a real example of class warfare

[birdog1960]

with all the criticism of the president for engaging in class warfare, it's worth remembering the massacre that recently occurred in that war. some forget that it's waged daily with one side completely overwhelming the other. as an aside, by all accounts, alpha natural resources is a fine company and will very likely much improve things for everyone concerned, in and around their mines.

[KD in CA]

So this excuses unions from raping our states to the verge of bankruptcy while people who go to work every day have to fork over more and more in taxes and politicians can hand million dollar giveaways to their buddies??

 

If someone at Massey is guilty of a crime, charge them and if convicted, toss 'em in prison. I don't know anyone who would have a problem with that.

[birdog1960]

So this excuses unions from raping our states to the verge of bankruptcy while people who go to work every day have to fork over more and more in taxes and politicians can hand million dollar giveaways to their buddies??

 

If someone at Massey is guilty of a crime, charge them and if convicted, toss 'em in prison. I don't know anyone who would have a problem with that.

sure, top level execs regularly are held accountable and criminally convicted for stuff like this the article mentions what sounds like a middle manager under the gun which is what generally happens...while the top guys enjoy all the conspicuous consumption they can handle from their ill gotten gains. what do you think they talked about at their board meetings before selling out? i'll bet a large sum it was mostly about plausible deniability. and do you suppose stuff like this might go down even more often without the umwa?

[....lybob]

Don Blankenship was an all world Cheney class POS

[Dante]

sure, top level execs regularly are held accountable and criminally convicted for stuff like this the article mentions what sounds like a middle manager under the gun which is what generally happens...while the top guys enjoy all the conspicuous consumption they can handle from their ill gotten gains. what do you think they talked about at their board meetings before selling out? i'll bet a large sum it was mostly about plausible deniability. and do you suppose stuff like this might go down even more often without the umwa?

Comrade birddog. Most of company ceo's, owners I know earned the right to sit back and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Let others(middle management) worry about the stuff they get paid to worry about. That's why they took the job! Problem with you and the great unwashed is that you think somehow these businesses are acquired by some sort of lottery. Most owners worked their asses off for years to get to the point of "conspicuous consumption" lol. wtf is that by the way?

[birdog1960]

Comrade birddog. Most of company ceo's, owners I know earned the right to sit back and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Let others(middle management) worry about the stuff they get paid to worry about. That's why they took the job! Problem with you and the great unwashed is that you think somehow these businesses are acquired by some sort of lottery. Most owners worked their asses off for years to get to the point of "conspicuous consumption" lol. wtf is that by the way?

if you don't know, then I suspect you really haven't been around too many economic elites. discretion and understatement needn't solely be virtues of the less monied (and it isn't - there are some humble high wealth individuals although our system seems to effectively discourage this)). just because you have it (and possibly have every right to it, unlike blankenship), doesn't mean you need to rub everyones faces in it.

 

ever been to the biltmore? best example of conspicuous consumption i can think of off hand...and people go to it like a shrine, in droves.

Edited June 30, 2011 by birdog1960

[KD in CA]

sure, top level execs regularly are held accountable and criminally convicted for stuff like this the article mentions what sounds like a middle manager under the gun which is what generally happens...while the top guys enjoy all the conspicuous consumption they can handle from their ill gotten gains. what do you think they talked about at their board meetings before selling out? i'll bet a large sum it was mostly about plausible deniability. and do you suppose stuff like this might go down even more often without the umwa?

Yeah, Maddoff is really enjoying that private island he bought. And those Enron guys are living it up big time I hear. Almost as much as Dennis Kozlowski.

 

 

Comrade birddog. Most of company ceo's, owners I know earned the right to sit back and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Let others(middle management) worry about the stuff they get paid to worry about. That's why they took the job! Problem with you and the great unwashed is that you think somehow these businesses are acquired by some sort of lottery. Most owners worked their asses off for years to get to the point of "conspicuous consumption" lol. wtf is that by the way?

 

None of the company CEOs I know 'sit back' for five minutes; instead they bust their ass and worry about the company 24x7x365. Idiots like birddog and peeBills sit in their cubicles and imagine the big shots sitting around the board room sipping cognac and taking turns slapping the secretary's ass.

 

The whining about 'conspicuous consumption' is laughable, as though someone who has earned success should be ashamed to drive a nice car or stay at a nice hotel. And it would obviously come as a huge shock to him that such people really don't think about his nose or his frail ego when they are ordering lobster for lunch. They are just ordering lunch.

[pBills]

So this excuses unions from raping our states to the verge of bankruptcy while people who go to work every day have to fork over more and more in taxes and politicians can hand million dollar giveaways to their buddies??

 

If someone at Massey is guilty of a crime, charge them and if convicted, toss 'em in prison. I don't know anyone who would have a problem with that.

 

 

That is such BS and you know it. Funny thing is that many unionized people wouldn't mind paying more towards their benefits and pensions... yet for dumbasses like you that's still not enough. Let's demonize them even more. Do you ever look outside of you union hatred bubble for items that truly cause State financial problems? Didn't think so. To blame it on one thing is simple.

[pBills]

Yeah, Maddoff is really enjoying that private island he bought. And those Enron guys are living it up big time I hear. Almost as much as Dennis Kozlowski.

 

 

 

 

None of the company CEOs I know 'sit back' for five minutes; instead they bust their ass and worry about the company 24x7x365. Idiots like birddog and peeBills sit in their cubicles and imagine the big shots sitting around the board room sipping cognac and taking turns slapping the secretary's ass.

 

The whining about 'conspicuous consumption' is laughable, as though someone who has earned success should be ashamed to drive a nice car or stay at a nice hotel. And it would obviously come as a huge shock to him that such people really don't think about his nose or his frail ego when they are ordering lobster for lunch. They are just ordering lunch.

 

 

And wow, you labeled a few people from very large cases. What about those who truly caused the economic disaster this country lives in right now located on Wall Street? Ummm, still waiting for someone on the right to truly blame those people. I know one thing, I didn't see any union people handing out bad mortgages or betting against bad financial products. What do you think of Eric Cantor's short bet?

 

Last year the Wall Street Journal reported that Cantor, the No. 2 Republican in the House, had between $1,000 and $15,000 invested ... The fund aggressively "shorts" long-term U.S. Treasury bonds, meaning that it performs well when U.S. debt is undesirable.

 

This man should NOT be part of the deficit/debt ceiling discussions. Bad for him to do this... and supposedly not know. Even worse if he did it on purpose.

 

Now on to your CEO's... good for them I too know many CEO's like that. However, I also know many who sit on their ass, come up an idea for their presentation or speech and then call it a day. I know this because of the work I do on a daily basis, in the past working directly with executives and GEB's. So just keep on showing your ignorance but assuming one just sits in a cubicle.

 

All of that being said, I do not complain about people spending money on this or that because they have the means due to their earned success. My problem is those who may have earned their success or had it handed to them and do nothing but demean or beat down the workers below them. They may have worked their way to the top, but who helps to keep them their... the workers.

[1billsfan]

And wow, you labeled a few people from very large cases. What about those who truly caused the economic disaster this country lives in right now located on Wall Street? Ummm, still waiting for someone on the right to truly blame those people. I know one thing, I didn't see any union people handing out bad mortgages or betting against bad financial products. What do you think of Eric Cantor's short bet?

 

 

 

This man should NOT be part of the deficit/debt ceiling discussions. Bad for him to do this... and supposedly not know. Even worse if he did it on purpose.

 

Now on to your CEO's... good for them I too know many CEO's like that. However, I also know many who sit on their ass, come up an idea for their presentation or speech and then call it a day. I know this because of the work I do on a daily basis, in the past working directly with executives and GEB's. So just keep on showing your ignorance but assuming one just sits in a cubicle.

 

All of that being said, I do not complain about people spending money on this or that because they have the means due to their earned success. My problem is those who may have earned their success or had it handed to them and do nothing but demean or beat down the workers below them. They may have worked their way to the top, but who helps to keep them their... the workers.

 

 

You can't be serious. I don't know if you're lying or sadly misinformed......

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-reckless-endangerment-by-gretchen-morgenson-and-joshua-rosner.html

 

"The authors, Gretchen Morgenson, a Pulitzer Prize-winning business reporter and columnist at The New York Times, and Joshua Rosner, an expert on housing finance, deftly trace the beginnings of the collapse to the mid-1990s, when the Clinton administration called for a partnership between the private sector and Fannie and Freddie to encourage home buying. The mortgage agencies’ government backing was, in effect, a valuable subsidy, which was used by Fannie’s C.E.O., James A. Johnson, to increase home ownership while enriching himself and other executives. A 1996 study by the Congressional Budget Office found that Fannie pocketed about a third of the subsidy rather than passing it on to homeowners. Over his nine years heading Fannie, Johnson personally took home roughly $100 million. His successor, Franklin D. Raines, was treated no less lavishly."

 

Clinton, Johnson, Raines...ALL DEMOCRATS!!!!!!

Edited July 1, 2011 by 1billsfan

[birdog1960]

You can't be serious. I don't know if you're lying or sadly misinformed......

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-reckless-endangerment-by-gretchen-morgenson-and-joshua-rosner.html

 

"The authors, Gretchen Morgenson, a Pulitzer Prize-winning business reporter and columnist at The New York Times, and Joshua Rosner, an expert on housing finance, deftly trace the beginnings of the collapse to the mid-1990s, when the Clinton administration called for a partnership between the private sector and Fannie and Freddie to encourage home buying. The mortgage agencies’ government backing was, in effect, a valuable subsidy, which was used by Fannie’s C.E.O., James A. Johnson, to increase home ownership while enriching himself and other executives. A 1996 study by the Congressional Budget Office found that Fannie pocketed about a third of the subsidy rather than passing it on to homeowners. Over his nine years heading Fannie, Johnson personally took home roughly $100 million. His successor, Franklin D. Raines, was treated no less lavishly."

 

Clinton, Johnson, Raines...ALL DEMOCRATS!!!!!!

you linked to a negative book review and then use that book as evidence? brilliant! the review also says "the real problem, which the authors only hint at, is that Washington and the financial sector have become so tightly intertwined that public accountability has all but vanished." the govt official/financier/industrialist is all the same guy who switches hats back and forth for the purpose of enrichening himself and his buddies. regardless of party affiliation that's just wrong and needs to stop. the most devastating form of class warfare is when we are actually governed by the oppressors.

 

kd, i got plum exhausted reading that extensive list of punished executives...and these cases all happened in such a short time span! what is common to these cases is that the crimes involved victimized the rich. try to cite an example where conviction resulted for victimizing the poor.

the point about being ostentatious (and i'm talking more about 20000 sft homes than lobster lunches) is not that it irks me personally but that greed begets greed. it directly or indirectly can lead to events such as this mine disaster. people many centuries ago realized this when greed was listed as one of the seven deadly sins. current american society seems to have deemed it a virtue.

Edited July 1, 2011 by birdog1960

[1billsfan]

you linked to a negative book review and then use that book as evidence? brilliant! the review also says "the real problem, which the authors only hint at, is that Washington and the financial sector have become so tightly intertwined that public accountability has all but vanished." the govt official/financier/industrialist is all the same guy who switches hats back and forth for the purpose of enrichening himself and his buddies. regardless of party affiliation that's just wrong and needs to stop. the most devastating form of class warfare is when we are actually governed by the oppressors.

 

kd, i got plum exhausted reading that extensive list of punished executives...and these cases all happened in such a short time span! the point about being ostentatious (and i'm talking more about 20000 sft homes than lobster lunches) is not that it irks me personally but that greed begets greed. it directly or indirectly can lead to events such as this mine disaster. people many centuries ago realized this when greed was listed as one of the seven deadly sins. current american society seems to have deemed it a virtue.

 

 

Considering that this review was written by the far left economist Robert Reich and he does not dispute the facts of where the crisis started, to me it's damning evidence that the Democrats are truly the ones to blame.The facts are indisputable. Blaming Wall Street is like blaming a hooker for turning tricks. They saw the opportunity to make fast money and surprise surprise they took it! The blame of where this all started gets put at the feet of the Democrats.

[birdog1960]

Considering that this review was written by the far left economist Robert Reich and he does not dispute the facts of where the crisis started, to me it's damning evidence that the Democrats are truly the ones to blame.The facts are indisputable. Blaming Wall Street is like blaming a hooker for turning tricks. They saw the opportunity to make fast money and surprise surprise they took it! The blame of where this all started gets put at the feet of the Democrats.

....but prostitution is illegal

[KD in CA]

And wow, you labeled a few people from very large cases. What about those who truly caused the economic disaster this country lives in right now located on Wall Street? Ummm, still waiting for someone on the right to truly blame those people. I know one thing, I didn't see any union people handing out bad mortgages or betting against bad financial products. What do you think of Eric Cantor's short bet?

 

You mean like Chris Dodd and Barney Frank? Oh, right, you didn't mean those people who bear any responsibility. !@#$ing moron.

 

the point about being ostentatious (and i'm talking more about 20000 sft homes than lobster lunches) is not that it irks me personally but that greed begets greed. it directly or indirectly can lead to events such as this mine disaster. people many centuries ago realized this when greed was listed as one of the seven deadly sins. current american society seems to have deemed it a virtue.

 

So big house = mine disaster. Nice logic, conner.

 

Maybe if you stopped pressing your nose up against the window of a world you don't live in, it would 'irk' you less. Not to mention the number of people who have 20k sf houses is infinitesimally small so your whole point is meaningless.

[1billsfan]

....but prostitution is illegal

 

Wall Street took advantage of a corrupt and dangerous policy started by Democrats and put it on steroids. The ball rolling was put in motion by the Democrats. Wall Street was complicit in the downfall. It's too bad that the republicans, and Bush in particular, was too afraid to stop the nonsense, Bush used up all of his political capital on the wars and had no fight in him to truly deal with the sup prime situation. There's that and his buddies were probably making a lot of money too. Everyone had a hand in it. But there's no disputing who started the whole mess. I can't believe that Johnson and Raines are not sitting in jail right now.

[KD in CA]

That is such BS and you know it. Funny thing is that many unionized people wouldn't mind paying more towards their benefits and pensions... yet for dumbasses like you that's still not enough. Let's demonize them even more. Do you ever look outside of you union hatred bubble for items that truly cause State financial problems? Didn't think so. To blame it on one thing is simple.

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

Yeah....riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I guess that explains why those salt-of-the-earth union members voted down those modest concessions in CT this week.

[birdog1960]

 

So big house = mine disaster. Nice logic, conner.

 

Maybe if you stopped pressing your nose up against the window of a world you don't live in, it would 'irk' you less. Not to mention the number of people who have 20k sf houses is infinitesimally small so your whole point is meaningless.

and your attack on me rests on your assumption that i'm financially unsuccessful. logically, this makes as much sense as assuming that someone who doesn't engage in public displays of affection is celibate. but again you miss the bigger point which is that we each define success in very different ways.

 

that "infinitesimally small" group wields much power and influence. that's the problem.

Edited July 1, 2011 by birdog1960

[KD in CA]

and your attack on me rests on your assumption that i'm financially unsuccessful. logically, this makes as much sense as assuming that someone who doesn't engage in public displays of affection is celibate. but again you miss the bigger point which is that we each define success in very different ways.

 

Wrong. Where did I say or imply that I considered you financially unsuccessful? I have implied that you a) have a very limited understanding of what happens at a senior executive level within a company, and b)have a serious envy issue with those who are more successful than you.

 

And spare me your pathetic attempt to now claim the high road of 'I define success differently', when you have made it clear that your opinions about people you don't know are primarily driven by the square footage of their homes.

[birdog1960]

Wrong. Where did I say or imply that I considered you financially unsuccessful? I have implied that you a) have a very limited understanding of what happens at a senior executive level within a company, and b)have a serious envy issue with those who are more successful than you.

 

And spare me your pathetic attempt to now claim the high road of 'I define success differently', when you have made it clear that your opinions about people you don't know are primarily driven by the square footage of their homes.

you confuse envy (another of the seven deadly sins) with disapproval.

 

and what was the goal of the cubicle comment if not to belittle both pbills and my circumstance?

Edited July 1, 2011 by birdog1960

[KD in CA]

you confuse envy (another of the seven deadly sins) with disapproval.

Actually, I think you do. 'Disapproving' of the size of someone's home? Simply pathetic. I'll bet 95% of the people living in those huge homes devote a larger % of their income to charities than you do.

 

 

 

and what was the goal of the cubicle comment if not to belittle both pbills and my circumstance?

To highlight the fact that neither of you have any idea what is happening in the board room, but that doesn't stop you from making ridiculous assumptions.