DukeyBomb Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 One is good and the other is not. Otherwise good comparison. They are both good, god that's gotta be one of the most unintelligent things I have ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 That's kind of in line with my point as well. If he leaves, it's because of the culture that Ralph has built. Whether it's the culture of the FO that lets players walk, or the general "Meh" culture around the team that drives players away. Look at how T-Pegs has invested into making the Sabres facilities state of the art. Then go take a tour of One Bills Drive. Then go look at facilities for the Ravens, Jets, etc. It looks like the Bills are stuck in the 80s (at best). Poz leaving is a bad thing for the Bills. Unless some team goes stupid and offers him a huge contract, it's Ralph's fault one way or the other. You mean that detestable culture that Poz has repeatedly professed his desire to continue to be a part of? Please refrain from comparisons to the Sabres. And I would hope that the Jets and Ravens facilities look good. They're practically brand new. At the time, the facilities in OP were state of the art and the Bills were among the first teams to have a practical indoor practice facility. Poz leaving may have absolutely nothing to do with RW, regardless of the size of the contract. But it's nice to have the pitchforks ready just in case. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'd beyond pissed. Poz is not Ray Lewis but he is a very solid LB. So now that we upgrading the d line in front of him, why let him leave? So while Poz may never be Patrick Willis, he is certainly good enough. I'm sick of this team creating unnecessary holes when they have solid players all ready. It's alosing cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'd beyond pissed. Poz is not Ray Lewis but he is a very solid LB. So now that we upgrading the d line in front of him, why let him leave? So while Poz may never be Patrick Willis, he is certainly good enough. I'm sick of this team creating unnecessary holes when they have solid players all ready. It's alosing cycle. So keeping the same players in place during a losing cycle can create a winning cycle ? I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 So keeping the same players in place during a losing cycle can create a winning cycle ? I got it. Watch what kind of player Poz becomes if he goes to the Steelers, Giants, or Pats. The problem Bills fans have is they blame the wrong players. Guys like Poz & Evans are hardly the reason the Bills are losing. But they catch a lot of blame. But let's keep making holes! That's the ticket to greatness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 So keeping the same players in place during a losing cycle can create a winning cycle ? I got it. No dummy, we keep Poz but let go of Ayodole and replace him with Sheppard. Just like you keep Kyle Williams and replace Stroud/McCargo/Johnson. You dont replace your "best" players, even if theyre not that great. You get rid of your WORST players first. Not that difficult of a concept to understand. You mean that detestable culture that Poz has repeatedly professed his desire to continue to be a part of? Please refrain from comparisons to the Sabres. And I would hope that the Jets and Ravens facilities look good. They're practically brand new. At the time, the facilities in OP were state of the art and the Bills were among the first teams to have a practical indoor practice facility. Poz leaving may have absolutely nothing to do with RW, regardless of the size of the contract. But it's nice to have the pitchforks ready just in case. GO BILLS!!! Im just saying IF he leaves (which I dont think he will). IF he leaves, the reasons can only be 1. He wants more money than we offered, or 2. He wants to play for a winning franchise. Again, outside of a team offering him a stupid contract, both of those reasons are on Ralph. It's pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Im just saying IF he leaves (which I dont think he will). IF he leaves, the reasons can only be 1. He wants more money than we offered, or 2. He wants to play for a winning franchise. Again, outside of a team offering him a stupid contract, both of those reasons are on Ralph. It's pretty simple. So the Bills should just offer him whatever he wants? There are legitimate reasons why the Bills feel he is worth X. Just as there are reasons Poz feels he's worth more. And hasn't he already professed his desire to stay with this NON WINNING franchise? If the money is equal and he decides that he'd rather go to a winning organization, isn't that on him since he already said he'd like to return? Stupid contract aside, the decision ultimately resides with Poz. What is the threshold for a "stupid" contract in Poz's case? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) So the Bills should just offer him whatever he wants? There are legitimate reasons why the Bills feel he is worth X. Just as there are reasons Poz feels he's worth more. And hasn't he already professed his desire to stay with this NON WINNING franchise? If the money is equal and he decides that he'd rather go to a winning organization, isn't that on him since he already said he'd like to return? Stupid contract aside, the decision ultimately resides with Poz. What is the threshold for a "stupid" contract in Poz's case? GO BILLS!!! Im not arguing against you half as much as you think I am. Ive never said we should offer him whatever he wants. You made that up. As a matter of fact, Ive said repeatedly in this thread that there is a threshold where we have to let him go. Im not a GM so Im not sure what that exact number is, but there are professionals at OBD who do. We should re-sign him. It should be easy to do so, even if the Bills were "cheap" about it. Poz has said he wants to comeback. We agree on a lot. The difference is, you say if money is equal and he chooses a winning franchise then it's Poz's fault for leaving. But I say, why arent WE a winning franchise? Whose fault is THAT? Edited July 14, 2011 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 So keeping the same players in place during a losing cycle can create a winning cycle ? I got it. Actually.....yes it can when said player is not the weak link. What you have to ask yourself is if Poz is a solid linebacker is a subpar D line in front of him......then it stands to reason he would be better with a much improved one. Ray Lewis had this same problem and whined for DL improvments in front of him and got them......just as a reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Watch what kind of player Poz becomes if he goes to the Steelers, Giants, or Pats. The problem Bills fans have is they blame the wrong players. Guys like Poz & Evans are hardly the reason the Bills are losing. But they catch a lot of blame. But let's keep making holes! That's the ticket to greatness! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Im not arguing against you half as much as you think I am. Ive never said we should offer him whatever he wants. You made that up. As a matter of fact, Ive said repeatedly in this thread that there is a threshold where we have to let him go. Im not a GM so Im not sure what that exact number is, but there are professionals at OBD who do. We should re-sign him. It should be easy to do so, even if the Bills were "cheap" about it. Poz has said he wants to comeback. We agree on a lot. The difference is, you say if money is equal and he chooses a winning franchise then it's Poz's fault for leaving. But I say, why arent WE a winning franchise? Whose fault is THAT? When you say reason 1 for losing him will be because "he wants more money than we offered" I think that sounds like we need to offer him what he wants to prevent his first reason for leaving. Yes, there is a threshold. It would be nice to know what that is but, like you say, there are people at OBD that do. My issue is that those people at OBD have a set of criteria for establishing the threshold that we fans, especially those that like a very popular player with good intangibles, don't understand, let alone accept. We make our decisions on players in a vacuum. They make it in the context of a full evaluation of that player's performance relative to the intangibles he brings to the table. Personally, I think there are more reasons to sign Poz because of his intangibles vs. his level of play. I've already debated the issue ad nauseum so there is no reason to rehash it here. I'll just say that I'm comfortable in my experience and ability to look at LB play and think that Poz is very ordinary in some regards and downright lacking in others. That's based on watching four years of play in two different systems and multiple personnel packages. But I also hold a glimmer of hope that, in the event they keep him, The Stache can be that Inside LB Coach he was supposedly hired to be and get better play from the group as a whole and Poz in particular. We'll see. I am purposely going to avoid getting into another "Ralph is the reason we suck" debate. I also won't use the term "fault" if Poz leaves. I'll continue to say it will be he his decision if he does. Nobody is at "fault." I can accept the fact that two sides disagree. I don't need to assign fault to anyone in the process. But I can understand how those that really like a popular player and don't want to see him go would need to do that. GO BILLS!!! Edited July 14, 2011 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 truly unless you think we have 4 other starters, this would be a big loss. whether or not he is a gamechanger, he undoubtedly is an nfl caliber starter, and i would be hardpressed to find more then a very very small number of teams he wouldnt have a starting spot on. not all 4 linebackers are going to be hall of famers, atleast 2-3 will always have to be dependable players and he is at the high end of that spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) So keeping the same players in place during a losing cycle can create a winning cycle ? I got it. No, but letting the good players walk over money and replacing them with undrafted or lower round drafted rookies or washed up veterans that nobody else wants certainly won't result in any improvement. The idea should be to keep the good players and get rid of the crap, but the Bills do just the opposite normally. Watch what kind of player Poz becomes if he goes to the Steelers, Giants, or Pats. The problem Bills fans have is they blame the wrong players. Guys like Poz & Evans are hardly the reason the Bills are losing. But they catch a lot of blame. But let's keep making holes! That's the ticket to greatness! You are 1,000,000,000,000% correct. Alot of people on this board (not all), don't have a fricken clue when it comes to which players are the problem. Alot of people blame Evans, Poz, Kelsay, etc. then say in the same sentence that Fitz is one of the best QB's in the league. The problem with this franchise starts at the very top, and goes down through years of terrible front offices, coaching, drafts, etc. But them the few players that have produced from Buffalo drafts over the past decade get criticized because they aren't Dick Butkus or Jerry Rice, gut just good players. Steve Johnson has one good year, in large part because Evans was drawing double teams, and Evans sucks but Johnson is All-World? Edited July 14, 2011 by billsfreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) No, but letting the good players walk over money and replacing them with undrafted or lower round drafted rookies or washed up veterans that nobody else wants certainly won't result in any improvement. The idea should be to keep the good players and get rid of the crap, but the Bills do just the opposite normally. You are 1,000,000,000,000% correct. Alot of people on this board (not all), don't have a fricken clue when it comes to which players are the problem. Alot of people blame Evans, Poz, Kelsay, etc. then say in the same sentence that Fitz is one of the best QB's in the league. The problem with this franchise starts at the very top, and goes down through years of terrible front offices, coaching, drafts, etc. But them the few players that have produced from Buffalo drafts over the past decade get criticized because they aren't Dick Butkus or Jerry Rice, gut just good players. Steve Johnson has one good year, in large part because Evans was drawing double teams, and Evans sucks but Johnson is All-World? Evans has became more & more invisible every year, it's a mix of poor scheming / age / who is throwing the ball to him. I like Lee but not enough to ever sign him to a long-term deal again, I think if we could trade him for a good O-line guy, that it should be done ASAP. Edited July 14, 2011 by Scrappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 okay...read all the posts. Nobody has any idea who would take Poz's place. If there were somebody on board who was better than him..I imagine they would be playing. If we signed a free agent who could take his place, I haven't heard of him yet. If there was a dynamic inside linebacker drafted, I'm not aware of him. In a 3-4 or 4-3 is it important to have good linebackers? I would think so. If he went to free agency would he be considered one ot the top linebacker free agents? I think so. SOOOOOO...sign him and move on..nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 okay...read all the posts. Nobody has any idea who would take Poz's place. If there were somebody on board who was better than him..I imagine they would be playing. If we signed a free agent who could take his place, I haven't heard of him yet. If there was a dynamic inside linebacker drafted, I'm not aware of him. In a 3-4 or 4-3 is it important to have good linebackers? I would think so. If he went to free agency would he be considered one ot the top linebacker free agents? I think so. SOOOOOO...sign him and move on..nothing to see here. Knowing Poz's injury history, will know his replacement within the first month of the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 okay...read all the posts. Nobody has any idea who would take Poz's place. If there were somebody on board who was better than him..I imagine they would be playing. If we signed a free agent who could take his place, I haven't heard of him yet. If there was a dynamic inside linebacker drafted, I'm not aware of him. In a 3-4 or 4-3 is it important to have good linebackers? I would think so. If he went to free agency would he be considered one ot the top linebacker free agents? I think so. SOOOOOO...sign him and move on..nothing to see here. I'm not sure it's that simple, regardless of Poz's stated desire to stay in Buffalo. What if Cleveland (we know DJ likes Poz) or the Giants (as rumored) drive up the price for Poz? If you feel we should re-sign him at any cost, OK, I can respect that. If not, what is the walk away number for the Bills? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Why does everyone say this about Poz I do believe that just 2 years ago we were playing in a 4-3 with Stroud and Williams manning the DT spots and even thou Stroud is and was over the hill he was not that bad and Williams has been pretty good since day 1 so who else would you like to place in front of Poz to make him better? Uuummmmmmmmm.....Dareus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Poz isn't flashy...but deserves to be retained by this team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Just his name alone warrants a roster spot But he is not the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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