How can Obamanomics play out?

[Gary M]

To do what? Celebrate Obama's reelection? The guy isn't even down in the polls much and the GOP doesn't even have a candidate to beat up on yet.

 

 

The budget will best be taken care of by growing the economy and hopefully that will start happening in the second half of this year.

 

Um, last week he was tied with a generic Republican candidate.

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/generic_presidential_ballot/election_2012_generic_presidential_ballot

 

I think the American people are catching on.

[/dev/null]

Um, last week he was tied with a generic Republican candidate.

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/generic_presidential_ballot/election_2012_generic_presidential_ballot

 

I think the American people are catching on.

 

Thing is Obama won't run against a generic Republican. He will run against a specific Republican, my guess either Romney or Perry.

 

The Republican primaries are still several months away. Plenty of time for the GOP candidates to expend their resources eating their own. Meanwhile Obama will have a nice fat war chest and the Republican primaries will have done most of the heavy lifting for the DNC.

[pBills]

The funny thing is that none of this matters if both sides of aisle can't figure out how to compromise and get deals done.

[DC Tom]

but this is what it will take to get entitlements under control...that or have the private insurers do it, which for some reason you folks are eager to accept. we need to stop the mri's for the people that "just want to know" and the stress test on 30 year olds with gas pains and all the futile care. the gov't really is the only entity that can effectively do this. same for social security reform. the painful stuff has to happen. if you're asking if the political will really exists on either side then i agree, that's a serious question.

 

Are you kidding? You think patients are the cause of needless medical tests?

[birdog1960]

Are you kidding? You think patients are the cause of needless medical tests?

absolutely. unrealistic expectations are rampant. people truly believe they should live forever and anything can be fixed...see it and hear it every day.

 

sure, the blame can and should be spread: drug companies advertising that only the newest, most expensive drug version will work, doctors (mostly proceduralists, doing unnecessary procedures and tests and diagnosticians doing the same for fear of lawsuits), crooked durable equipment sellers.... but the patient is the common denominator. and the american mindset is not currently conducive to cost effective medicine. this only changes when the public is responsible for more of the bill or spending limits and clinical pathways are put in place

[GG]

but this is what it will take to get entitlements under control...that or have the private insurers do it, which for some reason you folks are eager to accept. we need to stop the mri's for the people that "just want to know" and the stress test on 30 year olds with gas pains and all the futile care. the gov't really is the only entity that can effectively do this. same for social security reform. the painful stuff has to happen. if you're asking if the political will really exists on either side then i agree, that's a serious question.

 

This is insane, because it assumes that the government bureaucracy will be more effective in controlling the costs. Yet in a world where doctors routinely schedule high risk surgeries on 90-yr olds under Medicare's watch, then you're delusional to think that government who relies on voters will bring costs down or will be more effective than private insurers.

 

absolutely. unrealistic expectations are rampant. people truly believe they should live forever and anything can be fixed...see it and hear it every day.

 

sure, the blame can and should be spread: drug companies advertising that only the newest, most expensive drug version will work, doctors (mostly proceduralists, doing unnecessary procedures and tests and diagnosticians doing the same for fear of lawsuits), crooked durable equipment sellers.... but the patient is the common denominator. and the american mindset is not currently conducive to cost effective medicine. this only changes when the public is responsible for more of the bill or spending limits and clinical pathways are put in place

 

The patient is to blame, because medicine is one of the few areas where the insured patient has no clue about the cost of care. All they care about is the co-pay, leaving the negotiation between the payer (insurance) & provider. Obamacare will not fix that, if anything, government intervention will distort the market even more causing a far greater demand for the services than there are dollars to support that demand.

[Justice]

I don't pretend to know much about the economy, but I do know this, the troubles in our economy doesn't fall on Obama's shoulders alone. This country has been in a tailspin for quite some time now. We are a consuming nation, not a producing one and that will lead to our downfall. Let's face it, we are a spoiled, lazy, and unmotivated bunch that have a sense of self entitlement. All of these ingredients will lead to disaster.

 

No one has been able to explain how NAFTA helps us, either. We can't compete with the cheap labor that other countries can, so how does free trade help? Outsourcing our jobs won't help, either, at this point we just can't compete.

 

We need to be innovators, again. We need to make products the rest of the world would want/need. In order for this to happen, IMO, we need to put all our resources into education. Education is key and at this point, our children are struggling to even pass the FCAT. This has to change.

 

There is no quick fix to this dilemma. This will take time, much more time than one or two terms for our President, who essentially is nothing more than a puppet or figure head. The Pres has no real power. I find it laughable that every four years we get to hear more and more of the same empty promises and people just eat it up. What a joke!

 

What is it, like 2% of the nation owns 98% of it's wealth? How did we let this happen? That's insane and this stuff didn't happen overnight. So blame Obama or Bush Jr or Clinton or Bush Sr or Reagan or Carter all you'd like, but that isn't the main issue, if you ask me.

 

It's us, the people. We are to blame. We need to stop pointing the finger at others and take a long look in the mirror. It's always someone else's fault. No it isn't. It's all our fault. It's time to face reality. Give more. Work harder. Stop getting divorced and raise your children in a healthy environment so that they can focus on their education instead of their parents' problems. Put the drinks and drugs down. Stop being consumed by television and video games. Tutor your children that need additional help. These are all the things we control as a people, not the government. We don't need help from them. Let's get things straight at home and the rest will take care of itself.

[DC Tom]

absolutely. unrealistic expectations are rampant. people truly believe they should live forever and anything can be fixed...see it and hear it every day.

 

sure, the blame can and should be spread: drug companies advertising that only the newest, most expensive drug version will work, doctors (mostly proceduralists, doing unnecessary procedures and tests and diagnosticians doing the same for fear of lawsuits), crooked durable equipment sellers.... but the patient is the common denominator. and the american mindset is not currently conducive to cost effective medicine. this only changes when the public is responsible for more of the bill or spending limits and clinical pathways are put in place

 

So in your vast experience, patients demand unnecessary tests and procedures, and get them regardless of medical advice or insurance policy. And your solution to that is government. As elected by the patients who are causing the problem to begin with.

 

Are you high? Isn't it a little early in the morning to be high?

[birdog1960]

So in your vast experience, patients demand unnecessary tests and procedures, and get them regardless of medical advice or insurance policy. And your solution to that is government. As elected by the patients who are causing the problem to begin with.

 

Are you high? Isn't it a little early in the morning to be high?

um, i do have vast experience...have been doing between 5000-6500 pt visits a year for over 20 years. and i'm not high except for 2 cups of coffee. yes pt often come in and say "i need" this drug or test or procedure. "uncle joe would've died without them".

[Rob's House]

...

It's us, the people. We are to blame. We need to stop pointing the finger at others and take a long look in the mirror. It's always someone else's fault. No it isn't. It's all our fault. It's time to face reality. Give more. Work harder. Stop getting divorced and raise your children in a healthy environment so that they can focus on their education instead of their parents' problems. Put the drinks and drugs down. Stop being consumed by television and video games. Tutor your children that need additional help. These are all the things we control as a people, not the government. We don't need help from them. Let's get things straight at home and the rest will take care of itself.

That's the problem son. The non-retarded among us aren't looking for the government to fix anything. We're just looking for them to stop !@#$ing it up. I'm still curious how your theory addresses the debt we're drowning in, but if I read it correctly what I got is that if we eat right, work hard, yada yada yada, the government can print and spend as much money as they like and we don't need to worry about it. Brilliant **** here man. Keep it coming.

[DC Tom]

um, i do have vast experience...have been doing between 5000-6500 pt visits a year for over 20 years. and i'm not high except for 2 cups of coffee. yes pt often come in and say "i need" this drug or test or procedure. "uncle joe would've died without them".

 

And you prescribe, and their insurance pays, based on what they tell you they "need"?

 

If you do...the problem ain't them. If you don't...the problem still ain't them, since they're not a problem. If you don't like it...get new patients, dumbass.

[Justice]

Maybe they wouldn't have to spend so much if we had our stuff together as a nation. You see as long as we stay uninformed, uneducated, and distracted they can get away with anything. But if you have an issue with my suggestions then maybe you should include yourself in that group of idiots. How can it hurt?

 

You don't believe education or lack there of has anything to do with what our elected officials can or can not get away with? You don't believe our behavior has an effect on our society? These things go hand n hand.

 

For example, who caused the real estate market to crash? Was it the gov't, the banks or the people? I'd say it was the peoples fault. Nobody told them to take loans they can't afford or to purchase homes that had an over inflated value. They did that to themselves and that led to a huge gov't bailout. Correct? Cause and effect.

 

If we get our sh@t straight we won't need them to step in and "help".

 

 

 

 

That's the problem son. The non-retarded among us aren't looking for the government to fix anything. We're just looking for them to stop !@#$ing it up. I'm still curious how your theory addresses the debt we're drowning in, but if I read it correctly what I got is that if we eat right, work hard, yada yada yada, the government can print and spend as much money as they like and we don't need to worry about it. Brilliant **** here man. Keep it coming.

[birdog1960]

And you prescribe, and their insurance pays, based on what they tell you they "need"?

 

If you do...the problem ain't them. If you don't...the problem still ain't them, since they're not a problem. If you don't like it...get new patients, dumbass.

well dumbass, most of the country is this way yet i like it here...born and raised, that kind thing. highly educated areas are actually the worst. look at drug resistance in university towns.

 

just say no, huh? i do plenty and then they go to the urgent care for the antibiotic they don't need for a cold. the system feeds this - for- profit medicine. if we were not paid for piece work we wouldn't even see people with colds. the incentives are all wrong. it's not fixed by your simplistic answers.

[DC Tom]

well dumbass, most of the country is this way yet i like it here...born and raised, that kind thing. highly educated areas are actually the worst. look at drug resistance in university towns.

 

just say no, huh? i do plenty and then they go to the urgent care for the antibiotic they don't need for a cold. the system feeds this - for- profit medicine. if we were not paid for piece work we wouldn't even see people with colds. the incentives are all wrong. it's not fixed by your simplistic answers.

 

Look at vaccination rates in highly educated areas, for that matter. People are idiots. Welcome to my word.

 

But your simplistic answers aren't the answer, either. "The government needs to manage it?" What the hell do you think happens when the same stupid sheep that won't listen to your medical advice can elect people who will tell you what you have to do???? The funniest thing is that you're arguing for enabling the same sense of entitlement that you're complaining about, and you don't even realize it.

[Rob's House]

Maybe they wouldn't have to spend so much if we had our stuff together as a nation. You see as long as we stay uninformed, uneducated, and distracted they can get away with anything. But if you have an issue with my suggestions then maybe you should include yourself in that group of idiots. How can it hurt?

 

You don't believe education or lack there of has anything to do with what our elected officials can or can not get away with? You don't believe our behavior has an effect on our society? These things go hand n hand.

 

For example, who caused the real estate market to crash? Was it the gov't, the banks or the people? I'd say it was the peoples fault. Nobody told them to take loans they can't afford or to purchase homes that had an over inflated value. They did that to themselves and that led to a huge gov't bailout. Correct? Cause and effect.

 

If we get our sh@t straight we won't need them to step in and "help".

I agree whole heartedly that we as individuals should get our **** straight. The problem is, I can't make my neighbor get his **** straight, and I can't keep him and the rest of the neighborhood from trying to vote themselves a living rather than earn one. Nor could I have done anything to stop my neighbor from taking out a loan he couldn't pay back, the bank from giving him the loan, or the government from pressuring and/or encouraging them to engage in that transaction.

[birdog1960]

Look at vaccination rates in highly educated areas, for that matter. People are idiots. Welcome to my word.

 

But your simplistic answers aren't the answer, either. "The government needs to manage it?" What the hell do you think happens when the same stupid sheep that won't listen to your medical advice can elect people who will tell you what you have to do???? The funniest thing is that you're arguing for enabling the same sense of entitlement that you're complaining about, and you don't even realize it.

no, you don't realize what i'm arguing...for reasonable rationing based on thoughtful allocation of limited resources, for safe harbors to just say no, for refusal without fear of reprisal for denying unnecessary care. for empowering people with actual medical knowledge to be the decision makers. everywhere in the world that this has worked has a govt run system.

[Magox]

Are you kidding? You think patients are the cause of needless medical tests?

I don't know if I would use the word "blame" but I would definitely say they have a large stake in it. But Birdog's suggestion that Obamacare could possibly fix this is how shall I say?

 

A bit naive? optimistic? I could use other adjectives, but these will suffice.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Magox

[birdog1960]

I don't pretend to know much about the economy, but I do know this, the troubles in our economy doesn't fall on Obama's shoulders alone. This country has been in a tailspin for quite some time now. We are a consuming nation, not a producing one and that will lead to our downfall. Let's face it, we are a spoiled, lazy, and unmotivated bunch that have a sense of self entitlement. All of these ingredients will lead to disaster.

 

No one has been able to explain how NAFTA helps us, either. We can't compete with the cheap labor that other countries can, so how does free trade help? Outsourcing our jobs won't help, either, at this point we just can't compete.

 

We need to be innovators, again. We need to make products the rest of the world would want/need. In order for this to happen, IMO, we need to put all our resources into education. Education is key and at this point, our children are struggling to even pass the FCAT. This has to change.

 

There is no quick fix to this dilemma. This will take time, much more time than one or two terms for our President, who essentially is nothing more than a puppet or figure head. The Pres has no real power. I find it laughable that every four years we get to hear more and more of the same empty promises and people just eat it up. What a joke!

 

What is it, like 2% of the nation owns 98% of it's wealth? How did we let this happen? That's insane and this stuff didn't happen overnight. So blame Obama or Bush Jr or Clinton or Bush Sr or Reagan or Carter all you'd like, but that isn't the main issue, if you ask me.

 

It's us, the people. We are to blame. We need to stop pointing the finger at others and take a long look in the mirror. It's always someone else's fault. No it isn't. It's all our fault. It's time to face reality. Give more. Work harder. Stop getting divorced and raise your children in a healthy environment so that they can focus on their education instead of their parents' problems. Put the drinks and drugs down. Stop being consumed by television and video games. Tutor your children that need additional help. These are all the things we control as a people, not the government. We don't need help from them. Let's get things straight at home and the rest will take care of itself.

[Magox]

 

 

No one has been able to explain how NAFTA helps us, either. We can't compete with the cheap labor that other countries can, so how does free trade help? Outsourcing our jobs won't help, either, at this point we just can't compete.

 

 

 

How does it help? First off its a proven fact that Nafta has increased trade between us and Mexico and Canada. Studies have shown that our GDP growth has grown an average of about .5%, which may not sound like alot, but definitely is. Nafta also eliminated lots of farm tariffs over to Mexico. That was huge, they consume lots of our beef, soybeans and other farming products.

 

Nafta also eliminated lots of trade barriers in the services sector, such as healthcare and financial services. Our revenues increased by over 400% in a 10 year span after the agreement.

 

Here's a biggy, what do we import more than anything? Oil! That's right, since we dont have any tarrifs with Mexico our oil is cheaper now as a result of it. When I say cheaper, I say cheaper than if there would of been the tarrifs. Same with any farming products that we import as well.

 

Foreign direct investment between Mexico, Canada and ourselves has more than tripled since NAFTA began. NAFTa reduces investors' risk by guaranteeing they will have the same legal rights as local investors.

 

So you asked how, there you go.

 

 

We need to be innovators, again. We need to make products the rest of the world would want/need. In order for this to happen, IMO, we need to put all our resources into education. Education is key and at this point, our children are struggling to even pass the FCAT. This has to change.

 

There is no quick fix to this dilemma. This will take time, much more time than one or two terms for our President, who essentially is nothing more than a puppet or figure head. The Pres has no real power. I find it laughable that every four years we get to hear more and more of the same empty promises and people just eat it up. What a joke!

 

What is it, like 2% of the nation owns 98% of it's wealth? How did we let this happen? That's insane and this stuff didn't happen overnight. So blame Obama or Bush Jr or Clinton or Bush Sr or Reagan or Carter all you'd like, but that isn't the main issue, if you ask me.

 

It's us, the people. We are to blame. We need to stop pointing the finger at others and take a long look in the mirror. It's always someone else's fault. No it isn't. It's all our fault. It's time to face reality. Give more. Work harder. Stop getting divorced and raise your children in a healthy environment so that they can focus on their education instead of their parents' problems. Put the drinks and drugs down. Stop being consumed by television and video games. Tutor your children that need additional help. These are all the things we control as a people, not the government. We don't need help from them. Let's get things straight at home and the rest will take care of itself.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Magox

[DC Tom]

Here's a biggy, what do we import more than anything? Oil! That's right, since we dont have any tarrifs with Mexico our oil is cheaper now as a result of it. When I say cheaper, I say cheaper than if there would of been the tarrifs. Same with any farming products that we import as well.

 

Doesn't the same apply - and wouldn't it be a MUCH bigger deal - to our much greater imports from Canada?

 

Unless those never had tarrifs on them...