Sisyphean Bills Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I still think it should span over the falls so canadians and americans could enter without customs :-) And the Bills would get the end of the field at the bottom of the falls with each possession...
bobinaz Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 If the Bills were to build a new stadium, then they should follow the blue print of what was done in Glendale,Az. The stadium where the Cardinals play and the hockey rink for the Coyotes are all on the same grounds, within walking distance to a really nice mall. There are stores and restaurants there for the fans to go to before and after the games. There are hotels within a 1/4 mile. Easy access from the 101 loop that feeds off of I-10. The city manager had the right idea when they relocated the Cardinal's stadium. You want to bring the fans in and have them spend time and money in the area. This is the way to do it. Orchard Park is a nice little town, but I think somewhere closer to Niagra Falls would be nice. The way not to do it, follow the example in Tucson. The ward councilman got the AAA baseball stadium in his ward to please his constituents. Well they built it across the street from a sheriff's dept substation, juvenile detentions center/courts, and a hospital. The closet eating establishment was a Burger King and Subway about a mile down the road. Since then, the Diamondbacks, White Sox and Rockies have their sprind training elsewhere. The city is on it's 2nd AAA team. What a waste.
Homey D. Clown Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Let me ask you this: What does the city of Buffalo get out of the Bills now? The team plays in the county. Now Erie County would lose out if a new stadium was built in Niagara County. But once the lease is done they can't stop it. As far as developing Buffalo as a tourist destination, you are starting from zero. Actually you are starting from less than zero because you have to overcome the negative rep the name "Buffalo" carries. You could build Disneyland at the Buffalo waterfront but people will still think "eww, Buffalo." Also HSBC Arena has shown that building a sports venue does not automatically bring development. I mean you have 50+ events a year at HSBC and there is still nothing else there but a hole in the ground! Right now Niagara Falls, NY is a festering zit of a town. But the name "Niagara Falls" is recognized world wide. It's still thought of as a tourist destination, even though most of the tourists go to Canada. Putting a complex like I described in the Falls gives incentive to draw some of those tourists back to the USA side, and opens up potential new revenue for the Bills. And don't forget that NF is 30 minutes closer to metro Toronto. This will strengthen the claim on that market for the Bills. Another option that I'm sure would not be liked by most of us would be to build the stadium in NF, Canada. There is very little land available in the tourist area, and it's probably very expensive to boot. But it would make a terrific location. There's a lot more room at the intersection of the QEW and the 420. Having the Bills in in Canada would suck but it would not be the end of the world, at least not to me. Crossing the border would be a hassle, but there are ways to make it easier. For example season ticket holders could be pre-screened by customs and allowed to use express lanes at border crossings. But if you have a DUI or another felony on your record you might be able to get into Canada and that would suck. PTR The only way My concept would make sense to improve downtown buffalo would be to link the above ground subaway system to it, build or incorporate other railway facilities to allow for a rail based approach to downtown, along with serious waterfront improvements with parks, shopping, and a decent resort styled Hotel area, similar to what is happening in downtown Kansas City. I agree with you on one point, if they simply plopped a stadium downtown, that would yield you exactly what HSBC did, not much. I have been listening to talks of waterfront access improvements since I was a kid, and it's nauseating how nothing ever gets done. It's actually criminal to let this city rot like a dead corpse, but nobody seems to really care in NYS government. Allowing a new stadium to be built somewhere else, if that becomes an option for a new owner willing to keep the team a Buffalo based franchise would be devastating. The difference between travelling to Buffalo from Toronto is neglegible, and I can't stress it enough that the city of Buffalo is long overdue for some moral invigoration and some positive developments. For too long the city has been on the losing end of every deal. Yes, Niagara falls makes very good sense, no questions there, but the long term impact to the city of Buffalo economically and as a destination for businesses, travel and conferences would be very bad, something I don't really see it could recover from.
bowery4 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I don't think Superbowls are ever going to happen in Buffalo, the reason not enough high end hotel space (although maybe TO would have it if it was in NF). Buffalo NF and most of the areas around them should be incorporated in to Buffalo, it would solve a lot of problems. Both NYC and TO did this in the past and it helps.
BuffaloBill Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 My support for a NF complex has zippo to do with what city I think deserves a bump. It has to do with building off tourism. Right now the Canadian side of the Falls is where the action is. But NF CAN will never have an NFL team. On game days the US side will be the place to be. But then you can host other events: a college bowl game, a Final Four, Frozen Four, major concerts, a stadium NHL game between the Leafs and Sabres, and (dare I dream it???) A SUPER BOWL!! Then on non-event days you develop an "NFL Experience" type of attraction, stadium tours, a Bills museum, etc. All this just steps away from one of the natural wonders of the world. What you want to create is a synergy between the two side of the Falls. You can't ignore all that is happening on the CAN side. It's almost like a mini-Vegas. You want to be close to that while developing your own attractions. Plus imagine the sex appeal to prospective free agents visiting the Bills. PTR This concept also offers the NFL international exposure (beyond Canada) due to visitors coming to see the Falls. When a new stadium is built in WNY this is the logical place to put it.
The Senator Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) There should be a moratorium on further development close to the actual cataract, and the nation's first State Park should return to it's original condition - once a masterpiece of Frederick Law Olmsted landscape architecture. Can anyone imagine some thinking, "Hey, this 'Old Faithful' geyser is a great location for a new ballpark!", or taking advantage of the magnificent view of Half Dome to site a new stadium in Yosemite? Personally, I'd like to see less development and tourist attractions on the US side of The Falls, rather than more. (Let the Canucks cheapen and destroy Mother Nature's majestic grandeur with their casinos, convention centers, tacky Ripley's Believe-It-Or-Not Museums, and other low-brow tourist crap.) The best location for any new stadium in WNY is the old Bethlehem site, right at the Buffalo/Lackawanna line. Build a totally green facility - totally self-sustaining and powered by geothermal, wind (there's already a small wind farm on the site), and solar energy. Something beautiful, green, and totally unique - like this... Link - Ireland's Aviva Stadium Someplace within a spit of downtown BuffTown - like here... Link - View of Downtown, Erie Basin, and Ft. Erie Rail service from downtown is easy to accomplish - the tracks are already lain - and it's on a colossally large tract of otherwise useless land, directly on a major thoroughfare, less than a mile from the NYS Thruway. In fact - it make so much sense that it could never possibly happen, but any new Bills stadium should be built right here... Edited July 1, 2011 by The Senator
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 In order to make a stadium really successful, you need to make it pedestrian friendly/accessible. Look at what the Padres did in San Diego. That place is awesome and right in the Gas Lamp district. That old railyard doesn't seem to be within walking distance. And you're asking people to take an extra step to get there (train, tram, whatever).
Jobu Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I'm for NF stadium...if it happens I hope it looks similar to what the Vikings just proposed recently! http://www.vikings.com/stadium/new-stadium.html Are you f'ing broken? A retractable roof stadium in Buffalo? Sacrilege.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Are you f'ing broken? A retractable roof stadium in Buffalo? Sacrilege. If you want to use the place for other things besides football (and to justify the cost of a new stadium, it better be multi-use) then you might have to chuck a little bit of tradition to get it done.
The Senator Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) In order to make a stadium really successful, you need to make it pedestrian friendly/accessible. Look at what the Padres did in San Diego. That place is awesome and right in the Gas Lamp district. That old railyard doesn't seem to be within walking distance. And you're asking people to take an extra step to get there (train, tram, whatever). Depends where you're walking from, I guess. That old rail-yard is the entire Bethlehem site, and it's directly across the street from and certainly w/in walking distance of a large portion of Lackawanna and South Buffalo neighborhoods. Also, unlike urban baseball parks, most football stadia are, out of necessity, configured to accommodate large parking lots for the cars, RVs, and buses bringing 70,000+ fans to the site on game day. (Think Foxboro, Meadowlands, etc.) I'd be horrified to think how much of Niagara Falls would have to be obliterated to accommodate so many vehicles w/in 'walking distance' of any new stadium - maybe this aerial view of 'The Ralph' says it better than I can... RWS- Aerial (And even at those urban ballparks, folks are more than willing and eager to take a short hop on the trolleys and subways to get there.) Also, don't forget that this is Buffalo - not San Diego - i.e., it ain't exactly a perfect 68-degrees and sunny year-round here, so 'walking distance' in Nov/Dec/Jan is probably not as high on the priority list as having both public transit and adequate parking adjacent the stadium. Anyway, this is probably a better aerial of the site I'd propose - very close to downtown (you can see the Father Baker Bridge/Route 5 in the lower left) - probably actually close enough for many to walk, actually, IF there was a lakeside pedestrian plaza from downtown... Bethlehem Site Edited July 1, 2011 by The Senator
Marv's Neighbor Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 You guys are dreaming! Read today's News about the Peace Bridge. 10+ years of BS & Harupmhs and what do we have to show for it? Area marketing is good only as long as you don't have to cross an International Border to accomplish it. Going to/from Canada is not the breeze it used to be. Can it be done? Sure! Can it be a giant pain in the ass? Absolutely! As for walking across the Rainbow Bridge???? Having Graduated from Niarara U, I can tell you that the fall/winter winds along the Gorge, coincidental with the NFL Season, are unbelievable. It's not the casual/pleasant walk you may think it to be. As of now, we don't even know where we're walking to, as in where's the site? I've been a BILLS Fan since day 1, and wish them only the best, but this thread seems to be a giant reach, likley due to the boredom of our uncertain Season. You have to remember that, since the BILLS were founded, 50% of the WNY population has had to move away. I think the area would be especially hard pressed to come up with the financing for a new Stadium anytime soon.
erynthered Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Depends where you're walking from, I guess. That old rail-yard is the entire Bethlehem site, and it's directly across the street from and certainly w/in walking distance of a large portion of Lackawanna and South Buffalo neighborhoods. Also, unlike urban baseball parks, most football stadia are, out of necessity, configured to accommodate large parking lots for the cars, RVs, and buses bringing 70,000+ fans to the site on game day. (Think Foxboro, Meadowlands, etc.) I'd be horrified to think how much of Niagara Falls would have to be obliterated to accommodate so many vehicles w/in 'walking distance' of any new stadium - maybe this aerial view of 'The Ralph' says it better than I can... RWS- Aerial (And even at those urban ballparks, folks are more than willing and eager to take a short hop on the trolleys and subways to get there.) Also, don't forget that this is Buffalo - not San Diego - i.e., it ain't exactly a perfect 68-degrees and sunny year-round here, so 'walking distance' in Nov/Dec/Jan is probably not as high on the priority list as having both public transit and adequate parking adjacent the stadium. Anyway, this is probably a better aerial of the site I'd propose - very close to downtown (you can see the Father Baker Bridge/Route 5 in the lower left) - probably actually close enough for many to walk, actually, IF there was a lakeside pedestrian plaza from downtown... Bethlehem Site Who owns that land now? I like your ideas, Senator.
The Senator Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Who owns that land now? I like your ideas, Senator. Most of it belongs to a Luxembourg-based global steel conglomerate... ArcelorMittal They've been promising for over 5-years to begin rehabilitating the site (which I believe is now designated a 'brownfield' site) and parcel it out for development - but I don't see anything at all going on as I cruise past it several times a week. (Think NFTA holding on to 60 acres of prime lakefront real-estate for over 40 years, tossing out viable businesses like 'The Pier' restaurant as they come up with a new 'grand scheme' to every few years to 'totally transform' the site, but ultimately doing absolute nothing with it other than using it to store the ice boom in the summer!) If the will was there - along with a forward-thinking developer - I'm sure the land could be acquired, even if it meant taking it under 'eminent domain' laws. I gotta think that, when the economy finally does turn around (it always does), there could even be federal dollars for a 'first-in-the-nation, totally-green' stadium, which could be a model for all future stadia. (Tip O'Neil and Ted Kennedy got over a $$ billion $$ in federal funds - which, with delays and overruns, grew to over $$ 8 billion $$ in federal funds - for that whole 'Big Dig' fiasco!!!) But then, like I said, it all just makes too much sense to even happen in WNY! Edited July 1, 2011 by The Senator
jumbalaya Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Niagara Falls is just what we need with our drunk, suicidal fans. It is the perfect place to go after a tough loss.
Snorom Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aFauB8KNc_k8rGiuOHLTig?feat=directlink Always liked Lucas Oil Stadium and was wondering what it would look like in downtown Niagara Falls. Slapped together using http://www.splashup.com/ a great photoshop alternative online. it needs to face the falls so the one endzone that is fully glassed is a view of the falls for all to see inside the stadium
KollegeStudnet Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Doing some research...the NF stadium would be the closest stadium to a casino! The complex around the stadium should be significant to WNY's history... If I had plans to build the stadium I would propose the following: -history museum of the WNY and Southern Ontario area -build an 1901 pan-American fair http://www.google.com/m/search?site=images&source=mog&hl=en&gl=us&client=safari&q=worlds%20fair%20buffalo&sa=N#i=2 ...which would be lit at dusk and would house several restaurants, shops and several hotels...it would be an awesome tourist attraction alone, because it showcased and introduced the power of light--something most buffalonians don't recall learning at Kenmore West, Tonanwanda or any other high school! This would be a project surrounding the stadium...a mini city based on heritage, the power of light and the power of being a Bills fan! -have a cultural center surrounding all cultures, which have migrated to Southern Ontario and WNY from the 3 waves of immigration--this would of course include Native American tribes -a park which would have bronze statues of past players coaches--including a 15 foot statue of Ralph Wilson Jr. Edited July 1, 2011 by KollegeStudnet
KollegeStudnet Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 What alot of people don't understand is the old Nabisco silo is vacant...Rainbow mall is owned by NCCC and sits vacant...the majority of the homes around Niagara Falls Memorial hospital sits a major area of homes that are vacant/condemned...
justnzane Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I agree with the NF stadium idea. Unfortunately Buffalo is a dying city, much to the fault of the politicians in the area. The best to way develop city growth in an area is to utilize the best natural and man-made resources available to you, like the city did with Lake Erie and the canal. The most logical way to develop large scale growth in this area is to exploit the falls as the featured piece in a large scale revitalization effort where in the long run Niagara Falls should become the dominant city in the area, and absorb Buffalo into its metropolis similar to NYC absorbing Brooklyn 110 years ago. The idea of a Falls stadium makes too much sense for it to happen. You'll probably get some old woman suing the Bills on grounds of environmental issues because she wants to see the Falls from her house, much like the Verizon debacle last year.
BuffaloBill Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I'd be horrified to think how much of Niagara Falls would have to be obliterated to accommodate so many vehicles w/in 'walking distance' of any new stadium Have you seen Niagara Falls (the city) anytime recently? A buldozer would do it wonders. Perhaps the most significant issue with a stadium somewhere near the falls would be traffic flow in and out. The area near the Falls is not set up with easy access, for a stadium, to interstates.
The Senator Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Have you seen Niagara Falls (the city) anytime recently? A buldozer would do it wonders. True enough,but if that's the argument for where to locate, you could start bulldozing Buffalo's East Side - beginning somewhere just past Eddie Brady's and working your way all the way to Kaisertown! Perhaps the most significant issue with a stadium somewhere near the falls would be traffic flow in and out. The area near the Falls is not set up with easy access, for a stadium, to interstates. No such problems with the Bethlehem site... link (It's the big brown spot right in the center, just below Union Ship Canal.) In fact, if you manipulate the map a bit, you can see the entire RWS complex about 2 inches down and 3 inches to the right - looks like you could fit 2 or 3 of them on the Bethlehem site! I agree with the NF stadium idea. Unfortunately Buffalo is a dying city, much to the fault of the politicians in the area. The best to way develop city growth in an area is to utilize the best natural and man-made resources available to you, like the city did with Lake Erie and the canal. The most logical way to develop large scale growth in this area is to exploit the falls as the featured piece in a large scale revitalization effort where in the long run Niagara Falls should become the dominant city in the area, and absorb Buffalo into its metropolis similar to NYC absorbing Brooklyn 110 years ago. The idea of a Falls stadium makes too much sense for it to happen. You'll probably get some old woman suing the Bills on grounds of environmental issues because she wants to see the Falls from her house, much like the Verizon debacle last year. OTOH, I doubt there'd be a single objection - enviromental or otherwise - if someone wanted to build a large sports stadium complex to replace this... Former Bethlehem Steel Site What alot of people don't understand is the old Nabisco silo is vacant...Rainbow mall is owned by NCCC and sits vacant...the majority of the homes around Niagara Falls Memorial hospital sits a major area of homes that are vacant/condemned... You are describing three distinctly separate parcels when what would be required is multiple contiguous parcels, or one colossal parcel, of available land. I think you may be underestimating the amount of land required for a 70,000-80,000-seat stadium, along with associated ancillary field houses, practice fields, parking lots, executive offices, etc. Take another look - Ralph Wilson Stadium Complex It is larger then the entire ECC South campus directly behind. (The Rainbow Centre Mall and attached parking garage combined are still, I believe, smaller than the current Bills field house.) Edited July 1, 2011 by The Senator
Recommended Posts