether he lacks instincts or not is a world away from where this guys problems are. He isn't even close enough to being on the field as a line-up and dash upfield pass rusher, let alone diagnosing plays as a run and hit OLB. He can't get on the field because what he is doing is not enough and is not hearing what he is being told to do and transferring it to the field. Is he an elite talent? Did he warrant his selection based on his raw ability? Absolutely not. But more importantly, and why he is not even good enough to be the 53rd man on a roster, is that he is not tough and doesn't have the willingness or is just too stubborn or dumb to understand that there is another level of intensity that is needed to compete with the big boys. Maybin runs as quickly as he can, but not as hard as he can. He comes off the ball like everyone else, but is not persistent when his initial push is stopped. He is not a fighter. The man is simply not competitive enough. Listen to the coaches. They are trying to flip that switch because they think he is salvageable. But it's not happening. I hate when people make comparisons to their own amateur sports experience, but people are people regardless of what level they are at. I played on a team with a kid who had average talent who thought he was better than that and flat out came out and told the coach that he wouldn't "play the rough game" because he didn't think he had to. This is where Maybin is right now. I'm sure he is not telling the coaches "no", but he is showing them "no" by coming into camp at 228 pounds and not playing like his life depended on it. I've used the comparison before: Cameron Wake and Maybin both played at Penn State and are remarkably similarly physically. Maybin went in round 1, Wake went undrafted. Wake said the experience of having to earn his keep in the CFL taught him the value of "toughness, versatility and want-to". When you see Maybin getting slapped around and not even reaching deep enough to even contribute on special teams you realize that these are exactly the traits that the wealthy and secure Maybin lacks. I mean, no offense, but it doesn't take a lot of instinct to stay in your lane and hit someone. The guy doesn't want it bad enough. Wake is basically the same type of athlete as Maybin, their lone outstanding physical attribute is explosive potential as evidenced by their leaping ability in agility drills. Otherwise, they are pretty pedestrian athletes for the NFL level. Wake went from dominating the CFL to 14 sacks last year in his second NFL season. Let me give you a simple reply: Maybin is simply not a good football player. Being a good athlete doesn't necessarilly translate into being a good football player. I believe he is doing the best he can. From a football standpoint he doesn't have it. A lot of people want to vilify him because he hasn't been productive (to put it mildly). From what I have observed he is clueless on the field with little understanding on what is going on. The problem with him is not his effort or desire; it is the morons who selected him in the draft when there were so many other better players available.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Bingo. He just has no instincts. There's nothing about him that suggests that he has a bad work ethic, that he's uncoachable, or that he's not tough. From his limited time on the field, it looks simply like that he's flailing around out there, clueless. Those are bad instincts, IMO. If there is nothing to suggest that he's not tough, then what does the fact that he doesn't even play special teams suggest? There are no instincts required to cover kicks. Run to the ball and stay in your lane. If you were really worried about losing your job in the NFL, would you try to make yourself useful to the team?
BADOLBILZ Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Let me give you a simple reply: Maybin is simply not a good football player. Being a good athlete doesn't necessarilly translate into being a good football player. I believe he is doing the best he can. From a football standpoint he doesn't have it. A lot of people want to vilify him because he hasn't been productive (to put it mildly). From what I have observed he is clueless on the field with little understanding on what is going on. The problem with him is not his effort or desire; it is the morons who selected him in the draft when there were so many other better players available. We both agree that he is lousy...........but do you think that the best he could do was show up for camp at 228 pounds? He was pushing 250 at his combine workout. You sure you are sticking to that story about doing the best he can? What about special teams? The idea that he is literally too uninstinctive to cover a kick is a bit far fetched.
Bill from NYC Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 That is laughable. You draft OT so your team can run the ball and have time to throw the ball. If Spiller turns into Jamaal Charles we will be able to run the ball better than any team in the league, and henceforth be able to throw at will (because we happen to have some guys that can do that pretty well already). That keeps the defense off the field and fresh, too. Actually, the above is laughable. Without good blocking, backs will not be successful. Drafting Spiller was putting the cart in front of the horse. But you know that right? Our record indicates that mistakes were made, as does our signing of yet another situational player.
The Cincinnati Kid Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 So my brother and I are at Training Camp today and he goes "Look at how big Maybin is..to bad he has no movement in his hips." My only reply: "Lets ask Shakira."
Bill from NYC Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Bill I totally agree with you in regards to building strong and talented lines on both sides of the ball. But you say it as if Nix has had ample time to do so. He's had two off seasons. What makes you think Nix hasn't decided to do what we know is needed, because he didn't trade back for Bulaga? So instead of Spiller you would rather have had us draft Bulaga at #9? Assuming we couldn't trade down. We would have had to try and make him a LT, then when he didn't work out move him to RT in 2-3 years, then feel like it was a waisted pick drafting a RT at pick #9. Bulaga got drafted exactly where he should have and made a RT by a contending team. This team cannot afford to be spending first round draft picks on Right Tackles. I think that you and I are almost on the same page. I am full of praise for Buddy in terms of how he has devoted resources to the DL. Where I differ is your last sentence. In 2001, Steve Hutchinson (a guard) was drafted 17th. His teammate, Jeff Backus (a decent Left Tackle) was drafted 18th. http://www.drafthistory.com/years/2001.html I would much rather have Hutch on my team. My point is that IF there is a blocker out there who is going to protect your QB and open holes for the running game, you take him whether he is a LT, RT, OC or OG. Jon Runyon was a 4th round pick, but he was a great RT. His teams went to the playoffs and superbowl all the time. I make the case that if Runyon was picked in the first round, he would have been a worthwhile selection. As for RBs, it's easy to get one later in the draft. And, much of their success depends on the people up front. I hope Spiller is a superstar, but he is going to need blocking.
Orton's Arm Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I think that you and I are almost on the same page. I am full of praise for Buddy in terms of how he has devoted resources to the DL. Where I differ is your last sentence. In 2001, Steve Hutchinson (a guard) was drafted 17th. His teammate, Jeff Backus (a decent Left Tackle) was drafted 18th. http://www.drafthistory.com/years/2001.html I would much rather have Hutch on my team. My point is that IF there is a blocker out there who is going to protect your QB and open holes for the running game, you take him whether he is a LT, RT, OC or OG. Jon Runyon was a 4th round pick, but he was a great RT. His teams went to the playoffs and superbowl all the time. I make the case that if Runyon was picked in the first round, he would have been a worthwhile selection. As for RBs, it's easy to get one later in the draft. And, much of their success depends on the people up front. I hope Spiller is a superstar, but he is going to need blocking. It's possible that Triple Threat was trying to say that the Bills shouldn't use something as valuable as a top-10 pick on a RT, but that it's okay to take a RT later on in the first round. (If this was indeed his point he was a bit sloppy about communicating it.) It's normal for teams to draft interior OL with picks in the second half of the first round. A good RT is more valuable and harder to find than a good interior OL. I'd have no objection to using a pick later in the first round on a RT, as long as he was good enough to be worthy of his draft position.
NoSaint Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 We both agree that he is lousy...........but do you think that the best he could do was show up for camp at 228 pounds? He was pushing 250 at his combine workout. You sure you are sticking to that story about doing the best he can? What about special teams? The idea that he is literally too uninstinctive to cover a kick is a bit far fetched. He was a mess at 250. Did you catch his 40? His shuttles and cones?
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