New LA Team could come Thru Buffalo

[K-9]

Horsecrap, where do you guys get this stuff from. I recall that era and nobody was saying RW was cheap for hiring Polian. Nobody knew who he was until the media informed them that it was Polian who had a major influence in Bruce Smiths first contract and RW was applauded for promoting him

 

I think you make crap up as you go to fit whatever argument your into, provide us a link to this BS about anyone, stating anything, about RW being cheap when he hired Polian!

 

 

wow, grasping at straws are we.... FYI Bill Polian was hired away from Carolina by the Colts and promoted to GM- President. He didn't wear out his welcome

 

I can imagine you high on crack if you think Bill Polian would have brought this franchise to its knees any worse then this owner has. Your credibility just went into the ceramic convenience with this post! Now I can put you right up there with "paintmyhouse" and "alphad!ck"

 

Many of us knew who Polian was the day he was hired to handle pro personnel. I actually new of him for the work he did in Montreal.

 

I can't help it if you have poor recollection of when Polian was promoted to GM. The Bills were coming off of consecutive 2-14 seasons. Polian was on board for the second of those seasons. Many of the fans were clamoring for a complete housecleaning and RW took a fair amount of criticism when he made the decision to replace Bledsoe with the de facto GM tandem of Polian and Norm Pollom. Just because there isn't a link of an article about fans being mad doesn't make it untrue. Many people were pissed at Polian for the Bennett trade as well but I can't link articles to that either. The 24/7 news cycle and cyber media communities didn't exist back then. So what? Maybe you should ask some of the old media members what they recall of the times as well.

 

As far as making up crap to suit my argument that's not been my style in the nearly 15 years I've been a member of this community but suit yourself. I would point out that YOU pulled the completely theoretical idea out of your ass that if Polian had stayed around we would have had Peyton Manning. I simply pointed out what would of had to occur for that to have happened. Finishing with the worst record in football is what it would have taken to get Manning. Perhaps you missed that. Or perhaps you didn't understand your own post in the first place.

 

Anyway you wanted to turn a comparison of two of RW's inside hires into something else entirely. That's to suit your agenda. You're very much like many of the negative Nancies around at the time of Polian's hire.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[spartacus]

The idea that the Colts tanked the whole season to get Manning (or quite frankly any first round pick is ludicrous. Are you really offering a conspiracy theory which:

 

A. Has to involve dozens (at least) of people conspiring together to try to lose without anyone finding out.

B. Is a conspiracy that needs more people involved to have much chance of success or if fewer people are in on it this means they are screwing even more people who are trying hard to win.

C. They launch this significant plot based on the idea of getting one player (or even two if you say either Manning or Leaf but the downside is in reality that you might have tanked a whole season to get Ryan Leaf.

D. Indy did not have the first pick overall that season and you have tanked the season and run the risk that someone trades above you and takes Manning.

E. Tanking a season clearly has implications beyond that one season as though Manning turned out to be great he led his 3-13 team that drafted him to a 3-13 record.

 

Tanking a season for one player is simply a stupid strategy which depends upon the silence and co-operation of too many people for a speculative benefit.

F. Even at that point the facts indicated against a first round QB choice delivering the team which drafted him an SB win as no first round choice since Aikman a decade earlier had led the team which drafted him to an SB win.

 

so the Buddy plan to tank last season to get better picks was not a good idea?

 

because if they did not tank the season on purpose, these guys are totally incompetent

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hplarrm]

so the Buddy plan to tank last season to get better picks was not a good idea?

 

because if they did not tank the season on purpose, these guys are totally incompetent

I once used to argue to a friend of mine that after a series of downright stupid snafus by the league (I think the refs blowing the coinflip in one OT game was part of the series of debacles) that clearly the game was fixed.

 

She then made a point which I could not argue against.

 

If it were fixed, wouldn't you make it more interesting.

 

I had no riposte.

 

If Nix had in fact tanked the season, they could do a far better job of thanking quite easily.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I once used to argue to a friend of mine that after a series of downright stupid snafus by the league (I think the refs blowing the coinflip in one OT game was part of the series of debacles) that clearly the game was fixed.

 

She then made a point which I could not argue against.

 

If it were fixed, wouldn't you make it more interesting.

 

I had no riposte.

 

If Nix had in fact tanked the season, they could do a far better job of thanking quite easily.

How many you have, Hp?

 

 

[DE Bills Fan]

The NFL does not give a rats ass about where they are geographically. They only care about where they are economically.

The bolded part is excellent advice for everyone. There is nothing to gain from worrying about things 100% outside of your control.

You are totally right Code Monkey. All that matters is revenues and profits and Buffalo will not be able to compete once Ralph is gone. The team will be auctioned by Sotheby's to the highest bidder. Sad, but true!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hplarrm]

How many you have, Hp?

 

 

None,

 

After years of training and experience in my younger days, I find that my body (particularly on Friday and Saturday nights seems to naturally produce alcohol.

 

I found this out when one evening (night) I was winding down the road minding my own business (probably coming back from a church if it was Sunday, synagogue if it was a Saturday, or mosque if it was a Friday and I got pulled over. Not satisfied with my ability to walk heel to toe, do backflips, or count backwards from 100 subtracting by seven {the proper reaction is momentary confusion and non-aggressive resistance but then recognize that few do this perfectly so do not get flustered but keep going when you make a mistake).

 

At any rate, not satisfied with my good enough performance the occifer did not believe my story that I was actually coming back from a religious service (sometimes we feel the spirit and the sessions last until 3am). At any rate he gave me a scienterrifc breathylyzher and despite the fact I had not imbibed (I even passed on the communion drink) I did register a .7.

 

Fortunately this was .1 below the legal limit and I was allowed to go on my way.

 

However, this was science based proof (and I do mean proof) positive that I don't have to have any and my bloodstream simply produces alcohol.

[Mr. WEO]

I got your "a QB like Manning" covered with Polian's inability to draft a QB without having the first overall pick. And as for "talking Kelly into playing for the Bills," Kelly had no choice since the Bills owned his rights for several years.

 

I got a laugh out of "winning SB's." His teams are 1-5 in the big game, and the one won was thanks to playing a joke of a team in the Bears who lost their best player (Harris). Maybe if he wasn't giving out huge deals to stars like Kelso and Wright, the Bills could have won at least 1 of those 4 SB's.

What on earth does this mean? The Bills needed more money to win a SB? They didn't have enough talent?

 

Polian assembled great teams in Buff and U+Indy. unfortunately, he couldn't find an adequate HC for either team. So much squandered talent.

[thewildrabbit]

so the Buddy plan to tank last season to get better picks was not a good idea?

 

because if they did not tank the season on purpose, these guys are totally incompetent

 

They didn't, and they are!

 

What most of the fans posting here don't get is how much Ryan Fitzpatrick saved both Nix and Gailey from looking totally inept, and the team duplicating the Detroit Lions for an 0-16 season with no wins

 

The team went from mediocre to bad and not many really saw that fact, my only question is....how much longer?

[Doc]

What on earth does this mean? The Bills needed more money to win a SB? They didn't have enough talent?

 

Polian assembled great teams in Buff and U+Indy. unfortunately, he couldn't find an adequate HC for either team. So much squandered talent.

It means what it means. They were overpaid and undertalented. And I agree that Levy a championship-winning HC (I'd be inclined to agree with you about Dungy). Then again, perhaps if the Bills had encountered a creampuff like the Bears in the SB, they'd have won one even under Levy.

[thewildrabbit]

It means what it means. They were overpaid and undertalented. And I agree that Levy a championship-winning HC (I'd be inclined to agree with you about Dungy). Then again, perhaps if the Bills had encountered a creampuff like the Bears in the SB, they'd have won one even under Levy.

 

 

That ""creampuff" team you keep referring to went 13-3 in the NFC in 2006, they were 2nd in the NFL in scoring and 3rd in points allowed. That teams fatal flaw was at QB with Rex Grossmann, who really choked in the biggest game of his career. That creampuff team beat the Buffalo Bills 40-7 that year.

It also just so happens that Payton Manning can tear apart a Tampa 2 defense as he did to Chicago in 2004 to the tune of 41-14

 

I get a kick out of you two downplaying a pair of great head coaches that took their teams to the playoffs year after year, all because one only won a single SB, while the other made it to 4 straight and never won a SB. Plus one already has a bust in Canton. I'd sure as heck take either man as head coach over any of the clowns that RW has hired this last decade

Edited June 26, 2011 by Harvey lives

[It's in My Blood]

Can the Mods please just make a thread for all rumors/publications involving the bills to LA.

[Doc]

That ""creampuff" team you keep referring to went 13-3 in the NFC in 2006, they were 2nd in the NFL in scoring and 3rd in points allowed. That teams fatal flaw was at QB with Rex Grossmann, who really choked in the biggest game of his career. That creampuff team beat the Buffalo Bills 40-7 that year.

It also just so happens that Payton Manning can tear apart a Tampa 2 defense as he did to Chicago in 2004 to the tune of 41-14

 

I get a kick out of you two downplaying a pair of great head coaches that took their teams to the playoffs year after year, all because one only won a single SB, while the other made it to 4 straight and never won a SB. Plus one already has a bust in Canton. I'd sure as heck take either man as head coach over any of the clowns that RW has hired this last decade

I don't know. I'd say that having your QB as your fatal flaw is NOT a good thing. Not to mention they lost their best player (Tommy Harris) earlier in the playoffs. As for Levy, he was a good coach who could get you to the playoffs and win there, and keep getting you back to the SB, but couldn't get you over the hump.

[thewildrabbit]

I don't know. I'd say that having your QB as your fatal flaw is NOT a good thing. Not to mention they lost their best player (Tommy Harris) earlier in the playoffs. As for Levy, he was a good coach who could get you to the playoffs and win there, and keep getting you back to the SB, but couldn't get you over the hump.

 

I suppose you would prefer the Bills coaches of the last ten years....

[Mr. WEO]

I suppose you would prefer the Bills coaches of the last ten years....

If the best you can say (twice now) of Levy is that he was better than all of the Bills HC's since him, then I fully agree with you. But so what.

 

But few coaches have ever had the talent he, and to a similar extent St. Tony Dungy, had and came up with so few championship victories.

[Doc]

I suppose you would prefer the Bills coaches of the last ten years....

Actually, I'd prefer the Bills players during the SB era.

[Marv's Neighbor]

LA & the NFL are no match!

 

The NFL is living in the past, and the past couldn't even support the Rams & Raiders.

 

Now the demographics have changed so much that there's little demand for an NFL team in SoCal. The economy couldn't support a team! The "beautiful people" only care about themselves to the exclusion of "team sports." The population is taxed to death! Gas is ALWAYS the highest in the nation because of the taxes, and all the whacky gasoline blends that the environmentalists demand. The SoCal economy is circling the drain because of all the un/underfunded Social Programs. Many residents have either lost their homes to foreclosure or are So "underwater" that they'll likely never be able to recover.

 

There are too many people employed in the "service induistry" and most of them cannot speak, read, or understand English. They make minimum wage and couldn't afford to attend a game, IF they were even interested, which they are not. LA would have more success by making a new stadium a Bull Ring rather than a NFL type facility.

 

I have traveled to LA and San Diego frequently in the past 40 years. The general area is mostly in decline and the changes are difficult to miss. It's getting very much like Europe-no middle class! You either drive a Mercedes/BMW etc or a 84 Chev-not much in between!

[thewildrabbit]

You guys don't get it...It's not just about talent and it never will be just about talent, although it certainly does help to have good-great players... its not all important.

 

CIP, Chuck Knox came into Buffalo at the end of 1977 with Stew Barber as GM, Barber was a complete tool, and responsible for Tom Cousineau for not signing with Buffalo. OJ was still with the team as were remnants of the Electric company O line, all aged and mostly over the hill. Knox realized OJ was done and traded him away.

This man single-handedly reshaped the team the way he wanted, and brought in some older experienced veterans to add leadership to the locker room.Then drafted the players he wanted, and in 3 years had the team in the playoffs. The team improved his very first year, as it usually does under a good coach, unless they have a rookie QB. Anyway, Knox took a QB in Joe Ferguson that with every bad pass he threw... he would hang his head and shake it side to side, and then turned him into a playoff caliber QB!

 

Chuck Knox was a supreme motivator who took a bunch of average players and made them believe that they could be great. He also hired the right assistants to teach / coach the players properly. The nickname they give Knox was "ground chuck" as he would build a good O line and run the ball. Today's game might be more of a passing league but a dominate running game still works well when you don't have a Manning or Brady, something that has escaped every coach the Bills have hired since Marv levy.

 

 

Ralph Wilson knew what he was getting when he hired Knox and was willing to pay top dollar to bring his team back to respectability. His team had been bad since right after 1965 when they won a AFL championship, the Bills had 2 decent seasons in 73-74 where they went 9-5 but still, the Bills were dominated by the Miami dolphins for a decade. That's right, the Bills didn't beat Miami once in the entire decade of the 70's. The Bills were so bad at the end of the 70's that they couldn't even have a preseason game in Buffalo because nobody would attend the games. Wilson was desperate and was finally willing to spend the money it took to hire a top quality head coach.

 

Today's fans, still longing for the days of Bill Polian and Marv Levy continue to flock to the Ralph to watch mediocre / crap team teams in the hopes that the team will at some point be good. While not realizing that the owner keeps hiring men who have just enough talent to keep the team mediocre. Wilson already won a championship, and he clearly doesn't care about winning a super bowl. As long as the stadium is filled and the cash keeps rolling in he is happy, after all what more could a true businessman want then to have a profitable business.

 

 

A good head coach could have had last years Bills team at least back to 9-5 as there was enough talent. Even Buddy Nix thought so when he stated the team is "not that far away". which he retracted after they didn't win a game by week 5. Chan Gailey might be a decent OC, but he stinks as a head coach and if Buddy doesn't figure that out quickly he might be leaving when Chan finally gets the boot.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Just wanted to point out, Harvey…

 

Knox's first 3 seasons with the Bills were 5-11, 7-9, and 11-5.

 

So it took him 3 years to turn it around.

 

You're right. He was an excellent coach… but the talent in Buffalo improved greatly in the time where he was given the reigns to the football operations.

 

My recollection was that Knox was the de facto GM (Barber was Wilson's eyes and ears in Orchard Park) but that Knox eventually fell out of favor with Wilson because the payroll kept increasing.

 

Knox brought in a bunch of veteran players like Isiah Robertson, Phil Villapiano, Conrad Dobler, Sherman White, Frank Lewis, Roosevelt Leaks, Ron Jessie, Lawrence McCutcheon, Lou Piccone, and others who were good pros but cost a little bit more money. Except for the OJ Simpson contract, Wilson was very unaccustomed to having much of a payroll on his football team.

 

Long-time Bills fans will remember Wilson's inability to retain Knox (they couldn't come to terms on a new contract) and his players as one of the times where the accusations that "Ralph is cheap" really seemed to ring true.

 

In summation, Knox was a very good coach who took 3 years to turn the team around as he gradually improved the talent level.

 

After Wilson failed to offer Knox a satisfactory contract, Seattle swooped in and gladly gave Knox the money he was seeking.

 

In Seattle, Knox led the Seahawks to a .590 winning percentage over the next 9 seasons.

[Tcali]

Just wanted to point out, Harvey…

 

Knox's first 3 seasons with the Bills were 5-11, 7-9, and 11-5.

 

So it took him 3 years to turn it around.

 

You're right. He was an excellent coach… but the talent in Buffalo improved greatly in the time where he was given the reigns to the football operations.

 

My recollection was that Knox was the de facto GM (Barber was Wilson's eyes and ears in Orchard Park) but that Knox eventually fell out of favor with Wilson because the payroll kept increasing.

 

Knox brought in a bunch of veteran players like Isiah Robertson, Phil Villapiano, Conrad Dobler, Sherman White, Frank Lewis, Roosevelt Leaks, Ron Jessie, Lawrence McCutcheon, Lou Piccone, and others who were good pros but cost a little bit more money. Except for the OJ Simpson contract, Wilson was very unaccustomed to having much of a payroll on his football team.

 

Long-time Bills fans will remember Wilson's inability to retain Knox (they couldn't come to terms on a new contract) and his players as one of the times where the accusations that "Ralph is cheap" really seemed to ring true.

 

In summation, Knox was a very good coach who took 3 years to turn the team around as he gradually improved the talent level.

 

After Wilson failed to offer Knox a satisfactory contract, Seattle swooped in and gladly gave Knox the money he was seeking.

 

In Seattle, Knox led the Seahawks to a .590 winning percentage over the next 9 seasons.

..and such is the sad story of Ralph's ownership/mismanagement.After driving off the great football men we had in the organization Saban,Chuck,Polian,we would sink into more years of misery.

[thewildrabbit]

Just wanted to point out, Harvey…

 

Knox's first 3 seasons with the Bills were 5-11, 7-9, and 11-5.

 

So it took him 3 years to turn it around.

You're right. He was an excellent coach… but the talent in Buffalo improved greatly in the time where he was given the reigns to the football operations.

 

My recollection was that Knox was the de facto GM (Barber was Wilson's eyes and ears in Orchard Park) but that Knox eventually fell out of favor with Wilson because the payroll kept increasing.

 

Knox brought in a bunch of veteran players like Isiah Robertson, Phil Villapiano, Conrad Dobler, Sherman White, Frank Lewis, Roosevelt Leaks, Ron Jessie, Lawrence McCutcheon, Lou Piccone, and others who were good pros but cost a little bit more money. Except for the OJ Simpson contract, Wilson was very unaccustomed to having much of a payroll on his football team.

 

Long-time Bills fans will remember Wilson's inability to retain Knox (they couldn't come to terms on a new contract) and his players as one of the times where the accusations that "Ralph is cheap" really seemed to ring true.

 

In summation, Knox was a very good coach who took 3 years to turn the team around as he gradually improved the talent level.

 

After Wilson failed to offer Knox a satisfactory contract, Seattle swooped in and gladly gave Knox the money he was seeking.

 

In Seattle, Knox led the Seahawks to a .590 winning percentage over the next 9 seasons.

I didn't edit that post and i did say 3 years

 

Knox was a winner, 3 teams different teams in the playoffs all with nobody's at QB. Think about it, that's impressive!

 

Basically what I wanted to point out was that it doesn't take 5 years to build a team, it should take 1 to 3 years max if you hire a good coach. Marv did the exact same thing in the same time frame only he had Polian finding the talent. So I'd say Knox was a significantly better head coach as he made the playoffs with unknown assistants, and a bum for a GM. The only reason a team should regress under a new head coach and staff is if they are starting a rookie QB, otherwise they should improve.

 

BTW, Knox brought in all those older vets for leadership purposes, guys like Phil Villapiano were invaluable for their ability to help motivate the younger guys in the locker room! Some of those you named didn't stay with the team very long. From my perspective Wilson didn't retain Knox because the fans were back and the stadium was filled again.

 

 

Like I stated above, that even Nix figured last years team would improve. Shoot, most of the posters here where gushing about how any offensive minded coach should be an improvement over Dick Jauron and most were astonished when the team failed to improve from Jauron.

 

 

 

Bill Cowher is still out there unemployed by an NFL team, and so is Marty S, and Marty ball would more then likely come a lot cheaper then Cowher. Marty could actually get this team on the right track in one year IMO. Plus I'm fairly certain Marty would love to get revenge on AJ Smith and the Chargers for dumping him after a 14-2 season.

 

I for one would love to see Marty get another shot in the NFL. Unlike Gailey, the man knows who to hire as assistants, look at who he had at SD. Wade Phillips was the DC and Cam Cameron was the OC. Plus like Knox, Marty is a supreme motivator. It's just to darn bad that RW didn't feel "comfortable'" with Schotty, wonder if he is comfy with 4-12.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

To Tcali. sucks this owner is his own worst enemy

Edited June 27, 2011 by Harvey lives