T master Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Why should L.A. be given another chance at a NFL team moving there let alone 2 ? They have had 2 chances in the past to have a franchise stay there & they screwed both of them up . I don't see why they should get one more chance to make it work at the expense of another cities economy & fan base !! Sure the NFL like any other business is based on profitability ,but WNY is so dependent on the Bills for economic reasons how can they move them ? It would cripple the economy worse than what the democratic leadership has already done in the past 30 years !! If the NFL is so hell bent on L.A. screwing up & not giving a rats a** about another team in that hell whole let them put 2 expansion teams in there & leave the Bills & other teams along with their fan base alone !! Besides after being in business for over 50 years in a certain area they should let the teams stay where they are at , but as long as you have people like Jerry Jones & Robert Kraft the GREED mongers that they are that don't want to share the revenues that all teams make (which has made the NFL such a viable sport) smaller market teams will always pay the price . I for one believe one day the NFL will be just like baseball which sure ain't what it use to be !! Half full stadiums with big corporate names on the front of them (which the NFL has already started to do all but "The Ralph") , the Cowboys & , Patriots with billion dollar salaries & 30 or so championships & the other teams left to fend for them selves . Oh ya once in a while the little guy will get it right & win one but for the most part all the talk at the beginning of every year will be about the big 2 or 3 . By that time most of us long time fans will no longer give a and they can do what they want . But for now GO BILLS !!!!!! L.A.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Why should L.A. be given another chance at a NFL team moving there let alone 2 ? As long as LA is the 2d biggest city in the US, they will get all the chances they want. Stomping your feet about it isn't going to change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) As long as LA is the 2d biggest city in the US, they will get all the chances they want. Stomping your feet about it isn't going to change anything. The squeaky wheel get's the grease but i realize that , that is now the way in America let's just sit back & not say anything & things will work them selves out let's not stand for any thing . If you are a true Bills fan you would realize why the Bills in the state of NY & more than likely the NFL are considered a second rate team & why we don't have a new stadium . You think it could be because all most all of the municipal bonds for stadium building could be sucked away from the rest of the friggin state so they could support NYC once again ?? Meaning The Jets , The Giants & The Yankees !! Which have 2 new state of the art stadiums !! It's (to quote a line from a rock & roll group) " Same as it ever was" the rest of the state money goes to the money pit better known as NYC to make it all that while the rest of the state & people with in do with out !!! And as long as every thing stays the same as it has been & no one makes any noise (by stomping their feet) people will continue to leave the state & eventually lose the Bills to then B word that they are gone !! So carry on ole silent one !!! Edited June 19, 2011 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I'm curious what the numbers show for the bills economic impact on WNY.... I'm sure it's big, but I bet not as crippling financially as you would think if they left. I dunno though, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 2 x 32 = 64 more games if the season was extended to 18 games. 16 x 2 = 36 more games if 2 expansion teams are added 36 is less than 64 but then the owners get partially what they want, more games and a team or two in LA do the teams in ? (rams, jags, etc) lose $, or just don't make as much of a profit as most other teams? in general, i'm not really pro-expansion but i think if LA/NFL is hellbent on bringing a team to LA, who don't they just expand? i think there's enough of a counter-movement to keep the NFL OUT of LA since they've failed so many times in the past. there has to be people who realize the potential for disaster... move the rams back to LA and it doesn't go well, then you've messed up a franchise in two cities rather than just one. and just bc LA is so big doesn't mean they deserve a team. unless SD, OAK, or SF moves there, you are going to be competing for fans in an established market. i know there's football fans in LA, but aren't they already supporting one of the other california teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 2 x 32 = 64 more games if the season was extended to 18 games. 16 x 2 = 36 more games if 2 expansion teams are added 36 is less than 64 but then the owners get partially what they want, more games and a team or two in LA do the teams in ? (rams, jags, etc) lose $, or just don't make as much of a profit as most other teams? in general, i'm not really pro-expansion but i think if LA/NFL is hellbent on bringing a team to LA, who don't they just expand? i think there's enough of a counter-movement to keep the NFL OUT of LA since they've failed so many times in the past. there has to be people who realize the potential for disaster... move the rams back to LA and it doesn't go well, then you've messed up a franchise in two cities rather than just one. and just bc LA is so big doesn't mean they deserve a team. unless SD, OAK, or SF moves there, you are going to be competing for fans in an established market. i know there's football fans in LA, but aren't they already supporting one of the other california teams? Don't expand. The talent level doesn't need to get more watered down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Don't expand. The talent level doesn't need to get more watered down. i completely agree, just kinda brainstorming... i guess my point is if LA has to get a team, it needs to come from California, or be an expansion team. and furthermore i don't think LA should get a team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 L.A. has beaches, Hollywood, mountains & Mexico (close), basketball, soccer and baseball. For football it has semi-pro teams in the PAC10 in USC & UCLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) I still criticize the NFL for letting both teams leave in the same offseason...err... Al Davis for telling the NFL to screw off, and moving the Raiduhs back to Jokeland after the Lambs were approved to move to STL. Because of this the NFL went from having 2 teams in a population center of 12 million to having 2 teams (SF, JOAK) in a population center of 4 million. Furthermore, the Raiduhs have hinted at moving back to LA as they are having trouble getting a new stadium to replace their current stadium. If any team should be in LA, it should have been Davis and the Raiders all along. Edited June 19, 2011 by justnzane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoretalk Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The squeaky wheel get's the grease but i realize that , that is now the way in America let's just sit back & not say anything & things will work them selves out let's not stand for any thing . If you are a true Bills fan you would realize why the Bills in the state of NY & more than likely the NFL are considered a second rate team & why we don't have a new stadium . You think it could be because all most all of the municipal bonds for stadium building could be sucked away from the rest of the friggin state so they could support NYC once again ?? Meaning The Jets , The Giants & The Yankees !! Which have 2 new state of the art stadiums !! It's (to quote a line from a rock & roll group) " Same as it ever was" the rest of the state money goes to the money pit better known as NYC to make it all that while the rest of the state & people with in do with out !!! And as long as every thing stays the same as it has been & no one makes any noise (by stomping their feet) people will continue to leave the state & eventually lose the Bills to then B word that they are gone !! So carry on ole silent one !!! Just a side note ... the Jets and Giants new stadium is here in my adopted state of New Jersey not in New York City. Those are New Jersey state taxes supporting the roadways and transportation systems that make those two teams viable. I'll keep the Giants but wish the Jets were dumped off in a Staten Island landfill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 So when does this turn into another "Ralph is cheap" thread? I mean, shouldn't this be merged with the others? They all start out the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites Bay Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 As long as LA is the 2d biggest city in the US, they will get all the chances they want. Stomping your feet about it isn't going to change anything. The cynic in me agrees with you, KD. But unless you have an investment group that is willing to plunk down the total cost, if not the majority cost, of a billion-dollar stadium, the L.A. bid has a big problem. I'm not saying it's an insurmountable problem, but let's get down to brass tacks. California is a budget nightmare. New York is god-awful, but California makes New York look like some sort of fiscally Puritanical nirvana. I mean, it's a goddamn mess. They can't even pass a budget, and even if they do, next year's fiscal situation will be worse. And AEG is going to look for SEM (Someone Elses Money) to build a billion-dollar stadium? Yeesh. That's salesmanship. "Free Man in Paris" - Joni Mitchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) The cynic in me agrees with you, KD. But unless you have an investment group that is willing to plunk down the total cost, if not the majority cost, of a billion-dollar stadium, the L.A. bid has a big problem. I'm not saying it's an insurmountable problem, but let's get down to brass tacks. California is a budget nightmare. New York is god-awful, but California makes New York look like some sort of fiscally Puritanical nirvana. I mean, it's a goddamn mess. They can't even pass a budget, and even if they do, next year's fiscal situation will be worse. And AEG is going to look for SEM (Someone Elses Money) to build a billion-dollar stadium? Yeesh. That's salesmanship. "Free Man in Paris" - Joni Mitchell I'm not saying the LA bid is anywhere near a done deal, or that I'd like to see a franchise there. I'm just saying these little rant threads about it are pretty childish. I love the response above, complete with the 'if you were a real fan' nonsense and typical whining about NYC vs. Upstate, as though that is the reason why Buffalo is a dying city. As for funding of NFL stadiums, I've stated many times that I am vehemently opposed to one dime of taxpayer money going to build these billion dollar sports palaces. I don't think it should happen in Buffalo, LA, or anywhere else. If they made me Emperor tomorrow, I'd execute every politician that ever signed off on a sweetheart public-stadium deal that made everyone involved rich at the expense of the taxpayers. Edited June 20, 2011 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Why should L.A. be given another chance at a NFL team moving there let alone 2 ? They have had 2 chances in the past to have a franchise stay there & they screwed both of them up . I don't see why they should get one more chance to make it work at the expense of another cities economy & fan base !! Sure the NFL like any other business is based on profitability ,but WNY is so dependent on the Bills for economic reasons how can they move them ? It would cripple the economy worse than what the democratic leadership has already done in the past 30 years !! If the NFL is so hell bent on L.A. screwing up & not giving a rats a** about another team in that hell whole let them put 2 expansion teams in there & leave the Bills & other teams along with their fan base alone !! Besides after being in business for over 50 years in a certain area they should let the teams stay where they are at , but as long as you have people like Jerry Jones & Robert Kraft the GREED mongers that they are that don't want to share the revenues that all teams make (which has made the NFL such a viable sport) smaller market teams will always pay the price . I for one believe one day the NFL will be just like baseball which sure ain't what it use to be !! Half full stadiums with big corporate names on the front of them (which the NFL has already started to do all but "The Ralph") , the Cowboys & , Patriots with billion dollar salaries & 30 or so championships & the other teams left to fend for them selves . Oh ya once in a while the little guy will get it right & win one but for the most part all the talk at the beginning of every year will be about the big 2 or 3 . By that time most of us long time fans will no longer give a and they can do what they want . But for now GO BILLS !!!!!! L.A.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some crazy stuff right there! But most of it based on factual inaccuracies. The NFL is not going to expand in our lifetimes. Moving the Bills would hrdly cripple the economy. Kraft is on record since he bought his team as a solid supporter of revenue sharing. Because there is a salary cap, shared TV renenue and no guaranteed contracts, the NFL will never be "like the MLB". If you are a true Bills fan you would realize why the Bills in the state of NY & more than likely the NFL are considered a second rate team & why we don't have a new stadium . You think it could be because all most all of the municipal bonds for stadium building could be sucked away from the rest of the friggin state so they could support NYC once again ?? Meaning The Jets , The Giants & The Yankees !! Which have 2 new state of the art stadiums !! It's (to quote a line from a rock & roll group) " Same as it ever was" the rest of the state money goes to the money pit better known as NYC to make it all that while the rest of the state & people with in do with out !!! And as long as every thing stays the same as it has been & no one makes any noise (by stomping their feet) people will continue to leave the state & eventually lose the Bills to then B word that they are gone !! So carry on ole silent one !!! More nonsense. As others have pointed out, Giants STadium is in NJ. Also, it was privately financed by the Jets and the Giants--nothing preventing Ralph from paying for an overhaul of "his" stadium out of his maasive pockets. Also, NYC is hardly a "money pit"--75% of NYS tax revenues come from downstate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Why should L.A. be given another chance at a NFL team moving there let alone 2 ? They have had 2 chances in the past to have a franchise stay there & they screwed both of them up . I don't see why they should get one more chance to make it work at the expense of another cities economy & fan base !! Sure the NFL like any other business is based on profitability ,but WNY is so dependent on the Bills for economic reasons how can they move them ? It would cripple the economy worse than what the democratic leadership has already done in the past 30 years !! If the NFL is so hell bent on L.A. screwing up & not giving a rats a** about another team in that hell whole let them put 2 expansion teams in there & leave the Bills & other teams along with their fan base alone !! Besides after being in business for over 50 years in a certain area they should let the teams stay where they are at , but as long as you have people like Jerry Jones & Robert Kraft the GREED mongers that they are that don't want to share the revenues that all teams make (which has made the NFL such a viable sport) smaller market teams will always pay the price . I for one believe one day the NFL will be just like baseball which sure ain't what it use to be !! Half full stadiums with big corporate names on the front of them (which the NFL has already started to do all but "The Ralph") , the Cowboys & , Patriots with billion dollar salaries & 30 or so championships & the other teams left to fend for them selves . Oh ya once in a while the little guy will get it right & win one but for the most part all the talk at the beginning of every year will be about the big 2 or 3 . By that time most of us long time fans will no longer give a and they can do what they want . But for now GO BILLS !!!!!! L.A.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You, sir, are a history-ignorant knucklehead. First off, there were three franchises that moved outta LA (you apparently forgot the Chargers). Secondly, the fans in LA strongly supported both the Rams and Raiders (and there are still hard-core supporters of both, possibly more in sheer numbers than Bills fans in WNY). The Rams did just fine in LA, recording some of the largest crowds in NFL history. The reason they moved to Orange County was strictly about money: ownership got subsidized directly to do so. And the move to St. Louis was more (much more) of the same, with big chunks of dough going directly into Georgia Frontiere's capacious handbag. The same was true for the Raiders. When LA taxpayers refused to build him a stadium for free, he wangled a deal out of Alameda County (How's that workin' out, Al?). The problem was never with fan support but all about "maximizing" ownership profits through blackmail of the taxpayers. LA refused; St. Louis and Oakland pulled down their pants and bent over because, you know, without an NFL franchise in your city, life's not worth living. FWIW, Al Davis still claims that LA is his "territory" and will demand indemnification from any team that moves into Los Angeles. How he figures that is beyond me but it's always dangerous to bet against him when it comes to litigation. I saw a reporter on the news the other day who said that "as soon as Al hears the sound of that first shovel at a new stadium, he'll have the trucks heading south on the I-5." So count on Al to make putting a franchise or two in LA a complicated headache One last thing: while you'd have no trouble finding any number of Rams, Raiders or Charger fans in LA, you'd be hard pressed to find a single person who supports using one penny of taxpayer money to bring them to town. Which is not to say that Philip Anschutz, the devout fundamental christian billionaire behind AEG, won't find yet another corrupt, behind-the-scenes way to get what he wants in the end. As the US comes to more and more resemble late empire Rome, the necessity of keeping un- and under-employed citizens distracted with bread and circuses is likely to become more attractive to nervous politicians who can imagine the snick of the guillotine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Some crazy stuff right there! But most of it based on factual inaccuracies. The NFL is not going to expand in our lifetimes. Moving the Bills would hrdly cripple the economy. Kraft is on record since he bought his team as a solid supporter of revenue sharing. Because there is a salary cap, shared TV renenue and no guaranteed contracts, the NFL will never be "like the MLB". More nonsense. As others have pointed out, Giants STadium is in NJ. Also, it was privately financed by the Jets and the Giants--nothing preventing Ralph from paying for an overhaul of "his" stadium out of his maasive pockets. Also, NYC is hardly a "money pit"--75% of NYS tax revenues come from downstate. .....and NYC consumes 85% of that revenue or more. NYC debt service is one of the highest in the nation and growing. Yes it's a money pit is every real sense of the word and it will ultimately bankrupt the state of NY. The non-NYC residents would be so much better off it NYC was separated from the State (I understand this isn't a possibility). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 .....and NYC consumes 85% of that revenue or more. NYC debt service is one of the highest in the nation and growing. Yes it's a money pit is every real sense of the word and it will ultimately bankrupt the state of NY. The non-NYC residents would be so much better off it NYC was separated from the State (I understand this isn't a possibility). This means there is a net flow of tax dollars from upstate to downstate. My search reveals only reports of the opposite--including "Unshackleupstate.com and the CGR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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