Eric moulds

[Buftex]

He didn't have HOF talent. He came into the league as a 4.6 guy with inconsistent hands. Most Bills fans were praying that Marvin Harrison lasted, because he had big time speed and quickness. Nowadays, receivers over 6'2" are common but back then Moulds was considered a very big target. He wasted his first two seasons being a complete idiot, then had an incredible breakout season in year three and never played anywhere near that level ever again. He clearly had a physical window of opportunity where he had it all, but by his fourth season he was starting to struggle to get open. The last half of his career he rarely caught anything that wasn't contested. He was a big, tough, mean WR but for most of his career he was little more than a posession receiver who was forced to bang because he lacked the ability to get open and make plays after the catch. Blame it on the QB'ing all you want but the truth is Kelly/Flutie/Johnson/Bledsoe weren't actually scrubs when it came to throwing the football to receivers. Most of his career he had QB's who threw to him often. The rash of utterly horrible, unproductive QB'ing was really the Losman/Edwards era which Moulds saw little of. Moulds not only lacked the intangibles of a HOF, he never had that kind of talent either.

 

 

I liked Moulds, but I agree, I am not sure he was the talent people are remembering him as. What I absolutely hated about his game, particularly after he lit it up that first Bledsoe season, he seemed to worry more about drawing interference calls, than trying to catch the damn ball...it really drove me nuts. It almost seemed, half the time, particularly as he got older, he gave up on plays, thinking the ref was going to throw a flag, rather than try to catch the ball...

[EasternOHBillsFan]

I loved Eric Moulds as well. I agree he had HoF talent and may have been inducted had he played on a different team. If he and Marvin switched teams, moulds would have been the HoFer IMO as well. We'll never know, only discuss it. His speed, power, hands and intensity made him a monster, only to be held back by his QB/OL. I miss him in a bills uni.

 

Sometimes I wonder why people have to put the failures of the whole team on the best player when they are surrounded by mostly average or worse talent. He deserved better, and like other great Bills of the past who suffered, will never be fully recognized by anyone outside of the fan base. Examples like Jerry Butler and Greg Bell come to mind- who could imagine working your butt off for year after year, only to see dreams crushed and the agony of losing eat up your soul despite the talent?

[BADOLBILZ]

You are way off.

You might want to use something other than your faulty memory as a source of information.

 

Let's just start with some basic stats that show you have no recollection of Eric Moulds' actual production.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm

 

What stats do you mean? Like his going from 20 ypc in his breakout season down to 15 in year four and then losing about another yard each year for the next 5 until he was barely worth a first down per catch?

 

I think you need to learn how to read a stat line kid. Even with Bledsoe on absolute fire for most of his first season in Buffalo, Moulds was not a big play guy any longer. And it's not like he was running all the tough routes and Peerless Price was just going over the top. Price actually did most of his damage on RAC stuff in the middle of the field. My recollection is perfectly clear.

 

The stats say that he quickly became a posession receiver after his one great season. But as Buftex pointed out, he never really accepted the role of a posession receiver. Even though he was always covered, he insisted on acting like the opposition was interfering to cover him instead of just facing the facts and banging out those tough catches and maximizing his value to the team. His denial of his long waning talent was the reason he was traded.

 

As for the HOF nonsense, I think you guys need to check out the stat lines on other receivers during the same time periold. There were TONS of big years by receivers then. Moulds was not even worthy of serious Pro Bowl consideration most of those years.

[BADOLBILZ]

Sometimes I wonder why people have to put the failures of the whole team on the best player when they are surrounded by mostly average or worse talent. He deserved better, and like other great Bills of the past who suffered, will never be fully recognized by anyone outside of the fan base. Examples like Jerry Butler and Greg Bell come to mind- who could imagine working your butt off for year after year, only to see dreams crushed and the agony of losing eat up your soul despite the talent?

 

I think you should check that stat line. He was not the great talent so many Bills fans recall him to have been. And fwiw, those QB's he had throwing the ball to him from 1996-2003 had decent numbers and those teams had mostly good defenses.

 

Would his numbers have been better had he played with Peyton Manning? You bet. Would Manning have tolerated his act? I doubt it. And don't think for a minute that when Reggie Wayne comes up for HOF consideration that the voters won't hold against him the fact that Harrison also put up astronomical numbers.

 

I would take Harrison at wr over Moulds 8 days per week. Harrison was a master of his craft. His quest for perfection mirrored what was going on in Indy. Likewise, Moulds mirrored what was happening in Buffalo. Less talent and less attention to detail.

[Defend Greece]

What stats do you mean? Like his going from 20 ypc in his breakout season down to 15 in year four and then losing about another yard each year for the next 5 until he was barely worth a first down per catch?

 

I think you need to learn how to read a stat line kid. Even with Bledsoe on absolute fire for most of his first season in Buffalo, Moulds was not a big play guy any longer. And it's not like he was running all the tough routes and Peerless Price was just going over the top. Price actually did most of his damage on RAC stuff in the middle of the field. My recollection is perfectly clear.

 

The stats say that he quickly became a posession receiver after his one great season. But as Buftex pointed out, he never really accepted the role of a posession receiver. Even though he was always covered, he insisted on acting like the opposition was interfering to cover him instead of just facing the facts and banging out those tough catches and maximizing his value to the team. His denial of his long waning talent was the reason he was traded.

 

As for the HOF nonsense, I think you guys need to check out the stat lines on other receivers during the same time periold. There were TONS of big years by receivers then. Moulds was not even worthy of serious Pro Bowl consideration most of those years.

Nonsense

[BADOLBILZ]

Nonsense

 

What's your argument? Check the stats. He dropped 6 ypc from 1998-2000 with the same QB and very similar QB production. In fact, the Bills QB production was better in 2000 than 1999 and his ypc still dropped. It's a fact, the guy had one great season then went into steady decline.

[1B4IDie]

What stats do you mean? Like his going from 20 ypc in his breakout season down to 15 in year four and then losing about another yard each year for the next 5 until he was barely worth a first down per catch?

 

I think you need to learn how to read a stat line kid. Even with Bledsoe on absolute fire for most of his first season in Buffalo, Moulds was not a big play guy any longer. And it's not like he was running all the tough routes and Peerless Price was just going over the top. Price actually did most of his damage on RAC stuff in the middle of the field. My recollection is perfectly clear.

 

The stats say that he quickly became a posession receiver after his one great season. But as Buftex pointed out, he never really accepted the role of a posession receiver. Even though he was always covered, he insisted on acting like the opposition was interfering to cover him instead of just facing the facts and banging out those tough catches and maximizing his value to the team. His denial of his long waning talent was the reason he was traded.

 

As for the HOF nonsense, I think you guys need to check out the stat lines on other receivers during the same time periold. There were TONS of big years by receivers then. Moulds was not even worthy of serious Pro Bowl consideration most of those years.

 

So you must still miss the fact that his stat line in his 7th season in 2002, which is 3 removed from his "breakout season", looks like this: 100Catches 1292yards 12.9y/c 10TDs in 15 games

If you think that's not a big play receiver and Peerless Price was, I wonder what Peerless Price's season looked like in 2002.

Oh yeah its real easy to find it looked like this:

 

94 Catches 1252 Yards 13.3y/c 9TDs in 16 games.

 

Yeah Price was way more of a big time receiver (in alternate Dick Drawn universe)

 

It sounds more like you have something personal against Moulds more than you understand his potential and talent.

 

Give it a rest you're way off base.

[BADOLBILZ]

So you must still miss the fact that his stat line in his 7th season in 2002, which is 3 removed from his "breakout season", looks like this: 100Catches 1292yards 12.9y/c 10TDs in 15 games

If you think that's not a big play receiver and Peerless Price was, I wonder what Peerless Price's season looked like in 2002.

Oh yeah its real easy to find it looked like this:

 

94 Catches 1252 Yards 13.3y/c 9TDs in 16 games.

 

Yeah Price was way more of a big time receiver (in alternate Dick Drawn universe)

 

It sounds more like you have something personal against Moulds more than you understand his potential and talent.

 

Give it a rest you're way off base.

 

No, the point is Moulds production per catch continued to decrease and it wasn't because of bad QB's or because some other receiver got to run the deep routes.

 

And you don't have an answer for that, do you? I thought not. A fact is a fact.

 

Moulds was the deep receiver on that 2002 team. Check the tape. At that moment in time, Price was a much better route runner and actually ran most of the wide receiver routes over the middle for that team(Reed, Reimersma and Centers also did a lot of work over the middle). Price SHOULDN'T have had better YPC numbers than Moulds, who Bledsoe routinely threw deep sideline to even though he was often blanketed.

 

Seriously, what is your argument?

[1B4IDie]

No, the point is Moulds production per catch continued to decrease and it wasn't because of bad QB's or because some other receiver got to run the deep routes.

 

And you don't have an answer for that, do you? I thought not. A fact is a fact.

 

Moulds was the deep receiver on that 2002 team. Check the tape. At that moment in time, Price was a much better route runner and actually ran most of the wide receiver routes over the middle for that team(Reed, Reimersma and Centers also did a lot of work over the middle). Price SHOULDN'T have had better YPC numbers than Moulds, who Bledsoe routinely threw deep sideline to even though he was often blanketed.

 

Seriously, what is your argument?

 

Eric Moulds Y/C was over 10 yards per catch every season he was a Buffalo Bill.

His 12 year Career Average is 13.1 yards per catch.

What is your beef?

 

My point is pretty simple, Eric Moulds has HOF talent.

 

Your point is you don't like when a veteran receiver tries to draw a flag, great for you.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

I think you should check that stat line. He was not the great talent so many Bills fans recall him to have been. And fwiw, those QB's he had throwing the ball to him from 1996-2003 had decent numbers and those teams had mostly good defenses.

 

Would his numbers have been better had he played with Peyton Manning? You bet. Would Manning have tolerated his act? I doubt it. And don't think for a minute that when Reggie Wayne comes up for HOF consideration that the voters won't hold against him the fact that Harrison also put up astronomical numbers.

 

I would take Harrison at wr over Moulds 8 days per week. Harrison was a master of his craft. His quest for perfection mirrored what was going on in Indy. Likewise, Moulds mirrored what was happening in Buffalo. Less talent and less attention to detail.

 

Mostly decent numbers???? Decent as in average... our teams made the playoffs by our DEFENSE, and any Bills fan worth their salt will be honest there.

 

Moulds wouldn't have HAD to act like anything other than a class act WR because his QB is Peyton Manning!!!! I mean you just proved my point- when you have a great offensive brain trust and QB, you're gold if you have skills like Moulds.

 

Could you imagine Marvin Harrison being pulled over in Buffalo ala Marshawn Lynch? Marvin Harrison could have easily been charged with premeditated murder, I mean come on.. poor example... poor.

[Ramius]

That's extremely petty, considering all of the BS Eric had to put up with over the years. He deserved a lot better and there were plenty of frustration moments from our HOFers and future HOFers.

 

 

Yup the very same one who stayed long enough for us to do him a better job

 

I don't care how long you've played or how good you were or what you've had to endure. You don't quit. Never. Play out the string and be done at the season's end. Quitting on any team, at any level, is simply inexcusable.

[BADOLBILZ]

Eric Moulds Y/C was over 10 yards per catch every season he was a Buffalo Bill.

His 12 year Career Average is 13.1 yards per catch.

What is your beef?

 

My point is pretty simple, Eric Moulds has HOF talent.

 

Your point is you don't like when a veteran receiver tries to draw a flag, great for you.

 

There are three guys on the Baltimore Ravens ALONE right now, none of which will ever see the HOF, who are very equivalent to Eric Moulds. Derrick Mason, Anquan Boldin and TJ Housh. Point is, guys like Eric Moulds are not HOF, they are just good players who had above average longevity. For half his career, Moulds couldn't even get open.

[BADOLBILZ]

Mostly decent numbers???? Decent as in average... our teams made the playoffs by our DEFENSE, and any Bills fan worth their salt will be honest there.

 

Moulds wouldn't have HAD to act like anything other than a class act WR because his QB is Peyton Manning!!!! I mean you just proved my point- when you have a great offensive brain trust and QB, you're gold if you have skills like Moulds.

 

Could you imagine Marvin Harrison being pulled over in Buffalo ala Marshawn Lynch? Marvin Harrison could have easily been charged with premeditated murder, I mean come on.. poor example... poor.

 

 

Marvin Harrison never had any run-ins with the law until after his career was over. Not one. The guy was a perfectionist on the field. Was he a strange creep? Maybe, but he executed his job to near perfection. Something tells me that the Indiana state police dept isn't any less inclined to racial profiling than Buffalo, but keep thinking your think.

 

This we do know; Moulds WAS a creep. Moulds was choking baby mama's out, not paying child support etc.. Hell, he was basically keeping the Bills legal counsel working full time by himself early in his career. Class act? He wasn't a class act on the field or off of it. That wasn't his game. Moulds was reviled for spitting in opposing DB's faces and cheap, dirty play. That was his game, mean and nasty. I know you didn't follow the career of Eric Moulds if you didn't know this. You gotta' be kidding me with that class act BS. The young Moulds made Marshawn Lynch look accountable by comparison.

[Rico]

I don't care how long you've played or how good you were or what you've had to endure. You don't quit. Never. Play out the string and be done at the season's end. Quitting on any team, at any level, is simply inexcusable.

Exactly. That's why as far as I'm concerned, Eric Moulds and Ruben Brown can both off.

[Tcali]

Eric moulds is one of my three favorite bills all time.

I think he would have been a hof with a different situation.

Anyways he has 9995 yards and I think we should sign him and throw him a 5 yard out.

That's it

borderline HoF talent.Suffered from mediocre to avg QBing.Bulked up too much at end of career

-prematurely lost some speed & maneuverability.

[BADOLBILZ]

Exactly. That's why as far as I'm concerned, Eric Moulds and Ruben Brown can both off.

 

Moulds and Brown both had very inflated opinions of their abilities. They thought the team was losing in spite of their efforts. The team was losing in great part because they were among the best players on the team and as the best players on the team they were not good enough to make much of a difference. It's one of the many problems with getting in a losing cycle like this. Regardless of how the team is doing, there is a hierarchy and when the best players aren't that good it's hard to raise the overall level of the team.

[Defend Greece]

Some are missing the point.

First I don't think he is a hof. I think he had the talent to be but we robbed him with constant coaching, and quarterback changing.

Second the point of the thread was I think we should sign him for a game, let Jim retire a bill and throw him one ball for five yards.

People who argue that he wasn't better than price are loopy. That isn't even debatable.

[BADOLBILZ]

Some are missing the point.

First I don't think he is a hof. I think he had the talent to be but we robbed him with constant coaching, and quarterback changing.

Second the point of the thread was I think we should sign him for a game, let Jim retire a bill and throw him one ball for five yards.

People who argue that he wasn't better than price are loopy. That isn't even debatable.

 

And you are wrong. He didn't have the talent.

 

There are two ways to be a HOF wr, be a great big play wr or be a great posession receiver. He was neither.

 

He didn't have the speed or elusiveness to be a big play wr over the long haul and he didn't have the hands or run the precision routes to be a great posession guy. It wouldn't matter where he was playing, he wasn't going to be a Jerry Rice or Marvin Harrison etc..

 

I mean, look at those stats. Serious was singing the praises of Eric Moulds 2002 season because in his 7th year he put up 100 catches and 1200 yards etc.. He also had a lower ypc than Andre Reed had in any of his first 13 seasons, including his 13th season when he had Todd Collins, Billy Joe Hobert and Alex Van Pelt as his QB.

[BuffOrange]

That's extremely petty, considering all of the BS Eric had to put up with over the years. He deserved a lot better and there were plenty of frustration moments from our HOFers and future HOFers.

 

Seriously. The guy put up with putrid QB & OL play with the utmost class for the better part of a decade. But oh no I'll never forgive him for that crucial '05 Miami game - we could've won 7 whole games that year if not for that meltdown!

[BADOLBILZ]

Seriously. The guy put up with putrid QB & OL play with the utmost class for the better part of a decade. But oh no I'll never forgive him for that crucial '05 Miami game - we could've won 7 whole games that year if not for that meltdown!

 

In 1996 Moulds was drafted to be a badly needed deep threat for Jim Kelly. The Bills had big plans that season. Instead, he was a complete waste of space. Kelly was frustrated to distraction by how disinterested Moulds was and the lack of a deep threat severely hamstrung the Bills offense and caused Kelly to go from an AFC Offensive Player of Year candidate in 1995 to retired twelve months later. Youthful indiscretion is understandable, but Moulds would have had no business crying tears of regret for his situation when he contributed to the departure of a HOF QB. Moulds career in Buffalo ended appropriately considering how he shortchanged Kelly.