What about the O-line?

[CookieG]

Actually he was and did and played lg as well

And he dealt with injury problems

 

Actually, he wasn't.

 

He started 2 games in Sept 09 when Gallery got injured and 2 games after that at LT when Green hurt his calf. He didn't start another game in 2009. Green started the remainder of the games at RT, except maybe one or 2 with Kalif Barnes.

 

After being cut by the Raiders at the beginning of the 2010 season, he was signed by Jax for a week when Eben Britton got hurt. He cut a week later in favor of the extremely below average Jordan Black. This is his 4th team, except for some fill in duty in 2009 and 1 game last year, he hasn't been a full time starter for 4 years.

 

I seriously hope Buddy's trying to play some type of poker game before FA, but I doubt most GM's are believing him.

[CookieG]

That will only happen once the staff changes and they hire people that know how to do their jobs or ownership changes, or both.

 

What is amazing is this stuff has been going on for more then a decade with no end in sight, because the stadium is filled every year.

 

It is a simple a matter of changing priorities.

 

It isn't that difficult. They just have to change their mindset.

[DanInUticaTampa]

The GMs aren't the only ones that don't beleive him. Though it is hard to tell what will happen with this type of free agency. I don't expect anything much, because the bills usually wait it out and are patient during free agency, which just won't work this year. If they grab just one decent starter (hopefully RT or TE), then I would consider it a victory since more than likely they might not get a decent starter in FA this year, just because it is going to be so fast paced and they just aren't aggressive enough.

[stony]

"I don’t see right tackle as high on the priority list," said the team's official newsman. "It’s fourth behind DL, LB and QB as I see it. The reason why is because of the aforementioned Erik Pears. He was a two-year starter for Denver before he fell out of favor there and bounced around since then. Is he a long term solution? That’s up to the coaches, but he’s at least a proven player at that position in the league and can hold the fort until they cultivate more talent."

 

Never said he was allpro, said he was good enough

 

Define proven. He's bounced around a bit for some bad teams, and now has ended up on the Bills. I'm no GM, but I was very surprised/upset to hear Buddy speak highly of him. That last game of the year he played in was all I needed to see. He's another in a long list of turds the Bills will try to polish before realizing he was a turd all along. I sincerely hope I am wrong, but it just reeks of a stop-gap type of move.

[Defend Greece]

Look Harvey lives in an imaginary world at rb we also drafted white

When I said look at the ravens and steelers games I was saying if our line can compete with them then they can compete with anybody.

Chandler can and will block and it wasn't like he was going to beat out witten and gates now was he

And how about worrying more about tge turnovers than a line that had a good rushing average behind it and for the defenses they faced held up pretty good in pass protection

[BillsVet]

Define proven. He's bounced around a bit for some bad teams, and now has ended up on the Bills. I'm no GM, but I was very surprised/upset to hear Buddy speak highly of him. That last game of the year he played in was all I needed to see. He's another in a long list of turds the Bills will try to polish before realizing he was a turd all along. I sincerely hope I am wrong, but it just reeks of a stop-gap type of move.

 

A lot of this "proven" nonsense comes from those who lap up every word Nix and the Bills website speak or write. The record speaks for itself with guys like Wrotto, Urbik, Pears, Colin Brown, et al. in that they've bounced around and now have ended up in Buffalo. Perhaps one of them becomes a starter who is reliable, but you don't find NFL OT's hiding on other teams practice squads or who've been on 4 teams in 3 years. That should be indication enough that a player really isn't starting grade.

 

I hope the team invests some UFA dollars in a RT, but I sincerely doubt it. Unfortunately, it won't be until the first games of the regular season when it becomes obvious a player isn't up to the task of starting. Then, as in the case with Cornell Green, people will see how foolish it is to rely on cheap UFA's or other teams practice squads, street free agents, UDFA's, and late round picks to build your OL.

[San-O]

A lot of this "proven" nonsense comes from those who lap up every word Nix and the Bills website speak or write. The record speaks for itself with guys like Wrotto, Urbik, Pears, Colin Brown, et al. in that they've bounced around and now have ended up in Buffalo. Perhaps one of them becomes a starter who is reliable, but you don't find NFL OT's hiding on other teams practice squads or who've been on 4 teams in 3 years. That should be indication enough that a player really isn't starting grade.

 

I hope the team invests some UFA dollars in a RT, but I sincerely doubt it. Unfortunately, it won't be until the first games of the regular season when it becomes obvious a player isn't up to the task of starting. Then, as in the case with Cornell Green, people will see how foolish it is to rely on cheap UFA's or other teams practice squads, street free agents, UDFA's, and late round picks to build your OL.

 

The Bills just never learn I guess: It would be fun to see all the scrubs they've brought in, but the list would be too long.

 

I hope they get a decent RT and give us a chance to see what the O-line can do with balance and some solid players.

[bills_red]

WHY do people keep talking about moving Bell to RT?

 

He is growing into the LT position...his agility and athletism is totally suited more to the left side then the power and road grating that is needed on the Right Side of a offensive line......

 

OK....here is the thing. If the ceiling is true about the cap and the bills are going to have to spend money AND there is a rookie scale then the bills HAVE to spend some money in order to meet the requirement.

 

Sure....we will probably sign some of our own free agents...BUT that wont spend all of it.....where else to spend money then the place where we continually take injuries and were picking off the cut wire for starters......

 

It only makes sense

 

I don't see how people r sold on him as out future LT.

Yes he has gotten better but still. I have hopes but why not get a top notch LT and move him to RT where imo he is just as good as run blocker at this point and Bell would be a upgrade at RT over what we have now.

 

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8996&team=2

[thewildrabbit]

You'd have point (except for the laughable "[every OL other than Wood and Levitre] wouldn't even be backups on other teams")...if health, reps, and time in the system meant absolutely nothing. Oh and the Vikes put a beatdown on the Eagles, and they have a pretty good OL, featuring "Pro Bowl" LT Jason Peters.

Perhaps I should have worded it differently, those players wouldn't even make the roster on a GOOD TEAM. More importantly they wouldn't make the roster of the division rival Jets-Dolphins-Patriots.

 

Still, it is my opinion. Its not laughable, Hangartner has constant back problems, Bell is always injured and the rest are scrubs.

 

 

Go back and look at the history of the O line of this franchise, when they have a good line the team wins, when they field a bad line they lose. Pretty simple to deduce that below average players simply won't get it done, and never will. Look at the history of the last ten years 30+ linemen and 10+ QB's, they go hand in hand.

 

What is laughable, is the fans here who think the Bills can pick players off the waiver wire and then will develop them into decent players with the very same coaches who thought Cornell Green was a decent starting RT

 

It is a simple a matter of changing priorities.

 

It isn't that difficult. They just have to change their mindset.

That mindset is deeply ingrained since the failure of LT Mike Williams in 02, I think they are afraid to select a tackle early because they were burned by Williams. Yet, they think nothing of all the other positions they have been burned on, like DE-DB et al

[thewildrabbit]

A lot of this "proven" nonsense comes from those who lap up every word Nix and the Bills website speak or write. The record speaks for itself with guys like Wrotto, Urbik, Pears, Colin Brown, et al. in that they've bounced around and now have ended up in Buffalo. Perhaps one of them becomes a starter who is reliable, but you don't find NFL OT's hiding on other teams practice squads or who've been on 4 teams in 3 years. That should be indication enough that a player really isn't starting grade.

 

I hope the team invests some UFA dollars in a RT, but I sincerely doubt it. Unfortunately, it won't be until the first games of the regular season when it becomes obvious a player isn't up to the task of starting. Then, as in the case with Cornell Green, people will see how foolish it is to rely on cheap UFA's or other teams practice squads, street free agents, UDFA's, and late round picks to build your OL.

it is just sad they way this team seems to gloss over so many linemen in hopes of finding a good one, then once they do find one they don't want to pay them appropriately.

 

Judging by the way this franchise puts a priority on the O line I highly doubt they will ever build a winner as long as RW owns the team. I just can't see regime after regime ignoring the line without some directive from above, especially considering the reputation of micromanaging this owner has gotten.

 

So fans here will always be dreaming about signing top free agents, even then I have to wonder if anyone in the org even has the ability to judge proper talent given the fact they brought in Green last year with no back up behind him.

 

 

 

Anyway, unlike everyone else I'm in no hurry to watch my favorite team get beaten down every week, the NFL stands for No Fun League when you know your team is going to suck again this year.

[Nanker]

Actually, he wasn't.

 

He started 2 games in Sept 09 when Gallery got injured and 2 games after that at LT when Green hurt his calf. He didn't start another game in 2009. Green started the remainder of the games at RT, except maybe one or 2 with Kalif Barnes.

 

After being cut by the Raiders at the beginning of the 2010 season, he was signed by Jax for a week when Eben Britton got hurt. He cut a week later in favor of the extremely below average Jordan Black. This is his 4th team, except for some fill in duty in 2009 and 1 game last year, he hasn't been a full time starter for 4 years.

 

I seriously hope Buddy's trying to play some type of poker game before FA, but I doubt most GM's are believing him.

 

So he wasn't an immediate impact player. I see. O Linemen never develop. His first years sounds a bit like this guy's.

 

After graduating from Wake Forest and going undrafted, he bounced around the league before landing a starting sport and achieving Pro Bowl status last season.

 

He was originally signed by Denver as an undrafted rookie free agent in 2004. He was waived by the Broncos and signed with the New York Giants and was on their practice squad.

 

The Giants released him and he was signed by the San Diego Chargers.

 

He was released by the Chargers and signed by the Broncos, where he was inactive for the final two games of the season.

 

He then went to NFL Europa and played for the Hamburg Sea Devils. He made the all-NFL Europa team, but was again waived by the Broncos.

 

The Falcons signed him to the practice squad on Sept. 21, 2005.

 

 

[Doc]

A lot of this "proven" nonsense comes from those who lap up every word Nix and the Bills website speak or write. The record speaks for itself with guys like Wrotto, Urbik, Pears, Colin Brown, et al. in that they've bounced around and now have ended up in Buffalo.

Urbik didn't bounce around. The rest, yes, and I don't expect much out of them.

I don't see how people r sold on him as out future LT.

Yes he has gotten better but still. I have hopes but why not get a top notch LT and move him to RT where imo he is just as good as run blocker at this point and Bell would be a upgrade at RT over what we have now.

 

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8996&team=2

Extrapolating the 2008 over a full season, last year Bell cut his sacks allowed in half and his penalties by 2/3, while missing the entire off-season and most of the pre-season, and still being injured during the season.

 

Perhaps I should have worded it differently, those players wouldn't even make the roster on a GOOD TEAM. More importantly they wouldn't make the roster of the division rival Jets-Dolphins-Patriots.

 

Still, it is my opinion. Its not laughable, Hangartner has constant back problems, Bell is always injured and the rest are scrubs.

 

 

Go back and look at the history of the O line of this franchise, when they have a good line the team wins, when they field a bad line they lose. Pretty simple to deduce that below average players simply won't get it done, and never will. Look at the history of the last ten years 30+ linemen and 10+ QB's, they go hand in hand.

 

What is laughable, is the fans here who think the Bills can pick players off the waiver wire and then will develop them into decent players with the very same coaches who thought Cornell Green was a decent starting RT

Wood, Levitre, and Hangartner could start for many teams, including the Jets and Dols. Bell, who isn't "always injured," would at least be an excellent backup LT and is still developing as a starter. Sure he wouldn't start for the Dols and Jets, but few other teams' LT's would. Urbik showed promise before getting injured and would similarly at least be a good backup. At RT is where I have concerns (not a Pears fan), but the rest of those guys would make a good starting O-line given they're (finally) completely healthy and have been in the system for a year now.

 

Getting back to RT, it's a shame that the lockout wiped-out the minicamps and OTA's, because I thought Hairston had a decent shot at being the starting RT. If the report that the Bills are interested in Clabo are true, and they get him, the O-line could be pretty good this year.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

Actually, he wasn't.

 

He started 2 games in Sept 09 when Gallery got injured and 2 games after that at LT when Green hurt his calf. He didn't start another game in 2009. Green started the remainder of the games at RT, except maybe one or 2 with Kalif Barnes.

 

After being cut by the Raiders at the beginning of the 2010 season, he was signed by Jax for a week when Eben Britton got hurt. He cut a week later in favor of the extremely below average Jordan Black. This is his 4th team, except for some fill in duty in 2009 and 1 game last year, he hasn't been a full time starter for 4 years.

 

So if he hasn't been a starter since '08, wouldn't that only be 2 years since he's been a full time starter? The 2009 & 2010 seasons?

Edited July 18, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[Doc]

So if he hasn't been a starter since '08, wouldn't that only be 2 years since he's been a full time starter? The 2009 & 2010 seasons?

Pears started every game for the Broncos from 2006-2007. He had an appendectomy that knocked him out for the 2008 season. The Raiders signed him as a RFA in 2009, he started a handful of games, and was cut prior to the 2010 season, re-signed and then cut again. He was signed by Jax, didn't pickup the system fast enough, and was cut. Then the Bills signed him. Can't say that's much to get excited over, although I did read that he was used as a TE in short-yardage situations.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

Pears started every game for the Broncos from 2006-2007. He had an appendectomy that knocked him out for the 2008 season. The Raiders signed him as a RFA in 2009, he started a handful of games, and was cut prior to the 2010 season, re-signed and then cut again. He was signed by Jax, didn't pickup the system fast enough, and was cut. Then the Bills signed him. Can't say that's much to get excited over, although I did read that he was used as a TE in short-yardage situations.

So 3 years then?

 

I'm surprised that Pears is the answer as well. Wrotto started 7 games at RT, seemed to solidify the position after it was deemed that Green was terrible, and had his contract extended after the season was over. Seems like it'd be his job to lose coming in to camp.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[Bob in STL]

Why Hangman at center and not RG?

 

Last year Wood played some center and he did ok. Gailey kind of called him out a bit but after the season he did give him some props. Wood is definitely a gamer, he plays injured, and he could be a star in the future.

 

For some reason the "experts" on this site do not like Hangartner but I think he has been mostly pretty solid, and until Wood beats him out in a competiton then Hang is the center. Urbik is a guy that TSW experts are ready to anoint as the next Billy Shaw. I say if he was that good no way does Pittsburgh let him go. I guess he has potential but lets see it on the field.

 

Bottom line for me is that if Wood moves to center then I worry about both RG and RT instead of only RT.

 

Most of the players on our OL are either unproven (Urbik, Pears) or journeymen (Hangartner, Wrotto, Rhinehart), or projects (Bell, Wang, Hairston). Other than Levitre and Wood that is what we have.

 

When I see this line open holes, protect the QB, and dominate in short yardage situations then I will believe it. Right now I still have to question the talent here.

[Doc]

So 3 years then?

 

I'm surprised that Pears is the answer as well. Wrotto started 7 games at RT, seemed to solidify the position after it was deemed that Green was terrible, and had his contract extended after the season was over. Seems like it'd be his job to lose coming in to camp.

Wrotto joined the Bills in October. It's possible he develops, but I'm not expecting much there either. Depending on what happens (or doesn't) in FA, if they just identify a RT and stick with him, it still should be better than last year.

Last year Wood played some center and he did ok. Gailey kind of called him out a bit but after the season he did give him some props. Wood is definitely a gamer, he plays injured, and he could be a star in the future.

 

For some reason the "experts" on this site do not like Hangartner but I think he has been mostly pretty solid, and until Wood beats him out in a competiton then Hang is the center. Urbik is a guy that TSW experts are ready to anoint as the next Billy Shaw. I say if he was that good no way does Pittsburgh let him go. I guess he has potential but lets see it on the field.

 

Bottom line for me is that if Wood moves to center then I worry about both RG and RT instead of only RT.

 

Most of the players on our OL are either unproven (Urbik, Pears) or journeymen (Hangartner, Wrotto, Rhinehart), or projects (Bell, Wang, Hairston). Other than Levitre and Wood that is what we have.

 

When I see this line open holes, protect the QB, and dominate in short yardage situations then I will believe it. Right now I still have to question the talent here.

I like Hangman, but Wood was drafted to played center and his injury was a huge setback. Now that he's healthy, I think he'll be given the center job and Hangman will be competing at RG (where he's probably best suited). I'd be fine with that, but if a guy like Urbik or Rinehart beats him out, so much the better. So the interior of the OL should be fine, at least. Bell is developing and is healthy, so that's a plus. And that leaves RT. If they address any one position in FA, that should be it. TE would be another.

[thewildrabbit]

Last year Wood played some center and he did ok. Gailey kind of called him out a bit but after the season he did give him some props. Wood is definitely a gamer, he plays injured, and he could be a star in the future.

 

For some reason the "experts" on this site do not like Hangartner but I think he has been mostly pretty solid, and until Wood beats him out in a competiton then Hang is the center. Urbik is a guy that TSW experts are ready to anoint as the next Billy Shaw. I say if he was that good no way does Pittsburgh let him go. I guess he has potential but lets see it on the field.

 

Bottom line for me is that if Wood moves to center then I worry about both RG and RT instead of only RT.

 

Most of the players on our OL are either unproven (Urbik, Pears) or journeymen (Hangartner, Wrotto, Rhinehart), or projects (Bell, Wang, Hairston). Other than Levitre and Wood that is what we have.

 

When I see this line open holes, protect the QB, and dominate in short yardage situations then I will believe it. Right now I still have to question the talent here.

The optimism around here gets me, I'll believe it when I see it also.

 

 

I duuno about the "experts" but Hangartner has persistent back problems, and seems to get pushed around a lot. Wood is an upgrade at center and the Bills played better ball with him there, the problem is who replaces him at G?

[Doc]

The optimism around here gets me, I'll believe it when I see it also.

 

I duuno about the "experts" but Hangartner has persistent back problems, and seems to get pushed around a lot. Wood is an upgrade at center and the Bills played better ball with him there, the problem is who replaces him at G?

The pessimism gets me. Again if you're so miserable, why put yourself through it?

 

And at worst, Hangartner replaces Wood. Removing snapping duties should only help him.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

Wrotto joined the Bills in October. It's possible he develops, but I'm not expecting much there either. Depending on what happens (or doesn't) in FA, if they just identify a RT and stick with him, it still should be better than last year.

 

I don't disagree. Wasn't saying I think Wrotto is the answer, just saying I find it surprising there are claims that Pears is when Wrotto was the starter for a larger portion of the season.

 

I would love to see a Marshal Yanda signing.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson