Your opinion going after Free Agent positions of need

[Kelly the Dog]

I wouldn't really consider Gaither a high caliber player. There's a reason he was talked of in trade rumors last offseason, and he didn't play last year due to injury.

I've never been able to get a real hold on Gaither as a player because of all I have read on him and little I have seen him play. I would let the Bills talent evaluators make that decision (didn't have much trust in them either but I think they're getting significantly better with Whaley replacing Guy, and Nix and Gailey a year into the job). I did recently see a good list of free agents where Gaither was near the top at RT, and I think the Ravens would like to re-sign him. He is likely a large upgrade from what we have at RT. And the trade talk was about him playing LT, not RT. He may not be worth it monetarily or physically at LT, but he could still be a solid starter at RT.

[BuffaloWest]

* Right Tackle

* Tight End

.....Both Protect The QB and help us run the ball.

 

Sign Poz

Dump Whitner

Sign Weddle from SD to replace Whitner

 

We need an impact Linebacker

 

Back Up QB....Take a shot on Vince Young? He may still have something....

[tombstone56]

* Right Tackle

* Tight End

.....Both Protect The QB and help us run the ball.

 

Sign Poz

Dump Whitner

Sign Weddle from SD to replace Whitner

 

We need an impact Linebacker

 

Back Up QB....Take a shot on Vince Young? He may still have something....

 

 

GEEZ I WAS with ya till you said VINCE YOUNG,, no friggin way i want him near this team..

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

I've never been able to get a real hold on Gaither as a player because of all I have read on him and little I have seen him play. I would let the Bills talent evaluators make that decision (didn't have much trust in them either but I think they're getting significantly better with Whaley replacing Guy, and Nix and Gailey a year into the job). I did recently see a good list of free agents where Gaither was near the top at RT, and I think the Ravens would like to re-sign him. He is likely a large upgrade from what we have at RT. And the trade talk was about him playing LT, not RT. He may not be worth it monetarily or physically at LT, but he could still be a solid starter at RT.

He had an injury in 2009 that opened the door for Oher at LT. During the offseason they declared that Oher was their LT and Gaither would be moving to RT. He then held out of camps due to his being unhappy about this move. He ended up injuring his back and being placed on IR before playing a down last season.

 

He has an injury history with back and neck issues, and also a history of being kind of a head case. And also has refused to play RT for one of the better teams in the league.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I've never been able to get a real hold on Gaither as a player because of all I have read on him and little I have seen him play. I would let the Bills talent evaluators make that decision (didn't have much trust in them either but I think they're getting significantly better with Whaley replacing Guy, and Nix and Gailey a year into the job). I did recently see a good list of free agents where Gaither was near the top at RT, and I think the Ravens would like to re-sign him. He is likely a large upgrade from what we have at RT. And the trade talk was about him playing LT, not RT. He may not be worth it monetarily or physically at LT, but he could still be a solid starter at RT.

Musing on O-tackles in general, FWIW, the consensus was that Gaither was a better left tackle in 2009 than Oher was in 2010.

 

 

In fact the interesting development of the two tackles which many lament the Bills missed on, Michael Oher and Bryan Bulaga is that it's very likely that both of them are possible Pro Bowl right tackles but maybe not good enough to play left tackle.

 

Based on where the Bills were picking in both of those drafts, it is still debatable whether a possible Pro Bowl right tackle would be the right selection as an (approximate) 10th pick overall (although anyone would be better than Maybin).

 

The other tackle that the Bills missed on last year is Rodger Saffold who had a great rookie year at left tackle (pushing former Top 5 pick, Jason Smith over to right tackle). But Saffold was taken early in the 2nd round so in that sense, many teams missed on him.

 

Of the other highly rated tackles drafted recently (Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe, Trent Williams, Russell Okung) they were all taken before the Bills pick and none of them were immediate stars and In fact, Jason Smith, Andre Smith, and Eugene Monroe have been considered disappointing.

 

I agree with our NYC contingent that the Bills have neglected O-tackle a bit too much since the Mike Williams failure but if you look closely at the last five years, for the most part the value has not been there when the Bills picked.

 

Even in years past, guys like Ryan Clady and Branden Albert are not considered great players… very good, yes.

 

The truth is that the best tackles to enter the league recently are probably Joe Thomas, Jake Long, and D Ferguson… but none of them are viewed as future HOFers like the recent era where Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden and Tony Mandarich were all playing at the same time.

 

It's nice to think about having/investing in a great left offensive tackle but it's MUCH harder to actually get one who actually pans out for you.

 

I wonder how much Gaither will end up getting. He was looking like an excellent up-and-coming player before he washed out in 2010.

 

 

[Mark Long Beach]

In fact the interesting development of the two tackles which many lament the Bills missed on, Michael Oher and Bryan Bulaga is that it's very likely that both of them are possible Pro Bowl right tackles but maybe not good enough to play left tackle.

 

I'd still take them!

 

The other tackle that the Bills missed on last year is Rodger Saffold who had a great rookie year at left tackle (pushing former Top 5 pick, Jason Smith over to right tackle). But Saffold was taken early in the 2nd round so in that sense, many teams missed on him.

Staffold was one of the players we were rumored to be trying to trade up for that year. This was much more believable to me than the Tim Tebow rumor.

 

I agree with our NYC contingent that the Bills have neglected O-tackle a bit too much since the Mike Williams failure but if you look closely at the last five years, for the most part the value has not been there when the Bills picked.

 

Yeah, me as well. Although with 22 players that start and a whole host of subs that are equivalent to starters and ONLY 1 first rounder per year, we pretty much will always have some position that is getting the short end of the stick.

 

We've also not been successful at keeping the three good tackles that we've had recently. Jason Peters was a good left tackle that wanted to be paid like the best in the game, Butler was solid but retired early, and Langston was a pretty good RT that our last coaching staff handled so poorly that we cut him for nothing.

 

The truth is that the best tackles to enter the league recently are probably Joe Thomas, Jake Long, and D Ferguson… but none of them are viewed as future HOFers like the recent era where Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden and Tony Mandarich were all playing at the same time.

 

I suspect Jake Long will have a pretty good shot at it.

 

It's nice to think about having/investing in a great left offensive tackle but it's MUCH harder to actually get one who actually pans out for you.

 

Sort of like finding ANY great player at a single position? But yes, I agree, some like LT & QB are harder than others to find.

 

Nice post BTW!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Nice post BTW!

Don…

 

Donk…

 

Donkey…

 

Donkey Shen!

 

 

[sllib olaffub]

Musing on O-tackles in general, FWIW, the consensus was that Gaither was a better left tackle in 2009 than Oher was in 2010.

 

 

In fact the interesting development of the two tackles which many lament the Bills missed on, Michael Oher and Bryan Bulaga is that it's very likely that both of them are possible Pro Bowl right tackles but maybe not good enough to play left tackle.

 

Based on where the Bills were picking in both of those drafts, it is still debatable whether a possible Pro Bowl right tackle would be the right selection as an (approximate) 10th pick overall (although anyone would be better than Maybin).

 

The other tackle that the Bills missed on last year is Rodger Saffold who had a great rookie year at left tackle (pushing former Top 5 pick, Jason Smith over to right tackle). But Saffold was taken early in the 2nd round so in that sense, many teams missed on him.

 

Of the other highly rated tackles drafted recently (Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe, Trent Williams, Russell Okung) they were all taken before the Bills pick and none of them were immediate stars and In fact, Jason Smith, Andre Smith, and Eugene Monroe have been considered disappointing.

 

I agree with our NYC contingent that the Bills have neglected O-tackle a bit too much since the Mike Williams failure but if you look closely at the last five years, for the most part the value has not been there when the Bills picked.

 

Even in years past, guys like Ryan Clady and Branden Albert are not considered great players… very good, yes.

 

The truth is that the best tackles to enter the league recently are probably Joe Thomas, Jake Long, and D Ferguson… but none of them are viewed as future HOFers like the recent era where Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden and Tony Mandarich were all playing at the same time.

 

It's nice to think about having/investing in a great left offensive tackle but it's MUCH harder to actually get one who actually pans out for you.

 

I wonder how much Gaither will end up getting. He was looking like an excellent up-and-coming player before he washed out in 2010.

 

I agree - the Bills haven't necessarily had a perfect shot at getting a sure-fire O-tackle fall to them at their slotted position. But, there comes a time when failure after failure - or, in this case, a bad line year in and out - might push a coach/GM to decide that they are going to fix the O-line once and for all. If it were made a priority - and, I think that is what the issue here is, that it doesn't seem to have been a priority, that our F.O. has acted as if it could just get by without committing money and resources to the positions - then they might trade up to get a solid prospect, or they might just pick up a couple tackles early, and then maybe bring more in via UDFA and FA until they get it right.

 

I understand the thinking that the players weren't there at the right time in recent drafts, but I also believe if a different GM or a different coach were here, they might have gone about things in a different way to secure a much higher functioning line. It seems more a matter of where a coaches priorities are, and maybe what their resources are.

Nix seems like the type of GM who is going to sit still in his slotted positions in a draft, pretty much no matter what, and take what falls to him. If he happens to need a LT and the good ones go before him in 2 or 3 consecutive drafts, then he strengthens the team with what does fall to him. Another coach - maybe a Rex Ryan or a Bellicheck might just trade up and get their guy. That is part of the fun of being a fan, is seeing how well your franchise functions and how it's ideologies translate - unfortunately for us, until recently we've had the guys who just aren't good enough running things. Let's hope Nix and Co. are different.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I agree totally with both you guys (Mark and Sllib).

 

I hadn't heard Saffold was a possible Bills target… like everyone else I'd heard Tebow (which the Bills vehemently denied) and also former Georgia Tech star wideout Demaryius Thomas (who has recently gotten mixed up in a very bad situation).

 

I also agree that Langston was a pretty effective ROT. He didn't move real well but was fundamentally sound and had very long arms. That whole move him to left tackle and use a no-huddle offense was a complete fiasco… one of the most abject coaching failures in recent memory.

 

The assertion that after a decade of O-line futility that the excuses have to go out the window is also hard to argue against. The Bills have mostly been reactive in terms of O-linemen acquisition and for various reasons, that hasn't worked.

 

I agree that Nix appears to still be reactive but if he can eliminate the draft misses AND retain good players, reactive or proactive really doesn't matter.

 

Like most Bills fans, I'm hopeful that the current regime will make good things happen and you might as well enjoy the ride because getting there is half the fun.

 

In fact, if you end up not going anywhere special, getting there is even more than half the fun.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

But getting back to John's topic (and aware that Harris is actually not available at the moment), I would say it's close.

 

Clabo's an above average player at his position but Harris has a better pedigree and is younger. I'm gonna guess that Harris is considered a better ILB than Clabo is a tackle.

 

But I think that right tackle is a slightly bigger need than ILB. It's almost too close to call. I'd almost take Harris between the two.

 

I would take Miller/Boss before Harris or Clabo however. JMO.

[Mark Long Beach]

But getting back to John's topic (and aware that Harris is actually not available at the moment), I would say it's close.

 

Clabo's an above average player at his position but Harris has a better pedigree and is younger. I'm gonna guess that Harris is considered a better ILB than Clabo is a tackle.

 

But I think that right tackle is a slightly bigger need than ILB. It's almost too close to call. I'd almost take Harris between the two.

 

I would take Miller/Boss before Harris or Clabo however. JMO.

 

My opinion has changed from my younger days. Having run a company for the last 10 years has shown me that talent is just part of the equation. A talented guy is great, but if he doesn't fit in well with the ethos of the company or fit well with the other employees then he can be more of a liability than an asset regardless of his talent. It's probably not quite to the same degree on a pro football team because of the high level of competition, but it still matters. Especially if you consider the skill sets of the players.

 

A great 4-3 end wouldn't be a good addition to our team right now. Even if he was one of the better ones in the whole league. We just don't have the personnel for him to fit in well. Not to mention that we have way bigger holes in different places and I'd rather see those resources used to fill them.

 

The philosophy of the Pittsburgh Steelers (where we poached Asst GM Whaley from) is to rarely try and get their high quality starters from free-agency. Some of the reasons for this include that expensive free agents are exactly that, expensive:

-bigger gamble of resources on one guy who you don't know how well they'll fit in THEIR system

-gamble that now the player got paid he no longer cares.

-upsetting team chemistry from the imbalance of pay. (remember Peters unhappiness from the overpaid FA Dockery/Walker days?)

-may not truly be as talented as appeared because of excellent teammates or schemes that hid their weaknesses.

-etc.

 

While Nix hasn't IMO looked as conservative as the Steelers he sure has shown a reluctance to spend a lot on FA and has told us so himself. He looks more likely to pick up a lot of journeymen with the occasional medium respected players that aren't too expensive. Examples of that to me are Dwan Edwards & Andra Davis.

 

I expect Nix will pick up one or two Dwan Edwards type and not any of the more highly sought after (and expensive) players.

 

As a fan _I_ would treat it like fantasy football where any player is completely interchangeable and look for the best player available. I'd only consider lesser talent if who he was replacing was dreadful (see Bills TE position). If I were actually in charge of the Bills player acquisitions, I'd probably be way more conservative and be like Nix and not at all like the Redskins.

 

But for the record I sure hope Nix splurges on one of the top two fa TE's.

[Kelly the Dog]

My opinion has changed from my younger days. Having run a company for the last 10 years has shown me that talent is just part of the equation. A talented guy is great, but if he doesn't fit in well with the ethos of the company or fit well with the other employees then he can be more of a liability than an asset regardless of his talent. It's probably not quite to the same degree on a pro football team because of the high level of competition, but it still matters. Especially if you consider the skill sets of the players.

 

A great 4-3 end wouldn't be a good addition to our team right now. Even if he was one of the better ones in the whole league. We just don't have the personnel for him to fit in well. Not to mention that we have way bigger holes in different places and I'd rather see those resources used to fill them.

 

The philosophy of the Pittsburgh Steelers (where we poached Asst GM Whaley from) is to rarely try and get their high quality starters from free-agency. Some of the reasons for this include that expensive free agents are exactly that, expensive:

-bigger gamble of resources on one guy who you don't know how well they'll fit in THEIR system

-gamble that now the player got paid he no longer cares.

-upsetting team chemistry from the imbalance of pay. (remember Peters unhappiness from the overpaid FA Dockery/Walker days?)

-may not truly be as talented as appeared because of excellent teammates or schemes that hid their weaknesses.

-etc.

 

While Nix hasn't IMO looked as conservative as the Steelers he sure has shown a reluctance to spend a lot on FA and has told us so himself. He looks more likely to pick up a lot of journeymen with the occasional medium respected players that aren't too expensive. Examples of that to me are Dwan Edwards & Andra Davis.

 

I expect Nix will pick up one or two Dwan Edwards type and not any of the more highly sought after (and expensive) players.

 

As a fan _I_ would treat it like fantasy football where any player is completely interchangeable and look for the best player available. I'd only consider lesser talent if who he was replacing was dreadful (see Bills TE position). If I were actually in charge of the Bills player acquisitions, I'd probably be way more conservative and be like Nix and not at all like the Redskins.

 

But for the record I sure hope Nix splurges on one of the top two fa TE's.

Good post and I agree completely. It does seem, however, that certain positions are chemistry positions and others are not, or at least not as much as others. TE seems to be a position that isn't as important chemistry wise, except for between QB and TE. Any offensive or defensive line position, and linebacker, it's important to mesh as a team, or at least a unit. WRs don't seem to really feed off each other as much as they need to serve different functions so the full offense can be utilize to best effect. Defensive backfield guys have to work well as a four person unit much more than as a defensive team element, although obviously any defense is better when all 11 are working as one.

 

Running backs work better finding holes based on the blocking instincts and performance of their line, and surely if you have a RB who has ran behind the same line for a few years he will be better at picking holes. But RBs seem to be able to pick holes or not depending on their running style. Of course, there are exceptions to all of these trends and observations.

 

And, of course, individually, better players can usually adapt better to the rest of the line, part of the reason they are better players.

 

I agree with your thesis, but great and very good players will adapt. We need a talent influx, and good coaching that sees what they have and puts players and groups of players in a position to succeed.

[Mark Long Beach]

Good post and I agree completely. It does seem, however, that certain positions are chemistry positions and others are not, or at least not as much as others. TE seems to be a position that isn't as important chemistry wise, except for between QB and TE. Any offensive or defensive line position, and linebacker, it's important to mesh as a team, or at least a unit. WRs don't seem to really feed off each other as much as they need to serve different functions so the full offense can be utilize to best effect. Defensive backfield guys have to work well as a four person unit much more than as a defensive team element, although obviously any defense is better when all 11 are working as one.

 

Running backs work better finding holes based on the blocking instincts and performance of their line, and surely if you have a RB who has ran behind the same line for a few years he will be better at picking holes. But RBs seem to be able to pick holes or not depending on their running style. Of course, there are exceptions to all of these trends and observations.

 

And, of course, individually, better players can usually adapt better to the rest of the line, part of the reason they are better players.

 

I agree with your thesis, but great and very good players will adapt. We need a talent influx, and good coaching that sees what they have and puts players and groups of players in a position to succeed.

 

The more the player is on an island the more likely pure talent matters. So TE is a good example, and I believe we need a major improvement there. But even an apparently obvious example like a cornerback isn't so obvious, there's a lot of scheme that matters for them too. A good pass rush makes every db look better. We've also switched up a bit in our zone & man schemes last year and IMO our CB's weren't able to play as effectively as before. Some man CB's can't play zone worth a hoot and certainly vice-versa. yeah, better players can generally adapt, but I think that I'm preaching to the choir here.

 

But I agree with the need for more talent. We just don't have many star level players and our depth is generally poor. I hope that our coaching is better than before. It seems to be in many areas. Especially offense. Before we really seemed to not do a great job of putting the best players out there and in the best situation to succeed. Chan seems to do that with the offense (still skeptical on Def).

 

Even though our record was poor last year, I enjoyed watching the team so much more than the previous years. I also felt like we were working on playing to win and learning the skills needed to do that. I rarely felt that way in the DJ years. He had a better record but I never felt like we could WIN a game, the best we could do was keep it close and hope that the other team lost it. Bleah. We could never go out and seize a game and win it even with a lead (see Dallas on Monday Night).

 

Here's to that changing!

[Mr_Blizzard]

We need a friggin tight end.

 

Definitely a need; can we swing a TE and RT in this free-agent season? (when/if it ever starts?)