BuffaloBill Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Would you continue firing headshots after the threat was removed, though? I guess at is hard to discern is how much adrenaline combined with fear played into the situation. If the guy had no training, which he likely did not, he may nat have been thinking the guy was subdued. I suppose it is easy for us to say from far afield that we would have acted differently. It's hard to say. I agree that life seems very extreme under the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Why not? Baby killers walk free, people defending themselves get life. God Belss America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Sorry, but if you stick a gun in someone's face with no provocation and for no reason other than to victimize the person, you are nothing but a vile animal who should be put down as quickly as possible. This is what happened in Long Island recently when the pharmacist being robbed didn't have the chance to defend himself. The fewer violent felons alive in the world, the better. Well, no. The main reason is they want money. The great majority of robbers aren't sadists, they're junkies. Again, when you make the decision to commit such a crime you can't ever complain about the results. But I'd never wish the person dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Those who are sympathetic with the plight of the robbers I think are generally dismissive to the after effects of such crimes as robberies against the victim. My wife is a pharmacist and regardless of whether the victim wanted money or drugs - if there is a gun pulled on her, it is game over for her career. I doubt she would ever go back. Years of schooling, the post-traumatic syndrome... Pulling a gun on someone, even w/o the intent to use it - is NOT victimless. It isn't just a crime of property. You are messing with people's minds, their careers, their lives. Do I think this guy should have done what he did? No, but I'm not losing any sleep over what he did either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 We already talked about this one. The pharmacist coldly and calmly walks behind the counter, grabs a new gun and then unloads several shots into the unconscious robber. In addition he lied to the police about what happened. He had every right to defend himself, yet he had no right to play judge, jury, and executioner. I think you pretty much nailed it there. This was an execution. He may have had a defense if he instead beat the crap out of the guy while he was on the ground, an emotional response. This one just looks so calm and calculated to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 This case has stirred up a lot of people here in OK. Unfortunately for the pharmacist had he been a better shot he wouldn't be in jail. One of the kids that was inside was armed, the other was not. He had been robbed in the past, so was apparently armed this time around. He pulled his gun, and shot the unarmed kid, while the armed kid turned and ran. The pharmacist chased the armed kid out of the store, but didn't catch him. When the pharmacist returned to the store, he walked by the kid he had shot who was lying on the floor, went back behind his counter, grabbed a second gun, and came back and shot the kid on the floor 5 more times. Obviously that kid died, but it wasn't ever determined whether he died from the first round of gunfire or the second. The man also "lied" to police when he was telling his story, stating that both kids were armed and some other things that were clearly not true on the videotape. I'm not surprised he was convicted, because you can't come back inside and grab a second weapon and kill someone that is lying defenseless not currently posing a threat to you. I think his attorneys did a piss poor job of convincing the jury of his mental state at the time of the robbery/shooting. Plus in interviews, the guy didn't seem like he was all there to begin with. I am quite surprised that he received life in prison. I figured he would get a bit more sympathy considering he was robbed with a gun in his face, which is an incredibly stressful situation that can make people react in very unpredictable ways. Had he just killed both kids with his first few shots, he wouldn't be in this mess and it would have been definite self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Not that it has any impact on anything (other than maybe being the reason he needed the 2nd gun), but when he chased the kid outside, did he fire some shots out there too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'd rather the clerk fire 5 too many shots than 1 too few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Those who are sympathetic with the plight of the robbers I think are generally dismissive to the after effects of such crimes as robberies against the victim. My wife is a pharmacist and regardless of whether the victim wanted money or drugs - if there is a gun pulled on her, it is game over for her career. I doubt she would ever go back. Years of schooling, the post-traumatic syndrome... Pulling a gun on someone, even w/o the intent to use it - is NOT victimless. It isn't just a crime of property. You are messing with people's minds, their careers, their lives. Do I think this guy should have done what he did? No, but I'm not losing any sleep over what he did either. Exactly. You can't just go back and review the facts and compare the way the victim acted at the time to how you or I might act in retrospect. To have your life threatened is a traumatic thing. You're not sitting there trying to assess whether this person is armed and the other is not, or if they both have play toy guns, etc, etc. All you care about is the fact that you are faced with a threat, and you're thinking either I remove the threat or my life is at risk. It's not fair to expect the victim to show restraint in the heat of the moment, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I keep hearing in the heat of the moment- how long does that entail? Should we let him drive home to get his gun? He was wrong and deserves to be in jail. Heaven forbid he pulled this cowboy street justice on the wrong person. There is a reason he got put away for so long. I'm surprised it was life, but he did deserve significant time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I keep hearing in the heat of the moment- how long does that entail? Should we let him drive home to get his gun? He was wrong and deserves to be in jail. Heaven forbid he pulled this cowboy street justice on the wrong person. There is a reason he got put away for so long. I'm surprised it was life, but he did deserve significant time He didn't drive home. It was at the scene and time where his life was directly threatened. How could his "cowboy street justice" be directed at the wrong person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) He didn't drive home. It was at the scene and time where his life was directly threatened. How could his "cowboy street justice" be directed at the wrong person? My point was when do we call it a day on heat of the moment... He took quite some time to calmly go get his gun. He was so scared that he turned his back to the dangerous (half dead) guy on the floor.... Let's be honest, this man clearly had it in his head he was killing the next guy to do this, and got caught by his own camera. As for his cowboy street justice- what about when he hits an innocent person? Do we let him off cause he was super angry? What he did was highly illegal for a reason. Edited July 12, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Not that it has any impact on anything (other than maybe being the reason he needed the 2nd gun), but when he chased the kid outside, did he fire some shots out there too? OMFG can this guy do anything? Would you be happy if he turned the gun on himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 OMFG can this guy do anything? Would you be happy if he turned the gun on himself? LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My point was when do we call it a day on heat of the moment... He took quite some time to calmly go get his gun. He was so scared that he turned his back to the dangerous (half dead) guy on the floor.... Let's be honest, this man clearly had it in his head he was killing the next guy to do this, and got caught by his own camera. As for his cowboy street justice- what about when he hits an innocent person? Do we let him off cause he was super angry? What he did was highly illegal for a reason. Heat of the moment is a cliche term that really doesn't do justice to the mental stress that a person goes through when your life is literally on the line. Just pray that you never find out how long the heat of the moment lasts for you. I'm not saying the guy is justified, but it's hard for me to agree with a life sentence in a circumstance like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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