TPS Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 So anyone betting on a continued rise in oil prices runs the risk that Thursday’s release is just the first of many aimed at lowering prices. Removing those speculators from the market would eliminate the premium paid to cover the profits generated by investors, said Gheit. “I want all the gamblers to lose everything they own,” he said. “We're paying for it when these guys are betting with someone else's money. And the consumers are the ones losing money." Go IEA!
....lybob Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Go IEA! I would prefer less market manipulation rather than dueling market manipulation but reaction rather than foresight seems the norm- btw I just watched one of the few economists who makes sense to me Steve Keen he is Australian and wrote Debunking economics ever hear of him.
Magox Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Dont agree with it, and my guess is that this won´t affect oil prices that much at all over the course of the year.
TPS Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 I would prefer less market manipulation rather than dueling market manipulation but reaction rather than foresight seems the norm- btw I just watched one of the few economists who makes sense to me Steve Keen he is Australian and wrote Debunking economics ever hear of him. Yes, we are both "Minskyites." Our economics are heavily influenced by the late Hyman Minsky. He's one of a dozen or so who predicted the crash. Where'd you see him?
....lybob Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Yes, we are both "Minskyites." Our economics are heavily influenced by the late Hyman Minsky. He's one of a dozen or so who predicted the crash. Where'd you see him? On the Keiser Report (I'm sure I'll get grief for that) then I googled him. I'm thinking of getting his book "Debunking Economics" have you read it, is it any good.
/dev/null Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Dont agree with it, and my guess is that this won´t affect oil prices that much at all over the course of the year. Another example of Obama "leading from behind". Price of oil had been in decline the last couple of weeks. As the price of gas declines (at a slower pace) with the price of oil, the DNC Spin Machine will point to this as the Administration tackling high gas prices. Gutsy Call®!
pBills Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Dont agree with it, and my guess is that this won´t affect oil prices that much at all over the course of the year. Well the biggest thing is that it's only 60 million... could have made a bigger statement.
TPS Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 On the Keiser Report (I'm sure I'll get grief for that) then I googled him. I'm thinking of getting his book "Debunking Economics" have you read it, is it any good. Haven't read it. Saw there's a new edition coming out, so i'll wait. I doubt that there will be much I haven't seen though. Might be a good resource for my classes.
Magox Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Well the biggest thing is that it's only 60 million... could have made a bigger statement. It´s politics 101, the SPR is for emergencies/supply disruptions, this is now the third time in history that the SPR has been tapped, once from the IRan oil embargo, Katrina and now this... You wanna know who said this? I do not believe that we should use the strategic oil reserves at this point. I have said and, in fact, supported a congressional resolution that said that we should suspend putting more oil into the strategic oil reserve, but the strategic oil reserve, I think, has to be reserved for a genuine emergency. You have a situation, let’s say, where there was a major oil facility in Saudi Arabia that was destroyed as a consequence of terrorist acts, and you suddenly had huge amounts of oil taken out of the world market, we wouldn’t just be seeing $4-a-gallon oil. We could see a situation where entire sectors of the country had no oil to function at all. And that’s what the strategic oil reserve has to be for. Yeah, thát´s right, the one who was against it before he was for it. Oh how convenient, my my my how things change. Good one Obama. You know what? I take that back, it is an emergency, his presidency is in crisis mode, the stimulus was a failure, indepenents have bailed on him, the economy is crappy as hell, no one likes his insane insurance bill, people are as pessimistic about the U.Ss future as ever etc. etc etc. yeah so i get it, they are panicking up their in the oval office. This is all about trying to get their horrible polling numbers out of the dumps. Too bad that they dont have a clue how the oil markets work. ALl this will do is have a temporary effect on the markets and flush out some of the speculators. The price of crude dropped to $90 earlier this week, popped up to $95 and now we are at $91. Where is it gonna go in the short-term? I have no clue, but I am almost certain that this will have a negligible effect on the price of crude through out the year. As I´ve told many people, including TPS, this is a global market, which is why when people point to the record high CUshing oil supplies, I tell them ¨So¨ Markets dont care about cushing because the U.S isn´t where demand growth comes from, it comes from China, India etc. in other words wherever there is growth. The world has a demand of roughly 90Million barrels, so what do the geniuses do over here to try to solve this problem? they tap into our EMERGENCY oil reserves, which now btw marks the first time in US history that a sitting president decided to tap into the market to manipulate prices, and they decide to flood 60 million more barrels in a US market that is already sitting with lots of supplies. US supplies isnt the problem.... Only a person who doesnt have an understanding of the oil markets would believe this is a good idea. Edited June 24, 2011 by Magox
IDBillzFan Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 I take that back, it is an emergency, his presidency is in crisis mode, the stimulus was a failure, indepenents have bailed on him, the economy is crappy as hell, no one likes his insane insurance bill, people are as pessimistic about the U.Ss future as ever etc. etc etc. yeah so i get it, they are panicking up their in the oval office. This is all about trying to get their horrible polling numbers out of the dumps. [/thread]
TPS Posted June 24, 2011 Author Posted June 24, 2011 This is all about trying to get their horrible polling numbers out of the dumps. Too bad that they dont have a clue how the oil markets work. ALl this will do is have a temporary effect on the markets and flush out some of the speculators. The price of crude dropped to $90 earlier this week, popped up to $95 and now we are at $91. Where is it gonna go in the short-term? I have no clue, but I am almost certain that this will have a negligible effect on the price of crude through out the year. As I´ve told many people, including TPS, this is a global market, which is why when people point to the record high CUshing oil supplies, I tell them ¨So¨ Markets dont care about cushing because the U.S isn´t where demand growth comes from, it comes from China, India etc. in other words wherever there is growth. The world has a demand of roughly 90Million barrels, so what do the geniuses do over here to try to solve this problem? they tap into our EMERGENCY oil reserves, which now btw marks the first time in US history that a sitting president decided to tap into the market to manipulate prices, and they decide to flood 60 million more barrels in a US market that is already sitting with lots of supplies. US supplies isnt the problem.... Only a person who doesnt have an understanding of the oil markets would believe this is a good idea. As the article pointed out, it's a message to speculators; it's not about US supply. In a market dominated by investment flows that are biased long, the IEA, acting like a central bank, is saying don't bet against us. So call me ignorant.
....lybob Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Haven't read it. Saw there's a new edition coming out, so i'll wait. I doubt that there will be much I haven't seen though. Might be a good resource for my classes. Steve Keen talking to an engineer, dead on in my opinion- mainly because we have a similar world view, God I love the internet.
Magox Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 As the article pointed out, it's a message to speculators; it's not about US supply. In a market dominated by investment flows that are biased long, the IEA, acting like a central bank, is saying don't bet against us. So call me ignorant. Wont make much of a difference.
....lybob Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Wont make much of a difference. what about the PIIGS, Japan, UK, and US imploding and China slowing down, think that will make a difference. Edited June 24, 2011 by ....lybob
Magox Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 what about the PIIGS, Japan, UK, and US imploding and China slowing down, think that will make a difference. Yes, I believe that would make a difference.
birdog1960 Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Yes, I believe that would make a difference. this is tough one...on one hand it's encouraging to see the IEA take on the serious issue of speculators gone wild. on the other, will it really work? also, is there any precedent for international, orchestrated, overt attempts at market manipulation of commodities, especially the most valuable commodity? (ok- i guess opec might qualify but other than that). this speaks to me of desperation. i knew it was bad but not imminently disastrous...and i doesn't help my opinion of this move that i hold a couple energy stocks another concern is the potential for insider profiteering. there must be many people in many govt's with advance knowledge of this and possible future moves. did they just move the trading profits from speculators to govt insiders? Edited June 24, 2011 by birdog1960
Doc Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Yep, this is a political move to bump-up the approval rating. But hopefully it will crush the speculators as well.
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Sure hope this works. Would be great to see a robust recovery pick up steam heading into and through 2012.
Nanker Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Sure hope this works. Would be great to see a robust recovery pick up steam heading into and through 2012. spit coffee on my screen after reading that. Good one Dave, good one! The U.S. Federal Reserve this week cut its forecasts for growth and employment this year and next.
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