PDaDdy Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I had a really interesting thought. We all know the NCAA has some very restrictive rules regarding boosters and outside forces putting money in players pockets. Why I am curious about is the NCAA empowered to deny an american citizen athlete the ability to engage in free trade and the capitalist system. I am no expert but doesn't this seem unconstitutional? I hope some on here have some knowledge of the system and what rules this might violate. It kills me how these young kids are breaking the rules and making money off of their name. You know the rules. For fear of it impacting a potential pro career, don't break them. That being said the rules are just FLAT OUT WRONG and need be changed which would help remove any temptation for a broke kid to violate these rules to make money to get some nice things. This got me thinking of a work around. If a player wanted to go into the school store, purchase their own jersey, sign it with their own signature and sell it on eBay as a signed jersey, would the NCAA have any ability to stop an american citizen from selling a piece of merchandise that they purchased with their own money, signed and put on eBay? Something is REALLY REALLY wrong with the NCAA if they can suspend constitutional rights to free trade and capitalism for american citizens to make money. This would not even go against the spirit of the NCAA whose goal is supposedly to protect student athletes from outside influences that potentially don't have their best interests at heart. I would love to see a student athlete take this approach with the full backing of legal counsel to attempt to challenge the NCAAs directives to keep these players poor and prevent them from profiting from their fame. Yes, some get a free ride with tuition but that amount of compensation pales in comparison to the money the university makes off of their cheap fixed wage labor force. For shame NCAA!!!
KD in CA Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Why I am curious about is the NCAA empowered to deny an american citizen athlete the ability to engage in free trade and the capitalist system. I am no expert but doesn't this seem unconstitutional? How exactly is the NCAA denying any citizen anything? Last I checked, athletes were not required to participate in NCAA programs. "free trade" doesn't include forcing an organization to pay someone if they don't want to.
The Senator Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I had a really interesting thought. We all know the NCAA has some very restrictive rules regarding boosters and outside forces putting money in players pockets. Why I am curious about is the NCAA empowered to deny an american citizen athlete the ability to engage in free trade and the capitalist system. I am no expert but doesn't this seem unconstitutional? I hope some on here have some knowledge of the system and what rules this might violate. It kills me how these young kids are breaking the rules and making money off of their name. You know the rules. For fear of it impacting a potential pro career, don't break them. That being said the rules are just FLAT OUT WRONG and need be changed which would help remove any temptation for a broke kid to violate these rules to make money to get some nice things. This got me thinking of a work around. If a player wanted to go into the school store, purchase their own jersey, sign it with their own signature and sell it on eBay as a signed jersey, would the NCAA have any ability to stop an american citizen from selling a piece of merchandise that they purchased with their own money, signed and put on eBay? Something is REALLY REALLY wrong with the NCAA if they can suspend constitutional rights to free trade and capitalism for american citizens to make money. This would not even go against the spirit of the NCAA whose goal is supposedly to protect student athletes from outside influences that potentially don't have their best interests at heart. I would love to see a student athlete take this approach with the full backing of legal counsel to attempt to challenge the NCAAs directives to keep these players poor and prevent them from profiting from their fame. Yes, some get a free ride with tuition but that amount of compensation pales in comparison to the money the university makes off of their cheap fixed wage labor force. For shame NCAA!!! Interesting to whom?
billsfaninvgs Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I am not a athlete. I am also not a student. What I do know as fact is that the athletes don't have to be students. School is very expensive. They don't have to pay for it. Seems like a fair trade to me. I am paying for my wife to finish school. I sure wish she was athletic enough for a scholarship.
PDaDdy Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) How exactly is the NCAA denying any citizen anything? Last I checked, athletes were not required to participate in NCAA programs. "free trade" doesn't include forcing an organization to pay someone if they don't want to. When was it made optional for college athletes to participate in NCAA regulations or not? If they want to play sports in college they come under the influence of the NCAA right? Edited June 28, 2011 by PDaDdy
The Senator Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I am not a athlete. I am also not a student. What I do know as fact is that the athletes don't have to be students. School is very expensive. They don't have to pay for it. Seems like a fair trade to me. I am paying for my wife to finish school. I sure wish she was athletic enough for a scholarship. Well wouldn't you like it even more then, if - in addition to the scholarship - she also got a new car and a nice apartment?
PDaDdy Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) I am not a athlete. I am also not a student. What I do know as fact is that the athletes don't have to be students. School is very expensive. They don't have to pay for it. Seems like a fair trade to me. I am paying for my wife to finish school. I sure wish she was athletic enough for a scholarship. I don't get that. Cars are very expensive. If your job gave you the use of a free company car and no other compensation is that fair? The pay must fit the job in my opinion. I don't understand the attitude, the jealousy and the envy of these uniquely gifted athletes. I would also say that you are 1000% percent wrong. Athletes do have to be students. Universities couldn't run their enormous money making machines known as college sports with young men and women who were athletes only and not students. This would be called a job, a profession that was subject to unions, strikes, free agency, etc. Edited June 28, 2011 by PDaDdy
billsfaninvgs Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Well wouldn't you like it even more then, if - in addition to the scholarship - she also got a new car and a nice apartment? That's funny... You got me there. Not the apartment but they can help me pay down my mortgage.....
billsfaninvgs Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I don't get that. Cars are very expensive. If your job gave you the use of a free company car and no other compensation is that fair? The pay must fit the job in my opinion. I don't understand the attitude, the jealousy and the envy of these uniquely gifted athletes. I would also say that you are 1000% percent wrong. Athletes do have to be students. Universities couldn't run their enormous money making machines known as college sports with young men and women who were athletes only and not students. This would be called a job, a profession that was subject to unions, strikes, free agency, etc. I have no jealousy towards athletes. I enjoy watching collage sports and I am a season ticket holder for both basketball and football at the local university. Most kids in school have to work several jobs or take extreme loans out to afford school. These kids get to go for free... FREE... then the really talented ones get to try and go pro and make a ton of money. It's not a job. Its them trying to get a education. Thad the bottom line is they should be going to school to get a education. They don't have to play sports they can choose not to. If they decide to play they get compensation. A free education.
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 When was it made optional for college athletes to participate in NCAA regulations or not? If they want to play sports in college they come under the influence of the NCAA right? They can participate in intramural sports like everyone else. And take out a student loan and enjoy the life of a college student. I don't get that. Cars are very expensive. If your job gave you the use of a free company car and no other compensation is that fair? The pay must fit the job in my opinion. I don't understand the attitude, the jealousy and the envy of these uniquely gifted athletes. Well, there is the free tuition, room and board that could set a real "student" back over 200 grand.
PDaDdy Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 I have no jealousy towards athletes. I enjoy watching collage sports and I am a season ticket holder for both basketball and football at the local university. Most kids in school have to work several jobs or take extreme loans out to afford school. These kids get to go for free... FREE... then the really talented ones get to try and go pro and make a ton of money. It's not a job. Its them trying to get a education. Thad the bottom line is they should be going to school to get a education. They don't have to play sports they can choose not to. If they decide to play they get compensation. A free education. Come on man that is just ridiculous. Welcome to the world. People with unique gifts are treated differently than everyone else. These are not "most kids." This is America. This is a capitalist society. The exceptional get paid. These guys make MILLIONS for the universities from merchandise, television rights, alumni donations, notoriety, commercials. You think making a crappy $20,000 a year in tuition compensation is enough? What a joke. Get over it!!!! If you really feel as strongly as you seem to what if colleges could only make as much money on athletics as it took to cover athletes tuition. They shouldn't be able to PROFIT from other people when their workforce has no ability to negotiate their compensation. If this was a non profit situation I could see and would agree 100% with your point. Super models get paid millions because they had the genetic fortune of being hot. It is what it is!
Cynical Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 When was it made optional for college athletes to participate in NCAA regulations or not? When the student athlete decided which school he would attend. If they want to play sports in college they come under the influence of the NCAA right? As long as the university they are attending chooses to follow the NCAA regarding athletics, then yes. Otherwise, no. There are numerous athletic associations regarding college athletics. The NCAA just happens to be the largest and most well known.
PDaDdy Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) When the student athlete decided which school he would attend. As long as the university they are attending chooses to follow the NCAA regarding athletics, then yes. Otherwise, no. There are numerous athletic associations regarding college athletics. The NCAA just happens to be the largest and most well known. So you're saying the NCAA doesn't govern all college athletics? Let me also get this clear adherence to NCAA rules and regulations is optional? You are kidding right? What college wouldn't decide not to follow NCAA regulations and get the best talent they could with booster money? Methinks you have no idea what you are talking about. Edited June 28, 2011 by PDaDdy
Cynical Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Come on man that is just ridiculous. Welcome to the world. People with unique gifts are treated differently than everyone else. These are not "most kids." This is America. This is a capitalist society. The exceptional get paid. Not always. These guys make MILLIONS for the universities from merchandise, television rights, alumni donations, notoriety, commercials. You think making a crappy $20,000 a year in tuition compensation is enough? What a joke. Get over it!!!! Actually, that's a capitalists dream. Make millions while paying out pittance. If you really feel as strongly as you seem to what if colleges could only make as much money on athletics as it took to cover athletes tuition. They shouldn't be able to PROFIT from other people when their workforce has no ability to negotiate their compensation. Are you serious? That is the new America. The workforce has little to no "rights". Super models get paid millions because they had the genetic fortune of being hot. It is what it is! Super models get paid millions because they are hot AND society deems that a premium.
justnzane Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 As a former D-III athlete, I would have killed to have received any compensation (beyond meal money, lodging for competitions, and busing) at all for all of the blood and sweat I spilled. That said, I got to travel up and down the eastern seaboard competing against some very high level athletes including a couple Olympians.That is a set of bragging rights along with my 5 years of education for my bachelors (155 credits) that I earned in that experience. Sure I am 40 grand in debt for that alone and another 30 for two years of masters classes, but being able to do what I did is something that no one will ever take from me.
Cynical Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 So you're saying the NCAA doesn't govern all college athletics? That's right. Let me also get this clear adherence to NCAA rules and regulations is optional? You are kidding right? Nope. Feel free in finding the law that states schools and universities MUST participate in the NCAA. Good luck in finding it. Methinks you have no idea what you are talking about. Did you know every school in the SEC, except for Kentucky, has a hockey team? Don't believe me? Try this link: Linky Further, did you know these hockey teams do NOT participate in the NCAA? The association controlling these teams is the ACHA
billsfaninvgs Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Come on man that is just ridiculous. Welcome to the world. People with unique gifts are treated differently than everyone else. These are not "most kids." This is America. This is a capitalist society. The exceptional get paid. These guys make MILLIONS for the universities from merchandise, television rights, alumni donations, notoriety, commercials. You think making a crappy $20,000 a year in tuition compensation is enough? What a joke. Get over it!!!! If you really feel as strongly as you seem to what if colleges could only make as much money on athletics as it took to cover athletes tuition. They shouldn't be able to PROFIT from other people when their workforce has no ability to negotiate their compensation. If this was a non profit situation I could see and would agree 100% with your point. Super models get paid millions because they had the genetic fortune of being hot. It is what it is! The funny thing is I don't feel strongly about it. You obviously care 100 times more about this issue then I do. I am just stating my opinion to the topic discussion. I am not trying to argue with you or start a war of words. I promise you my blood pressure hasn't risen at all. I feel that life is full of unfair things. In that same life people have options. You have the option of helping those universities make millions or you have the option of not helping. I had the option of working at McDonalds. I felt like I was worth more than minimum wage. So I didn't work at McDonalds. I don't know all the details on this. A few years ago here in LV there was a kid who didn't want to play collage basketball. He felt like he should get paid. He went overseas instead and got paid. He had that option. Just my opinion. I understand yours.
billsfaninvgs Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Just out of curiosity what collage team do u like?
The Senator Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 No athletic scholarships nor other shenanigans in the Ivy League GO BIG RED!!!!
PDaDdy Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) That's right. Nope. Feel free in finding the law that states schools and universities MUST participate in the NCAA. Good luck in finding it. Did you know every school in the SEC, except for Kentucky, has a hockey team? Don't believe me? Try this link: Linky Further, did you know these hockey teams do NOT participate in the NCAA? The association controlling these teams is the ACHA If colleges don't have to participate in the NCAA what benefit is there for them to be a member? You don't give up something for nothing and handcuff your ability to draw the best talent. ##### Just did some reading. It is basically a de facto monopoly in that it is the only game in town. You can not be a member if you don't want to play against other NCAA teams in NCAA bowl games and tournaments which would be the death of any large college program. You are correct on a technicality you don't have to belong but in spirit you are oh so wrong. Shall we skip the debate about NCAA membership being "optional" and focus on the fact that this organization ensures that its workforce is wage limited to the tuition of the particular college that they attend! That is NOT the American way of our founding fathers my friend. If you believe that you and a portion of America has lost it's way. It is the way of greedy businessmen who only care about screwing over the poor and driving down labor costs whether it is ethical or not. Legal? Yes, for now. Unless you never made it out of grade school you know the wealthy make the rules. Can you say "conflict of interest"? Edited June 28, 2011 by PDaDdy
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