Homey D. Clown Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Terry Pegula seems to be a godsend for The Sabres, not that the team was in big time jeopardy of leaving or anything but his purchase secures their future in Buffalo and puts to rest any conversation of them ever leaving... More importantly- He is committed to building a winner and spending what it takes. It would be great if he bought the Bills obviously and instituted the same philosophy. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Free agency in The NHL begins on Friday. The Sabres look to be players, maybe big players. My question is: Does Wilson concern himself with another guy coming into his market and setting a precedent of winning at any cost and follow suite? Wilson is aware of The Sabres importance in the market and their winning ways of late. I heard Tom Donahoe acknowledge this point in an interview on San Diego Radio about 4 years ago.... What does Wilson have to lose by going all in for once? You have to think he wants a championship. I think Pegula's Sabres create some competetition in the market for discretionary/recreational dollars from fans. If you have to choose between Sabres and Bills season tickets at the same cost which do you choose? The Sabres look to be pretty good. The Bills could do some damage in free agency when it begins-but will they? Finally-I hope the Sabres bring back Chris Drury. His numbers have tapered off but the guy is a PURE WINNER. That is a rare thing to find- a player who leads by example and inspires play around him. I loved him as a Sabre. He should be the captain... Once people understand Ralph Wilson is way beyond building a long term winner, the better you can grasp the state of this franchise. He is in his 90s and simply trying to keep the product good enough to keep it in the black. He will not spend large chunks of money on anything, that's not what a smart business man does, that's what a good football savvy owner does, and Ralph has never been the latter. That doesn't imply Wilson doesn't want the team to win, he simply thinks that it can be done without financial risk, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news to all the Wilson lovers(i really don't hate him) but there isn't an era other than the Polian/Butler era where RW has been aggressive to win a championship. The SuperBowl years happened in spite if him. What happens with the Sabres, and I do absolutely love Terry Pegula for doing what I wish I could do for the Bills, will have ZERO impact on the frugal old man. But I'll watch them till the end in spite of my personal views of the owner, I can't help but love this team even though it has returned to it's former days of perennial mediocrity.
jumbalaya Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 This is a dangerous time for Wilson and the Bills. It could get very ugly if/when Pegs/Regier make a huge splash in FA for the Sabres and the Bills sit on their hands. When you have one owner willing to do whatever it takes to win and another who doesn't seem to be willing, things could get bad in a hurry. At his age nothing is dangerous for Ralph. I am sure ralph like us would be glad to see a Buffalo team win a championship.
Scrappy Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Ralph would rather have the money than a chance at hardware, that's the biggest difference between him & Pegula.
DrDawkinstein Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 At his age nothing is dangerous for Ralph. I am sure ralph like us would be glad to see a Buffalo team win a championship. Sure, he would "be glad", but it's not a priority. That's the point. Of course he "wants to win", but not as badly as he should. Winning isn't the main goal for Ralph, it's just a nice bonus that might come along with making some dough for his business.
shrader Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 You had me until Drury. His knee is shot and he is at the end of his career. Pure winner? I had the same argument with someone who said the same thing about Flutie. I like Drury but he's done. But he does know how to win, lucking his way into a situation where he's a young guy surrounded by elite talent.
Wooderson Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The sabres overpay for crap talent that they expect to be good as long as they can still play, or stay healthy, or have a breakout season. Much like the Bills did with Kelsey. But cmon, they could have signed Drury, Briere both during the season and gotten it done with early for less money. That boned them, then they had to overpay for Vanek. Then, not learning from thief mistakes already, they didn't renegotiate Cambpell during the season and lost him too. They were extremely reactive during those 2-3 years and completely broke up a stellar team that could have been there for years to come. Instead we have an overpaid Vanek, an overpaid Connolly, no real captain, no real defense, zero goal scorers, nobody to make big plays in big games when it counts, and a goalie that IMO isn't really great like this entire town thinks he is. He doesn't show up for big games and that was proof this year in the playoffs. He is being paid like one of the top goalies in the league and he doesn't constitute making top 10 money at this point. The thing is that you wouldn't get much for him in return at this point because most teams see that without a good supporting cast he is paper thin. We should have offloaded him for some huge scoring talent after the Olympic run. Say what you will about this post. That will just prove my point about how all the "bandwagon" sabres fan love recognizing par for the course talent. To your question. I'd rather pay triple my Bills season tickets than the price for the sabres seasons. Regardless of putting a competitive team together or not. 74,000 fans in a football stadium are 1million times more exciting than the 19,000 wine and cheese fans that go to the sabres games and talk about marketing dollars and sales reports during the entire game. Half of the 200 level are filled with seats bought by Ingram Micro every year. You can talk about the past regime all you want, what does that have to do with Mr. Pegula and the changes he's been making to the franchise? We can complain all we want about Drury, Briere, Campbell, and Vanek but that's all in the past and Pegula had nothing to do with it, even saying that if he were the owner Drury and Briere wouldn't have made free agency back then. I think your Miller reasoning is blasphemy as well. Dude won the Vezina last year and has carried us to the playoffs with little to no defense or supporting cast the past few years, a goalie can't do everything on his own. You'd rather pay triple to watch the Bills win 4 games a year then watch a playoff contending team? You're out of your mind. Comparing a Bills atmosphere to Sabres is like comparing apples to oranges. I go to a Bills game to get drunk, hang out with my buddies, tailgate, and watch some football. I go to a Sabres game to relax, have a couple pounders, not have to worry about sitting in the cold, and enjoy some good ole fashioned hockey. Say what you want about "bandwagon" Sabres fans, but the organization seems to be headed in the right direction, and that's ALOT more than I can say about the Bills right now.
Ennjay Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The sabres overpay for crap talent that they expect to be good as long as they can still play, or stay healthy, or have a breakout season. Much like the Bills did with Kelsey. But cmon, they could have signed Drury, Briere both during the season and gotten it done with early for less money. That boned them, then they had to overpay for Vanek. Then, not learning from thief mistakes already, they didn't renegotiate Cambpell during the season and lost him too. They were extremely reactive during those 2-3 years and completely broke up a stellar team that could have been there for years to come. Instead we have an overpaid Vanek, an overpaid Connolly, no real captain, no real defense, zero goal scorers, nobody to make big plays in big games when it counts, and a goalie that IMO isn't really great like this entire town thinks he is. He doesn't show up for big games and that was proof this year in the playoffs. He is being paid like one of the top goalies in the league and he doesn't constitute making top 10 money at this point. The thing is that you wouldn't get much for him in return at this point because most teams see that without a good supporting cast he is paper thin. We should have offloaded him for some huge scoring talent after the Olympic run. Say what you will about this post. That will just prove my point about how all the "bandwagon" sabres fan love recognizing par for the course talent. To your question. I'd rather pay triple my Bills season tickets than the price for the sabres seasons. Regardless of putting a competitive team together or not. 74,000 fans in a football stadium are 1million times more exciting than the 19,000 wine and cheese fans that go to the sabres games and talk about marketing dollars and sales reports during the entire game. Half of the 200 level are filled with seats bought by Ingram Micro every year. I think someone needs a hug.
BuffaloWest Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 [/font] Our differences are not substative as much as they are nuanced. As an owner he is demonstrating a committment to success which in the end he is hoping to get a return on in the box office and on the ice. In order to compete for a Stanley Cup you can't be average or lax in the way you operate. How he conducts himself, the energy he brings, resonates throughout the organization. No one can not deny that the culture of the organization has changed with his assumption of ownership. Here is where I respectfully differ with you. With Ralph the Bills were more a business venture than a sporting competition. No matter how much of a partisan you are you have to acknowledge that the Bills have been a very second rate franchise with for the most part a very mediocre organizational staffing in their half century of operation. The irony is that he has had quality people such as Polian, Butler/A.J. Smith and Chuck Knox who did quality work for him. They were dispatched or departed on their own because there was an irreconcilable conflict with his business priority. When you are 93 yrs old and have been doing things in a certain way for half a century you don't dramatically change your style. The best thing he can do at this point is to stay out of the way and let the football people do their jobs within the confines of the budget. What this franchise doesn't need is drama. It simply needs a steady level of competence from the football staff without much interference from the business staff. Consistently doing things the right way is not sexy. However, in the long run it works. I believe that is what is currently being done (I hope). Following an established plan and being patient with the wretching process requires a lot of fortitude. But that is the recipe for success. Agree...Lookit, if Pittsburg or Green Bay had run things like the Bills for the past 12 years, they would be criticized or irrelelvent too (Even with multiple championships). The Bills may be on the right track, but at the very least-on a better track. Pitt and Green Bay show that you can build from within if you draft properly and have the right personnel. We have had some of the very best come through BFLO, but Wilson blew it and the guys went on to win elsewhere. You have to learn from past mistakes-Wilson has made too many mistakes to count, and if The NFL wasnt a bulletproof business, and Buffalo wasnt unbelievably loyal, The Bills would have been out of business years ago. But he does know how to win, lucking his way into a situation where he's a young guy surrounded by elite talent. Flutie was a winner...We'll never know if he had enough to go all the way with The Bills because he got boned and pulled before the Music City Miracle game-so bad comparison...Since that day-Karma has been a real B word. Wilson should retire his number o something to exercise that one..Another guy like Drury, Flutie-David Eckstein with St Louis and Anaheim-Small undersized, scrappy player who won MVP of the World Series a few year ago-Winner and leader (By example)
nucci Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Agree...Lookit, if Pittsburg or Green Bay had run things like the Bills for the past 12 years, they would be criticized or irrelelvent too (Even with multiple championships). The Bills may be on the right track, but at the very least-on a better track. Pitt and Green Bay show that you can build from within if you draft properly and have the right personnel. We have had some of the very best come through BFLO, but Wilson blew it and the guys went on to win elsewhere. You have to learn from past mistakes-Wilson has made too many mistakes to count, and if The NFL wasnt a bulletproof business, and Buffalo wasnt unbelievably loyal, The Bills would have been out of business years ago. Flutie was a winner...We'll never know if he had enough to go all the way with The Bills because he got boned and pulled before the Music City Miracle game-so bad comparison...Since that day-Karma has been a real B word. Wilson should retire his number o something to exercise that one..Another guy like Drury, Flutie-David Eckstein with St Louis and Anaheim-Small undersized, scrappy player who won MVP of the World Series a few year ago-Winner and leader (By example) What has he won?
shrader Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 What has he won? And for the record, I was talking about Drury.
Jauronimo Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 What has he won? Pro Bowl selection (1998) CFL All-Star selection 1991-1994, 1996-1997 1984 Heisman Trophy 1984 Walter Camp Award 1984 Davey O'Brien Award 1984 Maxwell Award 1984 UPI Player of the Year 1998 NFL Comeback Player of the Year 3× Grey Cup champion 3× Grey Cup MVP (1992, 1996, 1997) 6× CFL's Most Outstanding Player (1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997) 1983 Liberty Bowl MVP 37-28 as a starter in the NFL Not a bad career.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Flutie was a winner...We'll never know if he had enough to go all the way with The Bills because he got boned and pulled before the Music City Miracle game-so bad comparison...Since that day-Karma has been a real B word. Wilson should retire his number o something to exercise that one..Another guy like Drury, Flutie-David Eckstein with St Louis and Anaheim-Small undersized, scrappy player who won MVP of the World Series a few year ago-Winner and leader (By example) For the 9,000th time....Johnson had the game won when he left the field. See: special teams breakdown. PTR
Ramius Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Pro Bowl selection (1998) CFL All-Star selection 1991-1994, 1996-1997 1984 Heisman Trophy 1984 Walter Camp Award 1984 Davey O'Brien Award 1984 Maxwell Award 1984 UPI Player of the Year 1998 NFL Comeback Player of the Year 3× Grey Cup champion 3× Grey Cup MVP (1992, 1996, 1997) 6× CFL's Most Outstanding Player (1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997) 1983 Liberty Bowl MVP 37-28 as a starter in the NFL Not a bad career. Got it. Flutie has won nothing at the NFL level.
shrader Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Got it. Flutie has won nothing at the NFL level. And I'm not so sure a bunch of individual accomplishments really factor in to the discussion here. If we're talking winning games/championships, those 3 Grey Cups are the only ones that should enter this discussion.
Chandler#81 Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The sabres overpay for crap talent that they expect to be good as long as they can still play, or stay healthy, or have a breakout season. Much like the Bills did with Kelsey. But cmon, they could have signed Drury, Briere both during the season and gotten it done with early for less money. That boned them, then they had to overpay for Vanek. Then, not learning from thief mistakes already, they didn't renegotiate Cambpell during the season and lost him too. They were extremely reactive during those 2-3 years and completely broke up a stellar team that could have been there for years to come. Instead we have an overpaid Vanek, an overpaid Connolly, no real captain, no real defense, zero goal scorers, nobody to make big plays in big games when it counts, and a goalie that IMO isn't really great like this entire town thinks he is. He doesn't show up for big games and that was proof this year in the playoffs. He is being paid like one of the top goalies in the league and he doesn't constitute making top 10 money at this point. The thing is that you wouldn't get much for him in return at this point because most teams see that without a good supporting cast he is paper thin. We should have offloaded him for some huge scoring talent after the Olympic run. Say what you will about this post. That will just prove my point about how all the "bandwagon" sabres fan love recognizing par for the course talent. To your question. I'd rather pay triple my Bills season tickets than the price for the sabres seasons. Regardless of putting a competitive team together or not. 74,000 fans in a football stadium are 1million times more exciting than the 19,000 wine and cheese fans that go to the sabres games and talk about marketing dollars and sales reports during the entire game. Half of the 200 level are filled with seats bought by Ingram Micro every year. Stand by to be beaten up on your opinion of Miller.. P.S. I couldn't agree more!
nucci Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 And for the record, I was talking about Drury. I know. See you over at SabreSpace.
Jauronimo Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Got it. Flutie has won nothing at the NFL level. Winning 37 games and a Pro Bowl selection is nothing? What's with the Flutie animosity? He was a good ball player who had a terrific career. He didn't have the most talent but he played his heart out and brought the Bills to the playoffs.
Ramius Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 And I'm not so sure a bunch of individual accomplishments really factor in to the discussion here. If we're talking winning games/championships, those 3 Grey Cups are the only ones that should enter this discussion. What does the NFL award the Grey Cup for?
Doc Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Like Ralph, if all Pegs does is keep the Sabres in Buffalo, I'll be thankful/grateful. And while the moves he's made look good, unless they start winning, it's little more than what Dan Snyder (like Pegs, a fan who amassed enough money to buy his favorite team) has done with the Redskins.
JohnC Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Like Ralph, if all Pegs does is keep the Sabres in Buffalo, I'll be thankful/grateful. And while the moves he's made look good, unless they start winning, it's little more than what Dan Snyder (like Pegs, a fan who amassed enough money to buy his favorite team) has done with the Redskins. When Galosano sold the team to Pegula he put in the sell contract a clause that would prohibit the team from be moved if he decided to sell the franchise sometime down the road. There is a big difference between Pegula and Snyder. While Snyder got involved in making fantasy football free agency acquisitions Pegula is not doing that. The hockey staff is making the personnel decisions. What Pegula is doing is creating an environment where they have more room to maneuver and make personnel decisions. Ultimately, the hockey staff will be held accountable without having any excuses of undo limitations imposed upon them. Edited June 30, 2011 by JohnC
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