RT Talk:

[thewildrabbit]

I would argue the selections of Wood and Levitre were borne out of necessity in 2009. Going into the draft that season, Buffalo had already cut Dockery, forcing Butler to RT when they brilliantly decided Langston Walker could play LT after Peters was dealt. They had nothing at G to begin with and were forced to find immediate starters via the draft.

 

To say they only have so many picks is absurd. You never have enough picks when you're constantly changing schemes designed by sub-par coaches.

Good points.

 

From my perspective I would argue that when Jauron watched as the Jets NT Kris Jenkins was triple teamed by the Bills 2 guards and center and he still made it to the QB ... that one play finally had the impact to open Jauron's eyes to drafting some interior line help.JMO The world watched that play on TV and Phill Simms was announcing and made comments about that play. Its been rough on the Bills interior linemen with Jenkins and Vince Wilfork in the division.

 

Although the Bills now have 2 decent young guards in Wood and Levitre they are still lacking a dominate center the likes of Kent Hull, a tight end like Pete M, a LT like Will Wolford. Nobody in this franchise realizes that one or two players isn't enough to make a solid O line, but if you are going to have two pro bowlers it appears that best positions for the highest priority are center and LT. The reason why fans really didn't get the impact of Jason Peters play during his time in Buffalo was because the centers were so dreadful, again JMO.

 

Like I stated earlier, until this team hires someone that understands to build a strong team you first need a strong foundation, and that starts with the line. The NY Jets did it that way with a center Nick Mangold, and LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson, they have had one of the best lines and running attacks in the NFL since they drafted those two. You would think that GM's & head coaches getting paid millions of dollars to do their jobs would understand this stuff....

[Pilsner]

I am not pinpointing any board posters but it just drives me nuts about the draft complaints and not looking at it from a common sense point of view. WE ONLY HAVE SO MANY PICKS......in the draft before last Buddy Nix said as much. not flashy....but its needed.

 

I know I feel the same way John. Drives me crazy as well.

[LynchMob23]

I'm not going to start a whole new post; I'll just hijack my own post...

 

Did the Bills play a Man Blocking Scheme (MBS) last year and intend to play an MBS this year? I'm especially interested because we're going to do something with each team's answer at DraftTek this year.

 

Or is it more hybrid? Zone Blocking Scheme (ZBS)? a combination of schemes? Or, is it a more exotic scheme?

The Bills (and most teams) use a hybrid Astro. Based on the play/opponent. They are particularly fond of the inside zone (see the Eric Wood game highlighted on BB.com) and the G-pull/power G/whatever a team calls it, with Levitre or Wood pulling to clear around the second man as the back goes upfield.

 

In the pass game, it would depend on the protection called. In some cases, like with the Pats OL, one side may be Zone and another man and in others it's BOB (Big on Big) man it all the way.

 

A lot of what Fitz is doing with the center is telling the line in pass pro who the "Mike" is. Because if it's a five step where the first read is say top right to middle of field, he'll want protection to ensure:

 

1-He's upright

2-His line of sight is unobscured and

3-The back knows who his pickup cues are going to be from.

Edited July 2, 2011 by LynchMob23

[spartacus]

Hangartner is who I was thinking of. Smart guy, durable. Please don't misinterpret -- I'm not suggesting the Bills have 4/5 of an All-Pro line in place. I just believe there is room for optimism now that Bell and Wood are healthy and able to get stronger, Levitre appears to be legit, and Hangartner is a reliable vet.

 

you know what you get with Hangartner

 

 

He will consistently get thrown back in the QBs lap- whether he lines up at C or RG

 

As a backup C he is filling the role he is capable of - no more, nor less

 

 

[spartacus]

I am not pinpointing any board posters but it just drives me nuts about the draft complaints and not looking at it from a common sense point of view. WE ONLY HAVE SO MANY PICKS......in the draft before last Buddy Nix said as much....in this draft they did a good job aquiring even more picks....we picked at the beginning of every round....and we look like we had a solid defensive draft. Hey guys....its not flashy....but its needed. We addressed every area of weakness on the D line.

 

 

The Offense is young.....they still have some pieces to get. I think the fact that we got that crappy RT from the raiders last year and not much else in free agency left a bad taste in peoples mouths but people gotta understand..last year was a EVALUATION year....buddy needed to see what we actually have on the team.....now he knows.

It's probably a good thing the Bills will not spend much on free agent because they are absolutely inept at talent evaluation.

 

 

When Buddy spends big bucks on "talent" like Cornell Green - you can see why he would prefer to sleep thru the free agency signing period.

 

Don't expect any talent to be added in free agency - Buddy brought in a boatload of scrubs lasts year who will magically be starting caliber after the lockout.

 

The Bills have ignored the OL for 15 years - nothing indicates that it will change anytime soon

 

 

 

 

[Sisyphean Bills]

It's probably a good thing the Bills will not spend much on free agent because they are absolutely inept at talent evaluation.

 

When Buddy spends big bucks on "talent" like Cornell Green - you can see why he would prefer to sleep thru the free agency signing period.

 

Don't expect any talent to be added in free agency - Buddy brought in a boatload of scrubs lasts year who will magically be starting caliber after the lockout.

 

The Bills have ignored the OL for 15 years - nothing indicates that it will change anytime soon

That's the real catch-22 of the "We have to see 'em with our own two eyes in real games before we can know anything" argument used to support expertise here. Every player that the Bills may consider to add to the roster (save maybe San Diego Chargers players from several years back), including draft picks, has never played for the brain trust before. If the scouting is still garbage, the results are still going to be garbage. Thankfully, the "Tom Modrak cannot be fired/is doing a special job" argument was shown the myth door.

[thewildrabbit]

I am not pinpointing any board posters but it just drives me nuts about the draft complaints and not looking at it from a common sense point of view. WE ONLY HAVE SO MANY PICKS......in the draft before last Buddy Nix said as much....in this draft they did a good job aquiring even more picks....we picked at the beginning of every round....and we look like we had a solid defensive draft. Hey guys....its not flashy....but its needed. We addressed every area of weakness on the D line.

 

 

The Offense is young.....they still have some pieces to get. I think the fact that we got that crappy RT from the raiders last year and not much else in free agency left a bad taste in peoples mouths but people gotta understand..last year was a EVALUATION year....buddy needed to see what we actually have on the team.....now he knows.

Two drafts and still no real help for the line. The team drafted a RB with the first pick under Nix / Gailey instead of a TE or O linemen, how has that worked out so far? They drafted a btw linemen again this year, another developmental player when they need immediate help at RT, just like last year. It looks like they will plug in another 4 guys at RT this year also.

 

 

No offense but that bolded part is about the most moronic statement I think I've ever read. The problem is I keep reading in post after post from fans giving an excuse regarding the crappy coaches and GM currently running this team... are they really so lame that they need a season to evaluate players? Is that why the team brought in Cornell Green and he played so poorly? But jeez, they didn't give him the year he needed!

 

Seriously snafu, any decent coach / GM should be able to watch a few games of tape on a player and be able to evaluate / grade him properly, anything beyond that is an excuse. How can they be expected to grade any college player they want to draft? OH wait! This might be the exact reason why this team has stunk so bad for so long. They need to draft a player and then watch them play in the NFL for a year and THEN evaluate them.

 

C'mon guys, stop making excuses for the lamoids this owner hired again. Jauron and his staff of clowns looks better then this staff right now.

[Nanker]

One thing's for certain. Our OL is not improving due to the coaching and training they're receiving this off season.

They stand no chance of improving until this lockout is behind us. This situation is more detrimental to our line than to clubs with more entrenched personnel.

[Astrobot]

The Bills (and most teams) use a hybrid Astro. Based on the play/opponent. They are particularly fond of the inside zone (see the Eric Wood game highlighted on BB.com) and the G-pull/power G/whatever a team calls it, with Levitre or Wood pulling to clear around the second man as the back goes upfield.

 

In the pass game, it would depend on the protection called. In some cases, like with the Pats OL, one side may be Zone and another man and in others it's BOB (Big on Big) man it all the way.

 

A lot of what Fitz is doing with the center is telling the line in pass pro who the "Mike" is. Because if it's a five step where the first read is say top right to middle of field, he'll want protection to ensure:

 

1-He's upright

2-His line of sight is unobscured and

3-The back knows who his pickup cues are going to be from.

Thanks, LynchMob!

[Bill from NYC]

C'mon guys, stop making excuses for the lamoids this owner hired again. Jauron and his staff of clowns looks better then this staff right now.

 

I understand your complaints, but the above is simply NOT TRUE.

In fact, it is miles from being true. The 2006 draft and free agent signings are enough to tell you each and every thing you need to know about Levy/Jauron.

Those two crippled this franchise. They wasted great draft picks and spent tens of millions of dollars on free agents who sucked.

 

If Nix/Gailey are total idiots (which I do not believe), this would qualify them as being 10x better than Levy/Jauron. They were utter disasters; it's beyond words how horrible they were at each and every aspect of running an NFL franchise.

 

And btw, I hated the Spiller pick as much as any Bills fan in America. I am NOT giving Nix/Gailey a clean slate. I also see your point about not drafting blockers. You are right!

 

But, Levy/Jauron, as much as some do not want to hear it, were in the Rich Kotite category of losers. Sad but true.

[John from Riverside]

When Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey were first hired both men stated that the O line was a "priority" in their first draft, that "priority" didn't manifest itself until round 5, which is basically an after thought, and a developmental player.

 

CJ Spiller took that priority, how much did he contribute to the running game last year? The Bills already had enough kick returners, they didn't need to waste a first round pick on one. Now think what would have happened if the Bills had drafted a decent RT with the #1, an entirely different season. Even Jauron was smart enough to draft 2 guards in rounds 1& 2, which is kind of lame when you think Gailey is supposed to be the offensive minded HC

 

 

 

Sorry I can't share your rosy optimistic view as I think this team has already wasted another 2 years on an over the hill GM & HC as there is an abundance of evidence to prove this. I can only wonder how much longer it will take to get these two incompetents replaced by people that know what they are doing! I want the Bills to win as much as the next guy, but I simply can't support 2 men I know are inept. They both might be really great people and real nice guys, but you know what they say about "nice guys'

 

 

This is just ridiculous......

 

There is more then one pick in the draft.....and Buddy Nix has been in charge of exactly TWO DRAFTS.......

 

In the first draft they were moving to a 3-4 defense even though they knew they didn't have the pieces they needed to make it work.....and they had a 1st round running back who was one strike away from being gone for the SEASON who DID NOT WANT TO PLAY here.....so what did he do? If anything what Buddy Nix is not flashy....he simply addresses needs......they went with what they felt was the best player in the draft with their 1st rounder (which by the way may still end up being the right pick) then they started addresses defensive 3-4 needs in Troupe and Carrington then some late round linebackers

 

OK.....now onto draft number 2. Another defensive draft. Still needed and will probably go a long way to shore up that side of the ball.......but Nix was very smart and used our crappy ranking last year to get the best cut guys (which often are cut because of numbers games)

 

I thought it was interesting that you left several of Jim Kelly's linemen off your list who were actually found in the later rounds like Kent Hull and House Ballard....who were JUST as huge for that O line as Wilford.

 

Bottom line..only so many picks....and a lot of holes. I honestly dont think Nix has wasted ONE pick yet.....unless he had anything to do with the Aaron Maybin debocle.

[John from Riverside]

Two drafts and still no real help for the line. The team drafted a RB with the first pick under Nix / Gailey instead of a TE or O linemen, how has that worked out so far? They drafted a btw linemen again this year, another developmental player when they need immediate help at RT, just like last year. It looks like they will plug in another 4 guys at RT this year also.

 

 

No offense but that bolded part is about the most moronic statement I think I've ever read. The problem is I keep reading in post after post from fans giving an excuse regarding the crappy coaches and GM currently running this team... are they really so lame that they need a season to evaluate players? Is that why the team brought in Cornell Green and he played so poorly? But jeez, they didn't give him the year he needed!

 

Seriously snafu, any decent coach / GM should be able to watch a few games of tape on a player and be able to evaluate / grade him properly, anything beyond that is an excuse. How can they be expected to grade any college player they want to draft? OH wait! This might be the exact reason why this team has stunk so bad for so long. They need to draft a player and then watch them play in the NFL for a year and THEN evaluate them.

 

C'mon guys, stop making excuses for the lamoids this owner hired again. Jauron and his staff of clowns looks better then this staff right now.

 

 

You are not understanding what I mean when I say it was an evaluation year......

 

The problem with this team is that they have been going through the past 10 years doing just well enough to place out of the blue chip area of draft picks and just bad enough to be sitting at home come playoff time.

 

It is my belief that

 

a. Buddy was told to biuld this team through the draft as we were not going to be buying the top free agents

 

and

 

b. Improve our draft selection

 

Now....that isnt a popular opinion around here.....but the fact is.....we needed to BOTTOM OUT in order to clear out the trash and get some players we could biuld a solid foundation around.

 

You think they couldn't watch some video and see what they had on the team? Is that your question? Of course they could....but they were seeing what they had in their veterans and making sure that the young guys knew starting positions were not just going to be handed to them. Then...first year is over....out goes Stroud (for instance) they wanted to see what they had in Whitner......in Edwards......you know.....evaluation.

 

Judge them on what they do this year.....TWO of those starting offensive linemen couldn't even practice during the week......we haven't even gotten past free agency yet for this year. They have made solid sound moves in the draft and bring in Dave Wanstaddt

[thewildrabbit]

This is just ridiculous......

 

There is more then one pick in the draft.....and Buddy Nix has been in charge of exactly TWO DRAFTS.......

 

In the first draft they were moving to a 3-4 defense even though they knew they didn't have the pieces they needed to make it work.....and they had a 1st round running back who was one strike away from being gone for the SEASON who DID NOT WANT TO PLAY here.....so what did he do? If anything what Buddy Nix is not flashy....he simply addresses needs......they went with what they felt was the best player in the draft with their 1st rounder (which by the way may still end up being the right pick) then they started addresses defensive 3-4 needs in Troupe and Carrington then some late round linebackers

 

OK.....now onto draft number 2. Another defensive draft. Still needed and will probably go a long way to shore up that side of the ball.......but Nix was very smart and used our crappy ranking last year to get the best cut guys (which often are cut because of numbers games)

 

I thought it was interesting that you left several of Jim Kelly's linemen off your list who were actually found in the later rounds like Kent Hull and House Ballard....who were JUST as huge for that O line as Wilford.

 

Bottom line..only so many picks....and a lot of holes. I honestly dont think Nix has wasted ONE pick yet.....unless he had anything to do with the Aaron Maybin debocle.

You are right, it is ridiculous... they way some fans defend this current regime. In case you guys missed it.... the team took 2 steps backwards and went 4-12. If not for Ryan Fitzpatrick playing great in some games.... the season would have been a total joke. I can recall 3 years ago some fan posing a 30+ page thread defending Dick Jauron and how the team would make the playoffs under him....

 

TWO DRAFTS.... AND NOT ONE DEFENSIVE PLAYER STARTED FROM THAT FIRST DRAFT! on a horribly bad 4-12 team. Do they need another year to evaluate those players? RB-DT-DE-WR-OT-DE-DE-QB-OT they drafted 4 guys for the D line and none could make the starting lineup? that 7th round OT was cut in preseason and Wang the 5th rounder never saw the field despite the team desperately needing help at RT. Not one freaking player showed anything from that draft so far....CJ Spiller has a reserved seat on the bench right next to Aaron Maybin!

 

If Tom Modrak was the problem and Nix is supposedly better at judging player talent then how in the hell does he sign Cornell Green, and then how does Chan Gailey and his staff start him....then how do they not have an adequate back up?

 

 

The thing is I don't need 4-5 years to see ineptitude, I saw enough of it in the first year. and not just from assistant coaches but Gailey and Nix as well. You guys are never going to see any babies from these two meat-heads

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS I didn't edit my post and I did mention Kent Hull

 

PPS Bill, from what I've seen so far this staff is way worse the Jauron / Levy, just wait and you will see

[John from Riverside]

You totally missed the point of my post but this is does not suprise me.

[reddogblitz]

Maybe we should consider Sean Locklear from Seattle at RG. He was the starter on that Super Bowl team a few years back.

[thewildrabbit]

You totally missed the point of my post but this is does not suprise me.

I didn't miss any point, just keep defending them.

 

Was the switch to a 3-4 more important then the RT position or building the line....apparently. That is exactly what is wrong with these two.

 

With all those defensive picks to bolster the new 3-4 where is the stud OLB? Ohhh the injured guy from SD is supposed to regain his pro bowl form and lead the NFL in sacks, I'm not holding my breath.

 

You think Nix has yet to make a bad pick in the draft, I think the ONLY one I know will be a starter and make an impact is Marcel Darius, and he fell into their laps.

 

The thing is I have yet to see any of his draft picks make an impact, I kinda like to actually see some real production before I judge, I'm funny that way.

[Bill from NYC]

PPS Bill, from what I've seen so far this staff is way worse the Jauron / Levy, just wait and you will see

 

Gailey is a very good offensive mind. He is a smart man and like him or not, so is his quarterback.

Jauron is a defensive backs coach who is good at teaching a painfully bad defense to his players. One that had Aaron Schobel covering receivers when he was the only pass rusher on the team. One that went backwards and never attacked and was built upon defensive backs (that weren't all that).

 

As for Nix, please go to drafthistory.com and tell me how he could be any worse than Levy/Jauron.

 

Anyway, I hope that I'm right, but feel very safe in thinking that Nix/Gailey couldn't be as bad as those two. It doesn't seem possible.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Kyle Calloway wasn't an impactful draft pick by any definition. Not to mention that he was taken in the Modrak Wheelhouse area of the draft.

 

Seriously, he was a 7th rounder. On the other hand, his (total lack of) success belies the claim that the Nix Era hasn't wasted a single draft pick.

[thewildrabbit]

Gailey is a very good offensive mind. He is a smart man and like him or not, so is his quarterback.

Jauron is a defensive backs coach who is good at teaching a painfully bad defense to his players. One that had Aaron Schobel covering receivers when he was the only pass rusher on the team. One that went backwards and never attacked and was built upon defensive backs (that weren't all that).

 

As for Nix, please go to drafthistory.com and tell me how he could be any worse than Levy/Jauron.

 

Anyway, I hope that I'm right, but feel very safe in thinking that Nix/Gailey couldn't be as bad as those two. It doesn't seem possible.

Bill, I know you like to throw Levy under the bus, i just don't see him being the bigger problem. Although he did hire Dick Jauron as HC, and that was his fatal flaw.

 

Also, lets not forget that Marv was only going by what the scouts told him was a good player, he no longer had Bill Polian to direct him to the proper talent. Don't forget that Marv made public on how he planned to run the draft, he stated it was a consensus between the scouts- Jauron and himself with Jauron having the last word and ultimate final say. because of this trust that Marv put in Jauron I think RW also picked up on that and let him become the DeFacto GM after Marv retired. This was the undoing of this team, letting Jauron run the draft, hire assistant coaches and judge what players to keep and which to let go. (Jim Leonard) I think he was also the reason the player strength and conditioning training went to hell, it was like club med and not a pro football team.

 

 

The problem I have with Chan Gailey is that he failed badly as OC in KC 2-14, his QB looked good running the pistol offense, but that was mostly garbage yards when the opposing team had the lead and went they into a prevent defense. Kinda the same thing happened in Buffalo last year in a few games. Like Jauron, Gailey seems to be proficient in only one aspect, and that is the passing offense. The running game, the defense, special teams all went downhill under Gailey.

 

Right now I question this head coaches judgement on O linemen, RB's, and his choices for his assistants. Its exactly like Jauron where he is afraid to hire a top assistants because they may eventually steal his job

 

Not building the O line might just get Fitz killed this year, he may turn into another shell shocked version of JP-TE. With no power running game it will all be on the QB's shoulders again this season.

 

To many posters here it didn't seem possible for this new regime to field a team that was worse then Dick Jaurons teams, but it happened!

[Sisyphean Bills]

Not building the O line might just get Fitz killed this year, he may turn into another shell shocked version of JP-TE.

And there is the elephant in the room. If Fitzpatrick goes down, the master's plan is, what, Levi Brown?