Mr. WEO Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Ralph is cheap...except when he isn't. People are just doing what they always do, freak out over nothing. If the Pats signed Merriman we'd be crying about why we didn't take a chance on a possible stud. But since we did, now we're stupid for taking a risk on a damaged player. We'll never do it right. PTR If the pats signed Merriman, the laughter would be deafening. All would comment at how they were wasting money on a brittle, washed-up cheater.
PDaDdy Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 If the pats signed Merriman, the laughter would be deafening. All would comment at how they were wasting money on a brittle, washed-up cheater. +1 WOW, I'm agreeing with Billsfreak and Mr WEO today.
K-9 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) You make some good points, but there's one aspect about the contract numbers that I think a few people are missing . . . It's my understanding that base player salaries aren't guaranteed in the NFL, so those contracts generally work like this: Total compensation = guaranteed money + base salary + incentives The article says if Merriman hits all of his incentives, his total compensation for the 2 year contract will be $18.5 million (an average of $9.25 million/yr), with only $2.5 million of it guaranteed. If you subtract the guaranteed $2.5 million from his highest possible total compensation of $18.5 million over 2 years, you can determine that, over the 2 year term of Merriman's contract: Base salary + maximum incentives = $16 million. At least from Bucky's article, you can't really tell how much of the $16 million would be base salary, and how much of the $16 million would be from hitting maximum incentives. I haven't looked to see if a more detailed breakdown of Merriman's contract is available elsewhere, but I'm hoping that his base salary is close to the veteran minimum. I hope he plays great, but I can't tell anything from the Bucky Brooks article about how much of the non-guaranteed $16 million is base salary, and how much would be from hitting incentives. Does anybody know what Merriman's base salary is for this year or next? Where is this $18.5m over two years coming from? The deal is $9.25m over two years if he hits his incentives. I tried linking directly to Mark Gaughan's article from the News but it won't let me at the moment so I'll link this recap from Buffalo Rumblings instead. It's a very good contract for the Bills AND Merriman if he can perform. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/1/11/1928224/shawne-merriman-contract-details-olb-gets-big-guarantees GO BILLS!!! If the pats signed Merriman, the laughter would be deafening. All would comment at how they were wasting money on a brittle, washed-up cheater. Bullsh*t. If the Pats signed Merriman to the exact same deal everyone would be saying what geniuses the Pats were taking a low risk flyer on a guy battling back from injuries and how the Pats have a history of resurrecting the careers of veterans. GO BILLS!!! Edited July 12, 2011 by K-9
The Senator Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Ah the old I I really suck at arithmetic and don't understand the meaning of "difference" vs "equal to" and don't bother to read and understand what people write that I am desperately trying to win and argument with defense. Do you even read what people write or just make something up and rail against it? I said $2.5 million could be the "difference" between signing an impact free agent and a guy that just takes up a roster spot. See? Difference means the difference between the salaries of the 2 players, impact and non impact, not equal to the salary of the "impact" player. Care to try again? Do I really have to? I mean, if you concede that my #'s are right - that either one would cost more than $2.5M - you're essentially conceding that Merriman's salary is LESS than the 'difference', i.e., that you're wrong! Sounds like you're backtracking a bit anyway. Why don't you get back to me after you figure out which year we're in? . Edited July 12, 2011 by The Senator
billsfreak Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) The planets must surely be aligned Billsfreak. We actually seem to agree 100% on something. It might also have been a PR move as much of a long long long shot signing to make it look like we can still get a "big name", if not big performance, player on occasion. I am honored! Seriously though, the T.O. signing was all for PR purposes to sell tickets, but for as big of an ass as T.O. is, you knew he had done something in the past 5 seasons and you could pretty much count on him to be on the field on sundays. You can't say that about Merriman. I am a Bills fan, so I hope he has the best year of his career in 2011, but I have a better chance of being an astronaut before the year is over. Edited July 12, 2011 by billsfreak
Mr. WEO Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 Where is this $18.5m over two years coming from? I tried linking directly to Mark Gaughan's article from the new but it won't let me at the moment so I'll link this recap from Buffalo Rumblings instead. It's a very good contract for the Bills AND Merriman if he can perform. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/1/11/1928224/shawne-merriman-contract-details-olb-gets-big-guarantees GO BILLS!!! Bullsh*t. If the Pats signed Merriman to the exact same deal everyone would be saying what geniuses the Pats were taking a low risk flyer on a guy battling back from injuries and how the Pats have a history of resurrecting the careers of veterans. GO BILLS!!! No way. Like Seau?
John from Riverside Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 I want to see what happens with him this year......
billsfreak Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 If the pats signed Merriman, the laughter would be deafening. All would comment at how they were wasting money on a brittle, washed-up cheater. It would never happen though, Belicheat gets rid of players like Merriman, he doesn't bring them in. That is the difference between winning and losing.
PDaDdy Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Do I really have to? I mean, if you concede that my #'s are right - that either one would cost more than $2.5M - you're essentially conceding that Merriman's salary is LESS than the 'difference', i.e., that you're wrong! Sounds like you're backtracking a bit anyway. Why don't you get back to me after you figure out which year we're in? . LOL. Really? Really? You are the one that is back tracking buddy. That money. Just the BASE money that Merriman is getting to not play could be the difference between impact and no impact for a free agent. You really need a course in reading comprehension don't you? I concede nothing on your numbers nor are they relevant to my point. All that is relevant is the concept which I know you get that $1 million dollars, $1.5 million dollars, $2.5 million dollars could make the difference between whether a Tyson Clabo comes here or goes elsewhere. It could be the difference between signing say a Zack Miller vs a Kevin Boss. I know you are smart enough to get the idea of those scenarios. That is my point. Please don't try to mire this discussion in BS or change the focus of MY statements to avoid admitting that I am right. Neither of us are are that dumb. Let's make this about learning and realizing something not trying to win an argument which enlightens no one. Edited July 12, 2011 by PDaDdy
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 I'm in the camp of Wait and See. The contract is friendly to the franchise. He'll either earn all that money or he won't. The thing about the article is that it's based off a Matt Williamson chat on ESPN. Considering there's been no OTAs or Training Camp, I'm not sure how or where Williamson or ESPN is watching Merriman. Matt Williamson is watching him through his telescope.
The Senator Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Where is this $18.5m over two years coming from? The deal is $9.25m over two years if he hits his incentives. I tried linking directly to Mark Gaughan's article from the News but it won't let me at the moment so I'll link this recap from Buffalo Rumblings instead. It's a very good contract for the Bills AND Merriman if he can perform. Blasphemy! Contradicting BOTH the 'Ralph is cheap' AND 'Nix is stupid' arguments in the same post??? You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and you will atone! I am honored! Seriously though, the T.O. signing was all for PR purposes to sell tickets, but for as big of an ass as T.O. is, you knew he had done something in the past 5 seasons and you could pretty much count on him to be on the field on sundays. You can't say that about Merriman. I am a Bills fan, so I hope he has the best year of his career in 2011, but I have a better chance of being an astronaut before the year is over. The next manned Soyuz flight is in September. Godspeed. GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! I concede nothing on your numbers nor are they relevant to my point. This does not surprise me. Numbers are tough to grasp. (BTW, how'd the Bills do in 2011? ) Edited July 12, 2011 by The Senator
K-9 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 No way. Like Seau? And like Antwan Smith or Corey Dillon or Roman Phifer or Rodney Harrsion or Ted Washington or Keith Traylor or Adalius Thomas or Deltha O'Neal or Shawn Springs or Randy Moss or ... GO BILLS!!!
papazoid Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 I want to see what happens with him this year...... will probably "re-injure" something at his first practice and not play a single down for the entire season.
Mr. WEO Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 And like Antwan Smith or Corey Dillon or Roman Phifer or Rodney Harrsion or Ted Washington or Keith Traylor or Adalius Thomas or Deltha O'Neal or Shawn Springs or Randy Moss or ... GO BILLS!!! No you got it. People were mocking the Moss signing! And of course Thomas.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Where is this $18.5m over two years coming from? The deal is $9.25m over two years if he hits his incentives. Here's what the Bucky Brooks article says: "In fact, the team is so committed to the idea of Merriman returning as a full force it signed him to a two-year, incentive-based deal that could average $9.25 million annually, with $2.5 million guaranteed in the first year of the deal." I tried linking directly to Mark Gaughan's article from the News but it won't let me at the moment so I'll link this recap from Buffalo Rumblings instead. It's a very good contract for the Bills AND Merriman if he can perform. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/1/11/1928224/shawne-merriman-contract-details-olb-gets-big-guarantees GO BILLS!!! Bullsh*t. If the Pats signed Merriman to the exact same deal everyone would be saying what geniuses the Pats were taking a low risk flyer on a guy battling back from injuries and how the Pats have a history of resurrecting the careers of veterans. GO BILLS!!! Thanks for the link. I think this is the Mark Gaughan article you referenced: http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2011/01/merriman-gets-good-guarantee.html It's a little hard to follow. Among other things, it says that the Merriman contract requires the Bills to pay him some "guaranteed" money that can be "eradicated" in some circumstances. Huh? If there are any circumstances that can eradicate Merriman getting the money, I wouldn't call that truly "guaranteed." In any event, the final sentence of the Gaughan article reads: "As long as he recovers from his Achilles tendon injury and is on the roster for the start of the 2011 season, he's going to get $8.25 million from the Bills." As I mentioned above, I hope he plays great, but that last sentence sure sounds like the Bills are on the hook to pay him $8.25 million even if all he does is (1) make the 2011 roster for the first game, and (2) get the same number of sacks as Maybin did last year. Edited July 12, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead
K-9 Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 No you got it. People were mocking the Moss signing! And of course Thomas. You mean fans of one team would mock the signings of another while praising their own? Who knew? I'm wondering if Bucky Brooks has the same trepidation if NE* gives that deal to Merriman instead of Buffalo. I doubt it. GO BILLS!!!
PDaDdy Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 No you got it. People were mocking the Moss signing! And of course Thomas. I didn't mock those signings. People who knew something knew those were valuable additions to their team at the time.
Billsguy Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 link I'm not sure that $2.5M is a desperate act, much less than they've thrown at some less than stellar o-linemen. He's not saying anything new. Everybody in the league agrees with him except for the people at One Bills Drive and many at Two Bills Drive. It's not my money so the risk is very low!
dave mcbride Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Well the article is total crap, and Bucky Brooks is certainly total crap, but the guy does know a thing or two about busts... Bucky Brooks Drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the second round of the 1994 NFL Draft, Bucky Brooks played for five different teams (Buffalo, Jacksonville, Green Bay, Kansas City and Oakland) in five NFL seasons. After his playing career was over in 1999, Brooks joined the Seattle Seahawks' pro personnel department as a regional college scout. He served in the same capacity for the Carolina Panthers from 2003-07, before joining CNNSI.com as a football analyst. He joined NFL.com in 2009. So after being drafted #48 overall in 1994, dude played for 5 teams in 5 years (primarily as a kick returner), then a couple of years each with both Seattle then Carolina as a regional college scout, then couldn't get another scouting gig for 2 years - and apparently didn't quite pan out at Sports Illustrated either - so ended up joining NFL.com as a blogger... Bucky Brooks was the Bills' second-round pick out of North Carolina in the 1994 NFL Draft, chosen No. 48 overall. (Jeff Burris was the team's first-round pick that year.) A speedy receiver with kick return ability, Brooks clearly did not pan out as a selection. He never caught an NFL pass, spent just one year in Buffalo, and then bounced around between Jacksonville, Green Bay, Kansas City and Oakland as a return specialist and defensive back until 1998, when his NFL career came to a close. (Link - Bills Draft Busts, No. 9: WR Bucky Brooks) I think what Nix did with the Merriman situation was appropriate - if he does return to pre-injury form, we have a 27-year-old 3-time Pro-Bowl OLB and dominant pass-rusher. If not, I see little downside to the deal Nix structured - we've certainly spent more than $2.5M on players that didn't pan out. Bucky must have been under a deadline to fill some column space when he filed that one... 19 and 0 baby!!! . As I've said ad nauseum on this site, don't confuse "bust" with "injured." Brooks, by all accounts, looked sensational for the Bills before tearing up his knee early on. Kelly thought he was going to be the answer after lighting it up in preseason, showing good hands and blazing speed. Unfortunately for Brooks, he tore up his knee pretty badly and was never the same. Rather than being a bust, I suggest considering him as a guy who lost his meal ticket (speed) and had the grit to change to a defensive player after being out of the league for a year. I'll repeat again: suffering from a major injury does not make one a bust. A bust is someone who never lives up to their potential based on their physical attributes. After his injury, Brooks lost his primary physical attribute. You're making a category error, although you won't be the last to do so. I expect to make this same point about another player next year and the year after that. Oh, and by the way, that summary of his short career in Buffalo neglects to mention the key salient fact: tears of multiple ligaments in one knee. Edited July 12, 2011 by dave mcbride
PDaDdy Posted July 12, 2011 Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) As I've said ad nauseum on this site, don't confuse "bust" with "injured." Brooks, by all accounts, looked sensational for the Bills before tearing up his knee early on. Kelly thought he was going to be the answer after lighting it up in preseason, showing good hands and blazing speed. Unfortunately for Brooks, he tore up his knee pretty badly and was never the same. Rather than being a bust, I suggest considering him as a guy who lost his meal ticket (speed) and had the grit to change to a defensive player after being out of the league for a year. I'll repeat again: suffering from a major injury does not make one a bust. A bust is someone who never lives up to their potential based on their physical attributes. After his injury, Brooks lost his primary physical attribute. You're making a category error, although you won't be the last to do so. I expect to make this same point about another player next year and the year after that. Oh, and by the way, that summary of his short career in Buffalo neglects to mention the key salient fact: tears of multiple ligaments in one knee. Don't go injecting factual information and rational thought into the discussion when someone is trying to discredit him as an NFL analyst based on his performance on the field as a player. You must be one of them there college boys usin' all them smarts and stuff. Edited July 12, 2011 by PDaDdy
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