GG Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 You're leaning on something known as the Nirvana Fallacy, which essentially assumes that any small movement in the right direction is useless because it doesn't completely solve the problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy It's also a fallacy that this movement in the right direction is going to have an effect. As with almost anything, top down efforts are not effective until the consumers themselves change their behavior.
Dante Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 So you are arguing that healthier choices on their menu is a bad thing? A healthier choice would be not to go to McDonalds at all. If you are going to McD's your not looking to eat healthy. Go to the market. Get some veggies and a piece of fruit. It's not McDonald's job to compensate for your(not you personally) bad eating decisions. I'm all for eating healthy but this is just more liberal backward thinking.
Heels20X6 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Are the apple slices with Happy Meals a new thing? They've been an option with the Canadian Happy Meals for a few years now. My niece and nephews love them because they come with a caramel dipping sauce, thereby negating the health benefits of the apples...go McD's!
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 You're leaning on something known as the Nirvana Fallacy, which essentially assumes that any small movement in the right direction is useless because it doesn't completely solve the problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy No, I'm arguing that people who eat at McDonalds are by definition do not have healthy eating habits to begin with. McDonalds changing their menu isn't going to change their customer's behavior. You're leaning on something known as the Idiot Fallacy, which essentially assumes that other people are as stupid as you are.
Peace Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 You're leaning on something known as the Nirvana Fallacy, which essentially assumes that any small movement in the right direction is useless because it doesn't completely solve the problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy It is useless. People don't go to McDonalds for healthy food.
Gene Frenkle Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 You're leaning on something known as the Nirvana Fallacy, which essentially assumes that any small movement in the right direction is useless because it doesn't completely solve the problem. http://en.wikipedia....Nirvana_fallacy That's a good one - never heard of that. No, I'm arguing that people who eat at McDonalds are by definition do not have healthy eating habits to begin with. McDonalds changing their menu isn't going to change their customer's behavior. You're leaning on something known as the Idiot Fallacy, which essentially assumes that other people are as stupid as you are. There's a spectrum of healthy/unhealthy here that can have a real effect on the population. I think it's fair to say that the number of calories a person gets from a meal at McDonalds today is far greater than the number of calories a person would get from a meal at McDonalds 20 years ago. Considering how McDonalds is absolutely EVERYWHERE in America, the portions they serve and the make-up of what they serve is a big deal and has real consequences. They're trying to make money, which is great, but they also have a responsibility to be ethical with regard to what they're feeding so many people. Most people probably don't eat there because they're specifically looking for an unhealthy choice - it likely has much more to do with cost and convenience.
Booster4324 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 No, I'm arguing that people who eat at McDonalds are by definition do not have healthy eating habits to begin with. McDonalds changing their menu isn't going to change their customer's behavior. The fact that the 1/2 fries/apples is going to become the default and people are sheep and tend to take the default there will be some good done by it.
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 A healthier choice would be not to go to McDonalds at all. If you are going to McD's your not looking to eat healthy. Go to the market. Get some veggies and a piece of fruit. It's not McDonald's job to compensate for your(not you personally) bad eating decisions. I'm all for eating healthy but this is just more liberal backward thinking. Healthier and cheaper. That's a good one - never heard of that. There's a spectrum of healthy/unhealthy here that can have a real effect on the population. I think it's fair to say that the number of calories a person gets from a meal at McDonalds today is far greater than the number of calories a person would get from a meal at McDonalds 20 years ago. Considering how McDonalds is absolutely EVERYWHERE in America, the portions they serve and the make-up of what they serve is a big deal and has real consequences. They're trying to make money, which is great, but they also have a responsibility to be ethical with regard to what they're feeding so many people. Most people probably don't eat there because they're specifically looking for an unhealthy choice - it likely has much more to do with cost and convenience. Y'know what I'm going to do for lunch? I'm going to go to McD's, order a quarter pounder with cheese meal, supersized...then complain that they're unethical for selling me the three-gallon Coke that I asked for. "Ethical responsibility." They have an ethical responsibility to not kill their customers a-la Jack In The Box...but why should McDonald's have any ethical responsibility to make people eat healthier who themselves are choosing not to eat healthy by going to McDonald's in the first !@#$ing place???? When did it become an ethical requirement for anyone to protect others from their own stupidity?
Magox Posted July 28, 2011 Author Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) That was a very astute point that you referenced Sage, and I am completely in agreement with the suggestion that I believe you are making. That was my own internal thinking, the point that many people fail to realize is that this isn't THE solution to this particular problem or for that matter doesn't even come close to solving it but it is a movement in the right direction that with enough inertia that could lead to more responsible not just eating habits but food provider services. No one says that people go to McDonalds for healthy eating, and its a ridiculous point to even bring up . I don't expect any of you to change your minds, and frankly I don't care, but what I do know is that these sort of decisions made from companies as large as McDonald's can have an impact on other companies as well. Next thing you see is all of a sudden now Burger King wants to get in on the "healthier" option, then it carries over to Wendy's then to the next competitor and so on. Not only does it have this possible rollover effect on other fast food providers, but there is an actual tangible effect of providing less fat calories grams to their consumers (children). If for example they are cutting out 100 fat grams of food (just giving an example) per happy meal, and you multiply that by the amount of Happy Meals sold in the U.S per year, that comes out to a whole hell of a lot of Fat grams cut out in childrens diets in a year. It's ok if you dont believe it will make a bit of difference, even though I'm quite sure it will in the long run. But what I have a hard time understanding is how can you be against such an idea or effort. It's difficult for me to fathom. Again, great reference Sage, I gotta applaud you for that, I didn't know how to put that reference into context, as a matter of fact I never even had heard of such an effect, but that is pretty damn close to what I was thinking inside my head. There is no Silver bullet solution, it will take many ideas and solutions to having a healthier society here in the U.S And considering that a large source of our FATASSITUS disease we have here in the U.S comes from the fast food industry, then it is only logical from my perspective that one of the thousands of solutions that will be needed to attack this epidemic successfully will be to chip away at directly at the fast food industry itself. No, I'm arguing that people who eat at McDonalds are by definition do not have healthy eating habits to begin with. That is absolutely not true, I eat there once in a while and I'm certain that I eat much healthier food than the majority of people here in the U.S Edited July 28, 2011 by Magox
erynthered Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I never should have started reading this thread. Just got back from Mc'D's drive thru. Big Mac, Med Fry's, Med Sprite and a cheesburger. Thanks alot guys
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I never should have started reading this thread. Just got back from Mc'D's drive thru. Big Mac, Med Fry's, Med Sprite and a cheesburger. Thanks alot guys I thought about going to McD's...but the rule is I only eat red meat when PETA does something stupid, which they haven't today.
jjamie12 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Isn't the whole point here that when Mom and/or Dad decide to go to McD's for a quick bite they can now have the alternative of giving their kids apple slices instead of fries in their Happy Meal? How is this a bad thing? If you think it doesn't matter, why comment on this at all?
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 No, I'm arguing that people who eat at McDonalds are by definition do not have healthy eating habits to begin with. McDonalds changing their menu isn't going to change their customer's behavior. You're leaning on something known as the Idiot Fallacy, which essentially assumes that other people are as stupid as you are. I like the part where you punned my words as a vehicle for calling me stupid. Very original. You're correct. Most people who regularly (by this I mean any more than 2 times per week) eat at McDonald's don't display healthy eating habits. But people, even on a large scale, do have the capacity to change. Who's to say this can't be an early domino to fall in changing American eating habits if people embrace it? It's cynics like yourself saying "Ha! As if that could make a difference." who prevent such an attitude shift from occurring. As Magox pointed out, McDonald's is a trend setter. If they profit off of this (and they will), the rest will follow. People (especially children) have to stop stuffing their faces with unnecessary fat and sodium. If McDonald's wants to make an effort to get kids eating apple slices instead of french fries, I applaud that. Gotta get the ball rolling somewhere.
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I like the part where you punned my words as a vehicle for calling me stupid. Very original. You're correct. Most people who regularly (by this I mean any more than 2 times per week) eat at McDonald's don't display healthy eating habits. But people, even on a large scale, do have the capacity to change. Who's to say this can't be an early domino to fall in changing American eating habits if people embrace it? It's cynics like yourself saying "Ha! As if that could make a difference." who prevent such an attitude shift from occurring. As Magox pointed out, McDonald's is a trend setter. If they profit off of this (and they will), the rest will follow. People (especially children) have to stop stuffing their faces with unnecessary fat and sodium. If McDonald's wants to make an effort to get kids eating apple slices instead of french fries, I applaud that. Gotta get the ball rolling somewhere. Which is why it's so meaningless: not because it's a "small step", but because you're reversing cause and effect. People don't have poor eating habits because they frequent McD's...they frequent McD's because they have poor eating habits. Oh, it's a fallacy, all right...only it's not a "Nirvana fallacy," and I'm not the one holding it.
Peace Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) I like the part where you punned my words as a vehicle for calling me stupid. Very original. You're correct. Most people who regularly (by this I mean any more than 2 times per week) eat at McDonald's don't display healthy eating habits. But people, even on a large scale, do have the capacity to change. Who's to say this can't be an early domino to fall in changing American eating habits if people embrace it? It's cynics like yourself saying "Ha! As if that could make a difference." who prevent such an attitude shift from occurring. As Magox pointed out, McDonald's is a trend setter. If they profit off of this (and they will), the rest will follow. People (especially children) have to stop stuffing their faces with unnecessary fat and sodium. If McDonald's wants to make an effort to get kids eating apple slices instead of french fries, I applaud that. Gotta get the ball rolling somewhere. No, McDonalds is super late to this party. It's fine that they're showing up but if you go to McDonalds, you're not eating healthy.* I wish this board had been around when McDs started offering diet soda. You guys would have creamed your pants. *Except Magox, the sole healthy eating McDonalds eater. Edited July 28, 2011 by Peace
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 No, McDonalds is super late to this party. It's fine that they're showing up but if you go to McDonalds, you're not eating healthy.* I wish this board had been around when McDs started offering diet soda. You guys would have creamed your pants. *Except Magox, the sole healthy eating McDonalds eater. Not in terms of burger joints. At fast food places, the "healthy option" has traditionally been a fried chicken salad with more calories than the burgers themselves. In the fast food industry, McDonalds dictates everything. If they started making money off of pigeon meat, Burger King would start selling pigeon meat.
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 If they started making money off of pigeon meat, Burger King would start selling pigeon meat. But only 20 years later, and no one would know about it... I don't think Burger King's had a coherent marketing strategy in my entire lifetime...save possibly the "creepy stalker pedo-King" commercials.
Heels20X6 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 I thought about going to McD's...but the rule is I only eat red meat when PETA does something stupid, which they haven't today. http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/blogs/how-peta-got-punked May I suggest one of the new Angus burgers friend?
DC Tom Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/blogs/how-peta-got-punked May I suggest one of the new Angus burgers friend? Not quite stupid enough. Now THIS is the kind of stupidity I'm looking for.
Heels20X6 Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 Not quite stupid enough. Now THIS is the kind of stupidity I'm looking for. That's pretty dumb. Almost as dumb as believing sticking apple slices in a Happy Meal is going to get Fatty Arbuckle Junior on the road to weight loss and better food choices....
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