I like Gailey, but what was he thinking

[PDaDdy]

My recollection is that not only did all the tape on Trent not suck, but that a great talent evaluator and user Bill Walsh went out of his way to sing Edwards praises and that was a big part of why the Bills drafted him in the first place.

 

Edwards showed some very good stuff as a rookie such that his pre-season performance not only in practice but on the field won him the #2 job behind JP. I think folks were impressed with his initial work and I do not remember any wail and cry when he won the back-up job.

 

Add to this that when JP got Wilforked in the first game of the season while Edwards did not lead the team to a victory over one of the best teams in the league he clearly impressed most observers. I remember rather than being a stumble bum who made folks ask what the heck was Bill Walsh and the other "professionals" thinking that Edwards demonstrated on the field as a rookie against one of the best Ds in football:

 

1. A good head and football sense which was likely why he so impressed Walsh.

2. A quick arm and very good accuracy (I remember being frightened for his health when he hung in the pocket but got the ball out for some nice completions as a rookie.

3. Even better he proved suprisingly nimble and fleet of foot as a rookie.

 

My recollection is that Edwards impressed outside observers alot with his early play but ultimately two things happened:

 

1. His luck ran out and he got nailed a couple of times with his gutsy late throws and got knocked out of the line-up with a wrist injury.

2. Not only did he lose PT to the wrist injury as a rookie but he got blasted and ended up with a concussion which cost him a couple of games after he led the team to a great undefeated start against weak competition (but still players with NFL size and speed) in his second year.

 

It was a combination of him being gunshy after some huge pro hits, him proving to be injury prone as a pro after

being good enough to impress Bill Walsh (who has forgotten more about football than you or I will ever know) evaluating his play- I define injury prone as missing PT to three separate injuries in 2 seasons- Edwards went down with a wrist, a concussion, and an unexplained injury which cost him valuable pre-season time his second year, AND the big thing in my mind the Bills offense was pretty clueless under Jauron who never showed the ability to hire a good UC even when he was NFL HC of the year behind a great D and good luck.

 

The Bills took a player with pretty good skills and who may had some bad luck prior to his draft and then ruined this player in terms of development.

 

The fact that you simply disregard a bunch of history in drawing your conclusion that the professional were out to lunch actually makes me question who is out to lunch here.

 

Edwards had fatal flaws which made him not a good choice to be a franchise QB. However, in his brief stint til being injury prone caught up with him he was quite impressive so it is not a mystery to me that the professional evaluators got fooled.

 

Absolutely no offense to you but the Trent took a big hit(s) and it ruined him is a cop out. This kid just didn't have it. He wasn't the superstar that Levy, Jauron and Bill Walsh thought he was coming out of college. His PRO tape was terrible. The rose colored glassed need to come off. He had some good moments in there but so has just about every other has been QB that was never cut out for the NFL. People were WRONG on him but they try to make excuses for why the were wrong claiming that they really were right had it not been for a few unfortunate mishaps.

 

People can't admit that they had been watching a ballless weak armed QB for his last 3+ years with Buffalo. No he wasn't smart as is evidenced by Fitz coming in as the backup and being given more latitude to make audibles and getting the line in the right protection. Smart QBs can do that. Dumb ones can't. No exceptions. This team has expressed their desire to play with Fitz leading them. For Edwards all they ever said of him is that we can win with him. Apparently Fitz is the better leader as well. It's got to stop.

 

Next you'll be making excuses for JP.

 

By the way. If you haven't, go back and take a look at his stats. It's more fools gold. He is, was and always has been a checkdown artist. It took a bit of time but opposing defenses figured this out too. Eight in the box. Tackle the RB on the way to the QB if he has the ball. Secondary plays tight coverage 15 yards and shorter. Not too difficult a attack plan to figure out.

Edited June 18, 2011 by PDaDdy

[thewildrabbit]

Absolutely no offense to you but the Trent took a big hit(s) and it ruined him is a cop out. This kid just didn't have it. He wasn't the superstar that Levy, Jauron and Bill Walsh thought he was coming out of college. His PRO tape was terrible. The rose colored glassed need to come off. He had some good moments in there but so has just about every other has been QB that was never cut out for the NFL. People were WRONG on him but they try to make excuses for why the were wrong claiming that they really were right had it not been for a few unfortunate mishaps.

 

People can't admit that they had been watching a ballless weak armed QB for his last 3+ years with Buffalo. No he wasn't smart as is evidenced by Fitz coming in as the backup and being given more latitude to make audibles and getting the line in the right protection. Smart QBs can do that. Dumb ones can't. No exceptions. This team has expressed their desire to play with Fitz leading them. For Edwards all they ever said of him is that we can win with him. Apparently Fitz is the better leader as well. It's got to stop.

 

Next you'll be making excuses for JP.

 

By the way. If you haven't, go back and take a look at his stats. It's more fools gold. He is, was and always has been a checkdown artist. It took a bit of time but opposing defenses figured this out too. Eight in the box. Tackle the RB on the way to the QB if he has the ball. Secondary plays tight coverage 15 yards and shorter. Not too difficult a attack plan to figure out.

No offense to you, how do you know that? He kept getting hit and regressed instead of progressing.

 

Bill Walsh also stated it takes about 3-4 years of playing in the same system, same coaches, same scheme to develop properly. If anyone in the world should know what it takes to properly develop a QB, it would be him.

 

Even though Edwards was in a West coast system in college he started to show flashes with Buffalo that he could be really good. In 2008 the Bills were 4-0 and looking good as Edwards had comeback wins over the Raiders-Rams and Jags. Then the Bills went to Arizona and allowed a safety to come untouched and concuss the QB knocking him out of the game. Although the Bills would win the next game against the Chargers with Edwards as QB, I think that concussion in Arizona started to have lingering effects.

 

BTW, Edwards stood in there and delivered that pass in Arizona, even tho he knew he was going to be slammed... he completed that pass. The guy had balls, its just a question of how many times do you get kicked in the balls before you decide to start avoiding those kicks in the balls

 

We know for a fact that 5 concussions can kill a career, ask Joe Montana- Steve Young-Troy Aikman, Edwards suffered 3 while with Buffalo, 2 were severe causing him to miss more then one game.

 

 

In my opinion Jauron and his band of clowns ruined both JP and Edwards by allowing them to get beaten up behind crappy lines. Even tho JP had Jason Peters at LT, that didn't help at the center position where they had 6 guys in 4 years.

 

Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco both have great lines and great running attacks to help them develop, Bills QB's haven't had that. . You can't expect to draft just any QB and then try and force him to fit the system, especially behind bad lines with little or no running game, no TE.

 

Stats say the Bills have a semblance of a running game because now and then I see someone posting how good Buffalo is at running the ball. But the reality is that the Bills can't make a first down in the red zone running the ball when they really need to. With the game on the line the Bills can't control the LoS or control the clock by running.

 

Bottom line is the Bills haven't had a decent O line since the Kelly era, haven't had a decent tight end since the Kelly era. The Bills keep bringing in QB's, 8 QB's in 10 years, and they keep failing at winning because every new head coach they hire decides that they don't need a top line to win.

 

 

When you look at a QB's like Joey Harrington, David Carr do you blame them for not succeeding or do you blame the team they were on and how they were developed? Carr took so many sacks in his first year he set a new record, his fault or the teams failure to establish a decent ground game to support him and a decent line to protect him.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Harvey lives

[Nasty]

Don't get me wrong, in net, I like Gailey, but I have to get one thing off my chest.

 

Last years moves surrounding Marshawn Lynch were about as unexplainable as any moves I've ever seen.

 

I can not fathom why Lynch was playing so much at the beginning of the year. Any way you look at it, the logic is inexplicable.

 

Options:

1) He watched absolutely no film covering the previous 2 years, showing Fred Jackson as our MVP.

2) He literally gave up the season before it even began, in an effort to increase Lynch's trade value from nothing to next to nothing.

 

Either way, I'm still upset about it. Obviously, I need some help.

Gaily and Nix were learning what they had on the roster. Yes film says a lot but a lot is also learned about a player on the sidelines as well. I liked Lynch but he is no Fred. I also think Spiller will turn out to be a surprise this year as well. Fred and Spiller will be a good 1/2 punch.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

All the more it made sense to deal him on Draft day and not have him take reps in the off season from another player. We also may have got a 3rd round pick for him instead of the crap from Seattle or may be swapped for the equally in-the-dog-house LB from Green Bay. It might have been a win-win situation.

 

I could be mistaken and often am....I think Gailey came in with the mindset to honestly build the team around players like Edwards and Lynch. On paper Lynch oughta be the better player than Jackson just as Edwards oughta be the better player than Fitz. I think Gailey thought perhaps poor coaching/playcalling/system were to blame and he could rehabilitate them. It's not a Bad Thing for a new head coach to come in with the attitude he can get more from his players than the prev. coach.

 

Football being played on Sunday, not on paper, it took two weeks for Edwards to disabuse Gailey of his notion. I think Gailey still wanted Lynch to contribute to the rebuilding team. It's my belief that Lynch did something in the locker room that was completely beyond the pale to Gailey. Showed up stoned, dissed off his coach, served as a major bad example to new players- I don't know what, but I think it was serious to Gailey. I think Gailey went to Nix and said "get him outta here NOW, this week, tomorrow - I don't want a long negotiation, I want him gone". Nix picked up the phone and went with the team who'd already been calling as the fastest way to implement what Gailey asked.

 

I have no inside information on this viewpoint other than some scraps referring to Lynch as a "locker room virus". It's just an explanation that seems to reconcile the perception of Nix as a reasonable GM (not completely incompetent), all the previous talk of not trading Lynch, and the observation of a very hasty trade with no shopping around.

[thewildrabbit]

Gaily and Nix were learning what they had on the roster. Yes film says a lot but a lot is also learned about a player on the sidelines as well. I liked Lynch but he is no Fred. I also think Spiller will turn out to be a surprise this year as well. Fred and Spiller will be a good 1/2 punch.

Since when does it take an entire year to find out whats on the roster?If those two can't watch tape and figure out if a player is good or not....then they are in the wrong business. Well shoot, HTH do they determine if a college player is good or not, they draft him and watch him for a year and then see if he is good?

 

Stop making excuses for the two bums RW hired! 2 more bums in a long concession of bums

[maryland-bills-fan]

No, there is a valid point. Gailey did watch the tape of Edward playing in some other coach's system. (You are dumb as a rock if you think he didn't). He didn't know that Edwards was not salvagable, until he saw Edwards playing under his system, with live bullets being fired. When Edwards showed it was not the system, then he got rid of him quickly. There are parallel examples from the military. A lot of guys who were tough guys or good performers in training, suddenly failed the moment they were in actual combat, saw the dead bodies of people from their own unit and actually realized that somebody was trying to kill them. (You might have read "Red Badge of Courage" in high school- it tells a similar story)

[PDaDdy]

PDaDdy, on 18 June 2011 - 04:58 PM, said:

This kid just didn't have it.

 

No offense to you, how do you know that? He kept getting hit and regressed instead of progressing.

 

I would say history has shown us exactly what he has wouldn't you?

 

Trent sucked. Quit making excuses! He was given more of a chance than many 1st round top pick QBs and he was a crappy 3rd rounder. QBs get hit all the time unless you're Tom Brady. You're embarrassing yourself. Trent himself has been quoted as saying the "hit" didn't have any lasting effect on him. Straight from the guys own mouth but the apologists keep trying to make up excuses for him.

[spartacus]

It was obvious to most the Bills were showcasing him for a trade. Not that hard to figure out, really.

 

the showcasing worked so well that they got less in trade than the offer they turned down on draft day - when they could have gotten help for last season.

[thewildrabbit]

PDaDdy, on 18 June 2011 - 04:58 PM, said:

This kid just didn't have it.

 

 

 

I would say history has shown us exactly what he has wouldn't you?

 

Trent sucked. Quit making excuses! He was given more of a chance than many 1st round top pick QBs and he was a crappy 3rd rounder. QBs get hit all the time unless you're Tom Brady. You're embarrassing yourself. Trent himself has been quoted as saying the "hit" didn't have any lasting effect on him. Straight from the guys own mouth but the apologists keep trying to make up excuses for him.

 

The only thing history has shown me is that the team around Edwards sucked, the head coach sucked, the OC sucked . They all did get fired didn't they? Where is Turk Schonert now, not even in the NFL anymore and thats how bad he was! Did the kid play on a good team, with a good supporting cast or did he play on crap teams where the QB was forced to try and carry the load because the running game stunk, the defense stunk, the O line stunk?

 

When QB Kyle Boller failed with the Ravens it was entirely all him, no question. They had a great defense, great running game, great O line. Plus the previous QB McNair took the team to a 13- 3 record.

 

Not making excuses for all the failed QB's in the past...don't let your hate for ex Bills QB's cloud your mind and think a min.

 

Look at the Detriot Lions and their decade of futility, was it all their QB's sucked or was it the team, or perhaps both. They drafted QB Matthew Stafford with a #1 overall and he has shown flashes of being great when he was on the field. The problem is that their line is so bad he has been injured more then he has played. How many hits does it take to screw up a #1 pick? How long will it be before the Lions fans start saying Stafford sucks, how many concussions, how many shoulder injuries before his arm is a limp noodle?

[PDaDdy]

The only thing history has shown me is that the team around Edwards sucked, the head coach sucked, the OC sucked . They all did get fired didn't they? Where is Turk Schonert now, not even in the NFL anymore and thats how bad he was! Did the kid play on a good team, with a good supporting cast or did he play on crap teams where the QB was forced to try and carry the load because the running game stunk, the defense stunk, the O line stunk?

 

You do realize that JP played under even worse conditions right? In fact his line was even worse before the 2009 1st and 2nd round offensive lineman right? He had a different offensive coordinator every year and 2 years failed to be healthy by game 2 in the season and missed significant time due to injury. JP put more TDs on the board and could actually throw a football longer than 15 yards in the air. He must have been even better than Edwards by your criteria and was also the victim of an even worse running game, defense and o-line.

 

What say you to that?????

[thewildrabbit]

You do realize that JP played under even worse conditions right? In fact his line was even worse before the 2009 1st and 2nd round offensive lineman right? He had a different offensive coordinator every year and 2 years failed to be healthy by game 2 in the season and missed significant time due to injury. JP put more TDs on the board and could actually throw a football longer than 15 yards in the air. He must have been even better than Edwards by your criteria and was also the victim of an even worse running game, defense and o-line.

 

What say you to that?????

You seem fixated on Edwards ability to throw deep, who cares? You are missing the point. Where are all those coaches that JP played under, where are all the offensive players he played with? Is any linemen that played on the same teams as JP played on still with the team? That's my point. Go back and look at the Knox - Levy Era, they had some of the same linemen with the Bills for 10-15 years or more.

 

This Bills team has sucked for a decade,bad coaches,bad players, the offensive schemes stunk. Bad talent evaluators. How can any rookie / new QB develop properly under those conditions. You seem to have tunnel vision where all you see is the QB, its a team sport. You look at the QB, I look at the team, the players, the coaches, the FO.

 

Guess what, this current team still sucks! Even tho Fitz started to look 1/2 way decent in some games last year he will probably get beaten up just like JP & TE behind that makeshift crap O line. With no TE, no running game, one leg injury and Fitz is done...stick a fork in him. But then everyone will say he always sucked.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Harvey lives

[tennesseeboy]

Frankly Gailey and Nix took to long to unload Edwards. It cost us a few games, and we ended up with one of our worse seasons ever. Gailey and Nix have a long way to go to show that they deserve to hold their jobs, but there were signs in the second half of last season, and it looks like they may have a good draft. The failure to address offensive tackle is extremely puzzling, but if they get nine wins this season they should stay.

[billsfreak]

Absolutely no offense to you but the Trent took a big hit(s) and it ruined him is a cop out. This kid just didn't have it.

Not saying this from memory or as a fact, but my guess is you and many others werent saying that the four games before he took that hit in Arizona when the Bills were 4-0 and the only undefeated team left in the entire NFL.

[tennesseeboy]

Gailey had a lot of chances to see Edwards on film, including the 4-0 start. He saw him in camp and saw him, most important in the regular season. He delayed in pulling the trigger, resulting, because of that and other decisions, in a disaster of a season.

[BuffaloBill]

1) Nix/Gailey only want players who want to be a Bill.

 

2) What did Marshawn do other than one TD run in the playoffs...or in his years as a Bill?

 

PTR

 

 

Lynch also has sizable and talent .... Gaily likely wanted to see what he would do with it in his system on game days. FJ is also not young by NFL standards so Gailey may have taken a longer run picture into the equation. At the end of the day, another lost high draft choice .... I hope the same will not come of Spiller.

[Jauronimo]

Gailey had a lot of chances to see Edwards on film, including the 4-0 start. He saw him in camp and saw him, most important in the regular season. He delayed in pulling the trigger, resulting, because of that and other decisions, in a disaster of a season.

The impression I got was that Edwards was a big time practice player. Looked like the guy Monday through Saturday and it never translated to Sunday for whatever reason. All the camp coverage suggested Edwards outperformed Fitz and company, and clearly established himself as the starter. Obviously when it mattered, the pressure or speed was too much for Trent.

 

I'll bet that everyone here who played sports can think of a guy who looked good during drills but couldn't put it together during the game.

[CardinalScotts]

Don't get me wrong, in net, I like Gailey, but I have to get one thing off my chest.

 

Last years moves surrounding Marshawn Lynch were about as unexplainable as any moves I've ever seen.

 

I can not fathom why Lynch was playing so much at the beginning of the year. Any way you look at it, the logic is inexplicable.

 

Options:

1) He watched absolutely no film covering the previous 2 years, showing Fred Jackson as our MVP.

2) He literally gave up the season before it even began, in an effort to increase Lynch's trade value from nothing to next to nothing.

 

Either way, I'm still upset about it. Obviously, I need some help.

 

- not going to be very good, showcase Lynch and get him the hell out of here

[thewildrabbit]

The impression I got was that Edwards was a big time practice player. Looked like the guy Monday through Saturday and it never translated to Sunday for whatever reason. All the camp coverage suggested Edwards outperformed Fitz and company, and clearly established himself as the starter. Obviously when it mattered, the pressure or speed was too much for Trent.

 

I'll bet that everyone here who played sports can think of a guy who looked good during drills but couldn't put it together during the game.

What does that say to you when the bullets fly, what you see on film when he plays? It tells me they guy can't cope with the amount of pressure allowed by the line. So there are things you can do as a coach should you decide to go with the guy who is more susceptible to pressures, like drafting to help the line, get a freaking good blocking tight end

 

If Gailey watched film at all from previous years then why waste time on him in preseason? Gailey is a tool!

[tennesseeboy]

The impression I got was that Edwards was a big time practice player. Looked like the guy Monday through Saturday and it never translated to Sunday for whatever reason. All the camp coverage suggested Edwards outperformed Fitz and company, and clearly established himself as the starter. Obviously when it mattered, the pressure or speed was too much for Trent.

 

I'll bet that everyone here who played sports can think of a guy who looked good during drills but couldn't put it together during the game.

yeah...and usually they didn't get to play much in games once that became apparent.

[Jauronimo]

yeah...and usually they didn't get to play much in games once that became apparent.

Isn't that exactly what happened? Gailey watched two games with Edwards and then Trent was cut.