Mark Long Beach Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Everyone agrees that the signing Merriman involves some risk that we pay him and get nothing out of him (like last year). So all we're arguing over is HOW much of a risk it is. Bucky Brooks seems to think that it's a desperate move. I disagree. We can only fix so many things at once, and all player signings are risks. Merriman has shown that he is a rare player capable of changing the game. We have few such playmakers on our team. Very rare are these players and so I feel that the risk of a couple million is a very small risk. The biggest risk to me is that he takes a roster spot but I feel he isn't holding back development of our young players (too young, too raw, too unproven still). Yes we could add that 2.5 mil onto another contract to try for a slightly better player. However, I feel that that level of player is STILL not that good. Zack Miller is a good TE. He is not a game-changer. He will go for more money than we would pay for even with the extra 2.5 mil we would have 'saved' by not signing Merriman. Give me a gamechanger over another decent player any day. There really aren't many high impact players out there. They are expensive and high risk as well-Haynesworth anyone? Personally, I don't think it likely that he'll be a probowler again. But even Takeo Spikes has come back from some devastating injuries and is a pretty good player (although it took a few years).
papazoid Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Everyone agrees that the signing Merriman involves some risk that we pay him and get nothing out of him (like last year). So all we're arguing over is HOW much of a risk it is. Bucky Brooks seems to think that it's a desperate move. I disagree. We can only fix so many things at once, and all player signings are risks. Merriman has shown that he is a rare player capable of changing the game. We have few such playmakers on our team. Very rare are these players and so I feel that the risk of a couple million is a very small risk. The biggest risk to me is that he takes a roster spot but I feel he isn't holding back development of our young players (too young, too raw, too unproven still). Yes we could add that 2.5 mil onto another contract to try for a slightly better player. However, I feel that that level of player is STILL not that good. Zack Miller is a good TE. He is not a game-changer. He will go for more money than we would pay for even with the extra 2.5 mil we would have 'saved' by not signing Merriman. Give me a gamechanger over another decent player any day. There really aren't many high impact players out there. They are expensive and high risk as well-Haynesworth anyone? Personally, I don't think it likely that he'll be a probowler again. But even Takeo Spikes has come back from some devastating injuries and is a pretty good player (although it took a few years). i think the Takeo Spikes comparison is perfect....i'm not expecting much from merriman this coming season due to injury, i do think he will be a productive starter next season.
trolls_r_us Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Merriman playing like the Merriman people recognize from his heyday well would be a HUGE surprise. THAT SAID, the contract is pretty minimal if he doesn't pan out. No big deal, they just cut him. Might as well take the gamble. As you can see, it has some fans all excited that MERRIMAN plays here.
The Senator Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 As I've said ad nauseum on this site, don't confuse "bust" with "injured." Brooks, by all accounts, looked sensational for the Bills before tearing up his knee early on. Kelly thought he was going to be the answer after lighting it up in preseason, showing good hands and blazing speed. Unfortunately for Brooks, he tore up his knee pretty badly and was never the same. Rather than being a bust, I suggest considering him as a guy who lost his meal ticket (speed) and had the grit to change to a defensive player after being out of the league for a year. I'll repeat again: suffering from a major injury does not make one a bust. A bust is someone who never lives up to their potential based on their physical attributes. After his injury, Brooks lost his primary physical attribute. You're making a category error, although you won't be the last to do so. I expect to make this same point about another player next year and the year after that. Oh, and by the way, that summary of his short career in Buffalo neglects to mention the key salient fact: tears of multiple ligaments in one knee. Allow me to reiterate, McDave... Bucky Brooks was the Bills' second-round pick out of North Carolina in the 1994 NFL Draft, chosen No. 48 overall. (Jeff Burris was the team's first-round pick that year.) A speedy receiver with kick return ability, Brooks clearly did not pan out as a selection. He never caught an NFL pass, spent just one year in Buffalo, and then bounced around between Jacksonville, Green Bay, Kansas City and Oakland as a return specialist and defensive back until 1998, when his NFL career came to a close.
Homey D. Clown Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 I guess you could take exception with the tone or the writing style but I still think his assessment is right on the money. I think he relied on a little sensationalism to try to drive home a rather obvious point that people seem to be ignoring. I will honestly be shocked and happy if Merriman makes any significant contribution on the field. My best and wildest hope is that he is as good as a Chris Kelsay. A no name plugger that just occupies space but does not shine in any way. By the way. The Broncos are my 3rd favorite team now. Light in the pants Von Miller might have been ok too but Darues is the huge athletic presence that our undersized and slow defense needs. Buddy wasn't here to make the call but the thing with Ralph that kills me is that he took a few million dollar flier on a has been like Merriman but he won't pay an extra million to renegotiate and resign a proven probowler. Just doesn't make sense. yeah me too on Von Miller, I was calling him Aaron Maybin part2. I guess what got me on the article was how basic and pointless it was to write on a topic so irrelevant and "matter of Fact" that it just felt like high school paper journalism. With Shawn Merriman, I am also in the camp of low expectations with the hope of being pleasantly surprised, as are a vast majority of Bills fans, which made his article look even more amateur.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 +1 As much as people are trying to wreck Brooks he didn't even mention the fact that he is off the juice. Throw that in and it is pretty obvious to me the guy is and has been done. He's already on the team so all I can do is hope against all reason and logic that he can become useful. So who's to say Merriman hasn't switched to HGH? NFL doesn't test for that. How much would that change things?
RyanC883 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Well the article is total crap, and Bucky Brooks is certainly total crap, but the guy does know a thing or two about busts... Bucky Brooks Drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the second round of the 1994 NFL Draft, Bucky Brooks played for five different teams (Buffalo, Jacksonville, Green Bay, Kansas City and Oakland) in five NFL seasons. After his playing career was over in 1999, Brooks joined the Seattle Seahawks' pro personnel department as a regional college scout. He served in the same capacity for the Carolina Panthers from 2003-07, before joining CNNSI.com as a football analyst. He joined NFL.com in 2009. So after being drafted #48 overall in 1994, dude played for 5 teams in 5 years (primarily as a kick returner), then a couple of years each with both Seattle then Carolina as a regional college scout, then couldn't get another scouting gig for 2 years - and apparently didn't quite pan out at Sports Illustrated either - so ended up joining NFL.com as a blogger... Bucky Brooks was the Bills' second-round pick out of North Carolina in the 1994 NFL Draft, chosen No. 48 overall. (Jeff Burris was the team's first-round pick that year.) A speedy receiver with kick return ability, Brooks clearly did not pan out as a selection. He never caught an NFL pass, spent just one year in Buffalo, and then bounced around between Jacksonville, Green Bay, Kansas City and Oakland as a return specialist and defensive back until 1998, when his NFL career came to a close. (Link - Bills Draft Busts, No. 9: WR Bucky Brooks) I think what Nix did with the Merriman situation was appropriate - if he does return to pre-injury form, we have a 27-year-old 3-time Pro-Bowl OLB and dominant pass-rusher. If not, I see little downside to the deal Nix structured - we've certainly spent more than $2.5M on players that didn't pan out. Bucky must have been under a deadline to fill some column space when he filed that one... 19 and 0 baby!!! . 100% agree. We are not paying him much money--even if he is a backup he still knows how to play the game and can teach the younger guys. If he performs, he gets his deserved pay-day and the Bills have a dominant LB. There really is no debate that Nix did the right thing here. The Kelsay signing on the other hand.....
justnzane Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Don't go injecting factual information and rational thought into the discussion when someone is trying to discredit him as an NFL analyst based on his performance on the field as a player. You must be one of them there college boys usin' all them smarts and stuff. I for one, was trying to discredit him as a person, as he has been unsuccessful at each of the jobs he has been at over the past 15+ years, to the point where he hasn't maintained long-term employment. Furthermore, I discredited him because it was baseless to say that a team is desperate because they took a flyer on a guy with injury history. That is like saying "my kid has a B average. I would love to see some A's, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to bring in a tutor." Your posts have been have nothing short what I would expect of a shill of Bucky Brooks, or Tila Tequila. Since Bucky is a mediocre writer at best, I would have to hazard to guess that you are Tila Tequila. Your handle is of a crappy rapper and frankly you produce crappy music as well.
CodeMonkey Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 I've been saying this since day one. I was honestly in doubt that he would ever play a regular season down for us. He may actually get on the field before getting cut but it is likely he will play and be ineffective. I can't believe that not many people think about it but what has Merriman done since his injuries and getting off the juice???? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE LAST 3 YEARS!!! He has been done for a long time. He and Buddy just haven't realized it yet. He probably does realize it. But look at it this way, if someone offered to give you a couple million bucks for nothing, would you turn them down?
Jauronimo Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 link I'm not sure that $2.5M is a desperate act, much less than they've thrown at some less than stellar o-linemen. $2.5M puts Merriman on par with Reggie Torbor and Hangartner according to SportsCity. Are people really that upset about paying Merriman as much as a journeyman LB to see if he regains his former prowess?
1B4IDie Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 $2.5M puts Merriman on par with Reggie Torbor and Hangartner according to SportsCity. Are people really that upset about paying Merriman as much as a journeyman LB to see if he regains his former prowess? Yes, a thousand times yes.
Ramius Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) This thread is hilarious. Gotta love the frothing lunacy of the few posters who are sooooo mad at a minimal risk/maximum gain re-signing. Bucky Brooks is off his rocker. Signing someone at 2.5 mil is not desperation. Its a shrewd move that may pay off big time, and if it doesn't pan out, there was minimal loss. Edited July 12, 2011 by Ramius
tennesseeboy Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 It will pay off or it won't...2.5 million isn't a bet the farm investment. Let's see if he is any good, and if he isn't let's move on.
mousetrap08 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Bucky Brooks is lousy reporter offering very little new insight into the draft and current players. Merriman may be a flop but I think Nix is taking a justifiable risk on a player that just a few years ago (and pre-steroid testing) was a playmaker. Now, re-signing Kelsay to that absurd extension is the type of move that should get a GM fired. Just sayin' I agree. What I would like to know is what medical school this moron attended or any other nfl scout for that matter.
Captain Hindsight Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 How many times do we see a thread on here asking to sign a former pro bowler to a incentaive laden deal and see what happenes. 2.5 mil is nothing for a 26 year old former probowler. if he flops he flops. I call it a little risk big reward move. Hardly despiration IMO
dave mcbride Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Allow me to reiterate, McDave... Bucky Brooks was the Bills' second-round pick out of North Carolina in the 1994 NFL Draft, chosen No. 48 overall. (Jeff Burris was the team's first-round pick that year.) A speedy receiver with kick return ability, Brooks clearly did not pan out as a selection. He never caught an NFL pass, spent just one year in Buffalo, and then bounced around between Jacksonville, Green Bay, Kansas City and Oakland as a return specialist and defensive back until 1998, when his NFL career came to a close. Senator, you're missing my point. He tore his knee up badly at the outset of his career and went from a guy with slightly-sub 4.4 speed to a 4.6 guy (I'm being charitable here) who could play a little safety. I'm not really on your case, btw. It's a recurring problem. For instance, I have no doubt that Kijana Carter would have been a good player if he hadn't been injured. Also, right before the injury that really laid him low, I watched Courtney Brown so thoroughly dominate the Bears early in his second season that he reminded me of Bruce Smith and Reggie White rolled into one. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200111040chi.htm . I watched the game, and he was a beast. The next game, he tore his knee up badly and was essentially done. The same goes for Andre Wadsworth, another guy who would have been great if not for injuries. A bust is a guy like Maybin, Reggie Williams, or Vernon Gholston--guys who stay healthy but never produce.
PDaDdy Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 So who's to say Merriman hasn't switched to HGH? NFL doesn't test for that. How much would that change things? Good question. Then he would just be a cheater with bad knees.
billsfan89 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Desperation maybe BUT I look at it as trying to catch lighting in a bottle. Its a low risk high reward signing that the Bills needed to try. If he gets hurt two games into the season oh well its 2.5 million and they aren't hanging their fortunes on him. But if he has a 8 sack season and plays 12+ games it give the franchise a lot of help for taking a flyer on a guy.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 How many times do we see a thread on here asking to sign a former pro bowler to a incentaive laden deal and see what happenes. 2.5 mil is nothing for a 26 year old former probowler. if he flops he flops. I call it a little risk big reward move. Hardly despiration IMO If the team can evaluate Merriman's current abilities before the 2011 first game roster is finalized, and decides to cut him, then he will have cost the team only $2.5 million. Are you confident that the team will be able to make the necessary evaluation that quickly? In my view, the team eventually made the right decisions about Trent Edwards and Cornell Green last year, but not until each had played some regular season games. We still don't know if we will have a shortened preseason schedule this year, so the team may have even less opportunity than usual to evaluate players in game situations before making final 2011 roster decisions. The Mark Gaughan article says only $8 million ($4 million in 2011 and $4 million in 2012) of the total $18.5 million 2 year contract compensation is attributable to performance-based incentives. The other $10.5 million (1) is totally independent of how he performs during games, and (2) doesn't even require him to be on the field for a single snap. If Merriman returns to Pro Bowl form, it's a good deal. But when will we know? If he turns out to be healthy enough to pass a 2011 physical, but the team can't properly evaluate his game-day performance until after the 2011 regular season starts and keeps him on the first game roster anyway, then it's an $8.25 million gamble. I don't mind a $2.5 million gamble on Merriman - - but at $8.25 million I've got a few concerns. I hope it works out - - we'll see.
Rockinon Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) There are some really over the top remarks in this thread. Why can't we just stuff Bucky Brooks and Merriman into a locked room together and let them resolve this? Edited July 12, 2011 by Rockinon
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