zow2 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 As has been stated tonight, the owners voted on and approved their proposal. Whoopee! They kinda' need to approve the proposal that BOTH parties agree to.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 If it's stuff that was discussed and never agreed on that the owners put in, which I doubt, then it's a terrible thing, and possible dealbreaker. If it's stuff that the players either had no interest in, or is not their business or concern and has zero effect on their pay, which was mentioned on that same site just below, then it's just whining by the players. Personally, I think this is a combination of the owners being arrogant and celebrating before the contract is signed, and the players just posturing and hissy-fitting at the last minute. As well as DeMaurice being an idiot.
Wayne Cubed Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 It's not that they "slipped" things in the agreement that the players never saw. The owners approved their side of the agreement. In their side of the agreement, there are some issues that the players feel are unsettled. Like work mans comp, drug testing, etc. These CAN'T be settled without a union. But in no way, did the owners go "oh hey here are 5 more things we never told you, that we are just gonna stick in there." Basically, nothing to see here, move along...
K-9 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) When they interviewed Heath Evans on NFL Network a few minutes ago, they asked him specifically what the owners slipped into the new agreement. He hemmed and hawed and generally couldn't offer ANY specifics. He's just parroting the email D Smith sent out. I seriously doubt the vast majority of players have more than a cursory understanding of this supposed 300-400 page document. I call BS on this. GO BILLS!!! Edited July 22, 2011 by K-9
BillnutinHouston Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Just think about the average IQ level of the owners' side vs. that of the players' side. It's really an unfair fight.
Cash Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 That's what I get for clicking on a PFT link. Florio is basically a guy telling you about something he read on twitter. It would be nice to see some journalism here -- is there any truth to the assertions that the owners slipped in some non-negotiated riders in the deal they voted on? If so, how about finding out what type of things they were?
sir andrew Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Exactly. Until they can tell me exactly what the owners were trying to "slip by" the players, stop making excuses and ratify this thing. About time this stupid lockout ends already!!
Scrappy Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 They wanted to cancel the checks to the plantiff(s) for $10 Million a piece, that's probably the new holdup.
Fingon Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Why the hell do the players even care about revenue sharing? It doesn't effect them at all, and helps ensure every team can spend up to the salary floor.
Buftex Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Just think about the average IQ level of the owners' side vs. that of the players' side. It's really an unfair fight. And you assume this because?
Mr. WEO Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 The CBA was negotiated between the NFL and the NFLPA (that's D. Smith) for WEEKS. Everyone on planet Earth knew on Weds tht the owners were going to ratify on Thurs. If the players are claiming they didn't know what was in it until today can blame their union leader. After negotiating this deal, he has the balls to tell the players "there is no deal" today is pure face saving bull.
billsrcursed Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Just think about the average IQ level of the owners' side vs. that of the players' side. It's really an unfair fight. You have no idea what you're talking about... unless of course you have test scores for both sides in your possesion... do you?
Hplarrm Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Just think about the average IQ level of the owners' side vs. that of the players' side. It's really an unfair fight. However, they both have the money to hire smart lawyers and because the owners developed a system where they got the immediate benefit of having the colleges pay for training and developing their workers, they ended up with the disadvantage of not signing these players until they were adults. While most of these steroid infused behemoths were habitually used to being told exactly what to do by some higher authority, there was what I call the talented tenth of the now adult players like a Gene Upshaw, Drew Brees, Kevin Mawae and others who understood enough of what was going and what could happen that they swept up their beaten fellow players, listened to a bunch of smart lawyers and ran with the decert strategy. If you want to measure the relative stupidity then simply ask yourself whether the NFLPA or the NFL won the labor disputes of the late 90s and the late renegotiation. The demonstrable answer is that the guys with the IQ level of the owners were beaten so badly by the public dictates of Upshaw that they used the contractual reopener on the deal/ While some folks seem to delight in bleating how stupid the players were to hire an idiot like Demaurice Smith, my answer is could be. However, there are examples of smart lawyers (who also happened to be people of color) who part of their sticht was to be showmen or often shot off their mouths saying things perceived by many as stupid. Yet when the smoke cleared idiots like OJ (briefly since he is so morally reprehensible) and the Tot-Mom are walking around free. My sense is that you might want to wait for a little more reality to happen before you draw conclusions about who is smarter here in the battle between billionaires and millionaires.
DanInUticaTampa Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 The CBA was negotiated between the NFL and the NFLPA (that's D. Smith) for WEEKS. Everyone on planet Earth knew on Weds tht the owners were going to ratify on Thurs. If the players are claiming they didn't know what was in it until today can blame their union leader. After negotiating this deal, he has the balls to tell the players "there is no deal" today is pure face saving bull. Exactly. It really looks like the executiive committee for the players didn't keep the players updated on much of anything, and tried to cram everything in the last minute. But the accusation of "the owners slipped things in secretly" is looking less likely. The player reps haven't even seen the document yet, so how would these other players even know that secret things were slipped in??? sounds like they are pulling it out of thin air. And now that smith and co have gone over the document the owners ratified, they don't seem to hate it all that much. I expect a vote tomorrow.
Fingon Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 You have no idea what you're talking about... unless of course you have test scores for both sides in your possesion... do you? Let's see... People who made billions vs people who make money being athletes. I'd say there is probably a very large intelligence gap between the two. Hell, Cromartie can't even remember the names of his own children.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Let's see... People who made billions vs people who make money being athletes. I'd say there is probably a very large intelligence gap between the two. Hell, Cromartie can't even remember the names of his own children. And as we all know, Cromartie is representative of all NFL players AND all the NFL owners are self-made men who didn't inherit their fortunes. Seriously, I wouldn't assume anything about relative or native intelligence on either side. I would say that the owners are probably a lot more educated but as Hp pointed out, you're only as smart as your lawyers and besides that, stupid is as stupid does. It's a bit early for pronouncements.
Hplarrm Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Exactly. It really looks like the executiive committee for the players didn't keep the players updated on much of anything, and tried to cram everything in the last minute. But the accusation of "the owners slipped things in secretly" is looking less likely. The player reps haven't even seen the document yet, so how would these other players even know that secret things were slipped in??? sounds like they are pulling it out of thin air. And now that smith and co have gone over the document the owners ratified, they don't seem to hate it all that much. I expect a vote tomorrow. Given the level of the rancor between the NFL and the NFLPA, the foolish thing it appears to me to assume would be one that either side was not trying to do everything they could possibly do (and this means both legally they can do and illegally they can get away with. The one thing for sure with this is that it ain't over until its over and my sense is that it not only is reasonable for the players and their leadership to assume bad acts on the part of the NFL team owners, but in fact it is malpractice on the part of NFLPA leadership not to assume good faith until the contract is signed. The second thing that both the player and their reluctant partners the owners can almost certainly assume is that soon after the first snap of a ball that us fans will pretty much ignore who did what to whom in this labor dispute and make our ticket buying, Zubazz pants purchasing (and most important for the NFL collecting cash) TV viewing (also known as commercial watching) to the check cashers in the NFL be they owners or players. It is true that a labor dispute can be so nasty that it impacts the popularity of the game as we saw in baseball, However, all you need is a flat-out willingness to lie from folks like Clemens, Bonds, and McGwire and some at best willful blindness from the MLB and its owners and voila profits are back. Folks are just flat out naive if they really believe the NFL did not put every comma in the aggreement they voted for which is based at best on a handshake agreement and backroom aggreements on some details. My guess is that either the deal is pretty much what was agreed to and the union votes to sign off relatively quickly but it still is a good move to question the team owners character and rationality as a signal that every move they make in the future interpreting the CBA and writing is going to be not trusted until looked at with great scrutiny or the team owners did in fact approve their interpretation of the deal and that differs in some significant way from how the players interpret it. Even in this case my guess is that the players conditional ratify the agreement with specific items set aside for additional negotiation. This ball will then be sent back into the owners court and they can decide whether to let the season begin with these specific placeholder items set asoide for further discussion but these issues will not interfere with money making. Either way is fine by me as I really care most about whether there is football rather than ideological junk. I think this is true of both the team owners and the teammates as well.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) That's what I get for clicking on a PFT link. Florio is basically a guy telling you about something he read on twitter. It would be nice to see some journalism here -- is there any truth to the assertions that the owners slipped in some non-negotiated riders in the deal they voted on? If so, how about finding out what type of things they were? The piece we're discussing was actually written by Greg Rosenthal however Florio did pen the piece which preceded this one by about a half hour. Apparently part of the surprise is a discussion of the supplemental revenue sharing issue which a few of us here brought up yesterday… supplemental revenue sharing is how the high revenue teams compensate the low revenue teams. Florio has a pretty good take on that and here it is. The NFLPA reps are also leaking that they didn't see the complete document before the conference call. Looks like the players side is a bit shaky at the moment although it's probably a lot harder to keep a union of 1900 players apprised as opposed to just 32 owners. Edited July 22, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan
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