I like Gailey, but what was he thinking

[billsfreak]

If I were a coach I would find it hard to plan an entire offense around a guy that is one screw up away from missing a year, no matter how talented the guy is.

The same coaching staff seems to be planning the defense somewhat around Merriman who also has past suspensions, not to mention has played a total of about 6 or 7 games the past 3 or 4 seasons.

[K-9]

The same coaching staff seems to be planning the defense somewhat around Merriman who also has past suspensions, not to mention has played a total of about 6 or 7 games the past 3 or 4 seasons.

 

Well, in 2007 he played 15 games, was named 2nd team All Pro and made the Pro Bowl, again. I note this because that totally shot to sh*t the arguments that he couldn't play at a high level when not juicing.

 

In 2009, he played in 14 games.

 

So that's 29 games in the past "3 or 4 seasons" and no where near the "6 or 7" you claim.

 

Merriman has been suspended once for PED use. You implied he was suspended more than once.

 

If you're gonna make stuff up to support a claim, try making it harder to refute.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited June 17, 2011 by K-9

[John from Riverside]

So, you know, it's obviously pure coincidence that they decided to play Marshawn and then traded him a few games later. Especially after Marshawn sat out the beginning of camp. Damn, I should have read that Glazer report before I posted.

 

 

/sarcasm.

 

I think the Bills were making a feeble attempt to "look" like they wanted to keep him so they could get more then a 6th round pick....this stuff never turns out to well when the player is driving down his own price on his own.

 

Despite all the negatives Marshawn did a lot of things that I liked on the field....the way he could carry a pile as a thumper I loved....but the guy danced too much in the backfield and took too many negative plays.....and he seemed to run right into tackles rather then try to avoid them. Then his lack of straight line speed after that (basically not a home run hitter)

 

I thought we got good value given the situation.

[billsfreak]

Well, in 2007 he played 15 games, was named 2nd team All Pro and made the Pro Bowl, again. I note this because that totally shot to sh*t the arguments that he couldn't play at a high level when not juicing.

 

In 2009, he played in 14 games.

 

So that's 29 games in the past "3 or 4 seasons" and no where near the "6 or 7" you claim.

 

If you're gonna make stuff up to support a claim, try making it harder to refute.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I wasn't referring to not playing while he wasn't juiced up (in fact I never mentioned juiced up, you brought that up), I was referring to him not being able to play period. I was being slightly sarcastic since I don't have an NFL Stat book here with me at work, the point still got across. 2007 was quite some time ago in football years. In 2007, the Bills had what looked like it was going to be one of the best drafts in team history, they had their Franchise QB (Edwards), a superstar RB (Lynch), a future HOF LB (Poz), among others. In 2007, people on this board were saying how much they liked Jauron as Head Coach, and he was the guy we have been looking for forever. How did all these turn out, that is how long ago 2007 was. I hope Merrimen stays healthy, plays like he did 5 years ago, and is All-Pro, but the odds are against it, and it is quite risky relying on that to happen like the Bills coaching staff is. That was my only point, not to compare actual statistics from a manual.

Edited June 17, 2011 by billsfreak

[Van_phelaN1]

Yeah yeah im going to play call of duty

 

Oh no, that doesn't get you out of a fanboy argument! CoD sucks, Battlefield is better.

[PDaDdy]

Originally posted this incorrectly as a response to another post. Still worth saying. Back on topic.

 

 

UH OH!!! Now you've gone and done it. Mentioning his probowl play? Now you will get all the blowhards that put into question the probowl itself. Nominations to the probowl are only largely based on coaches and players. What the hell do they know!?!?!?!?

 

Let's not even mention the fact for the stats only lovers that Lynch had the highest yds/carry of all of the RBs in the probowl AND that he was called upon to make a crutial 4th down conversion that he made successfully

 

http://www.wivb.com/...o_Bowl_20090208

Edited June 17, 2011 by PDaDdy

[shoretalk]

Don't get me wrong, in net, I like Gailey, but I have to get one thing off my chest.

 

Last years moves surrounding Marshawn Lynch were about as unexplainable as any moves I've ever seen.

 

I can not fathom why Lynch was playing so much at the beginning of the year. Any way you look at it, the logic is inexplicable.

 

Options:

1) He watched absolutely no film covering the previous 2 years, showing Fred Jackson as our MVP.

2) He literally gave up the season before it even began, in an effort to increase Lynch's trade value from nothing to next to nothing.

 

Either way, I'm still upset about it. Obviously, I need some help.

Ok ... there is therapy available.

 

Obviously, at the start of last season Chan had his 'sorting hat' on as he tried to figure out who would make up the future of the Bills. Trent had fooled plenty of us ... Marshawn might be up for a trade and that grandpa playing RT maybe he could do more than snore. On defense we had that kid from Penn State ... nah, no one was so stupid to think he had talent.

 

I cannot be angry with the actions of either Gailey nor Nix for their first season here. They inherited a mess plus we continued to have more injuries than we deserved with both Wood and Bell still not completely recovered from 2009 injuries.

 

This is the year that I want to see our offense jell and like many I hope to see some CJ mixed in even though I believe Jackson is the better starter.

 

GO BILLS ... when's this deal going to be done?

[PDaDdy]

I cannot be angry with the actions of either Gailey nor Nix for their first season here. They inherited a mess plus we continued to have more injuries than we deserved with both Wood and Bell still not completely recovered from 2009 injuries.

 

I was really pissed that Trent "The con artist" Deadwards fooled another coaching staff into starting him. What a waste of an off season and reps for who we ultimately knew was going to be the starter when they didn't bring in a free agent. In hindsite we wouldn't have gotten Marcel Dareus if we hadn't started of 0 - 8.

[billsfreak]

I was really pissed that Trent "The con artist" Deadwards fooled another coaching staff into starting him. What a waste of an off season and reps for who we ultimately knew was going to be the starter when they didn't bring in a free agent. In hindsite we wouldn't have gotten Marcel Dareus if we hadn't started of 0 - 8.

No good coach/talent evaluator has ever been fooled by a player making him/them think he is better then he really is. There is too much film to watch for a player to be a David Copperfield with shoulder pads on. That is part of my point, it does seem like they wasted a whole off season of mini camps, training camp, preseason, etc. making Edwards the starter right away, instead of having a valid competition. You can't though credit Edwards with the entire 0-8 start, he only started two games, and wasn't even on the roster for 5 of those 8 losses. You do make a good point though, in that a few years back if they hadn't started Losman, we never would have been able to draft Maybin-oh wait we probably would have, nobody else would have taken him.

Edited June 17, 2011 by billsfreak

[Kevin]

Oh no, that doesn't get you out of a fanboy argument! CoD sucks, Battlefield is better.

 

COD sucks. Battlefield is way better, but Socom 4 is good also. I'm just glad that my mom lets me play video games still....

[mattsox]

Don't get me wrong, in net, I like Gailey, but I have to get one thing off my chest.

 

Last years moves surrounding Marshawn Lynch were about as unexplainable as any moves I've ever seen.

 

I can not fathom why Lynch was playing so much at the beginning of the year. Any way you look at it, the logic is inexplicable.

 

Options:

1) He watched absolutely no film covering the previous 2 years, showing Fred Jackson as our MVP.

2) He literally gave up the season before it even began, in an effort to increase Lynch's trade value from nothing to next to nothing.

 

Either way, I'm still upset about it. Obviously, I need some help.

 

I agree with you. Marshawn was a Beast!! We need him. Don't get me wrong. I love Freddy. But Marshawn is better against some teams, and is a good weapon to have in your arsenel. Gailey better pray Spiller comes around and becomes the second coming of Thurman Thomas this season. Hell. We need that type of threat again...

[Hplarrm]

The other thing I vaguely remember is that one of the folks in the use Marshawn more camp was none other than Fred Jackson. My understanding was that he and Lynch had a good relationship and both advocated that the Bills could do well by using them both in the backfield at the same time.

 

Jackson/Lynch was certainly no RJ/DF battle where one was gonna play and one was gonna sit. I remember advocating until Jackson busted his paw (the actual answer to the question posed at the start of this thread as to why Lynch saw a lot of time early on rather than some birthereaque conspiracy theory that Gailey had already given up) that the Bills O might be most formidable with a three RB offense which used Spiller as well.

 

If Spiller had shown any ability in the pros which he had hinted at times in college that he could actually run routes and play WR, a opposing DC upon seeing all three RBs in the game would have to make a choice whether to put 8 men in the ox against the run or instead do nickel or even dime coverage.

 

Jackson showed great all-around skills and one of things which made Lynch a first round selection were the receiving skills he demonstrated in college. If Spiller also had his receiving and route running skills emphasized it is not outrageous to think of a Bills O which featured Jackson, and Lynch. and Spiller even lining up in an empty back set.

 

If all the RBs were able to line up wide then Edwards merely would have to pick the one who was being covered by some plodding LB one one and throw to them. It was too bad Jackson got hurt as I think this reduced the Bills to not only playing Lynch a lot but running a pretty vanilla O with him,

 

Gailey seemed to make the choice a full house backfield would not work. I would trust his judgment it did not work rather than look for some conspiracy to allegedly prove he never tried or thought about it.

[PDaDdy]

No good coach/talent evaluator has ever been fooled by a player making him/them think he is better then he really is. There is too much film to watch for a player to be a David Copperfield with shoulder pads on. That is part of my point, it does seem like they wasted a whole off season of mini camps, training camp, preseason, etc. making Edwards the starter right away, instead of having a valid competition. You can't though credit Edwards with the entire 0-8 start, he only started two games, and wasn't even on the roster for 5 of those 8 losses. You do make a good point though, in that a few years back if they hadn't started Losman, we never would have been able to draft Maybin-oh wait we probably would have, nobody else would have taken him.

 

I guess my only options are Trent was a con artist OR several coaching staff/front office combinations REALLY sucked at talent evaluation. This is what I don't understand. Almost all of the tape on Trent is BAD. How did they not see it? The stats said he sucked. Your eyes said he sucked. F the excuses about some magic bullet hit in KC. The game after which he played pretty good actually.

 

These guys are professionals. Did they really truly think he was a better start? Everyone who supported Trent said how much of a leader he was, how smart and poised he was. He couldn't even call out the right protections for his offensive line. It was obvious our line played significantly better with Fitz at the helm. Trent didn't play beyond week 2 or 3 but the damage was done and valuable off season timing, reps and chemistry were wasted on him.

[Hplarrm]

I guess my only options are Trent was a con artist OR several coaching staff/front office combinations REALLY sucked at talent evaluation. This is what I don't understand. Almost all of the tape on Trent is BAD. How did they not see it? The stats said he sucked. Your eyes said he sucked. F the excuses about some magic bullet hit in KC. The game after which he played pretty good actually.

 

These guys are professionals. Did they really truly think he was a better start? Everyone who supported Trent said how much of a leader he was, how smart and poised he was. He couldn't even call out the right protections for his offensive line. It was obvious our line played significantly better with Fitz at the helm. Trent didn't play beyond week 2 or 3 but the damage was done and valuable off season timing, reps and chemistry were wasted on him.

My recollection is that not only did all the tape on Trent not suck, but that a great talent evaluator and user Bill Walsh went out of his way to sing Edwards praises and that was a big part of why the Bills drafted him in the first place.

 

Edwards showed some very good stuff as a rookie such that his pre-season performance not only in practice but on the field won him the #2 job behind JP. I think folks were impressed with his initial work and I do not remember any wail and cry when he won the back-up job.

 

Add to this that when JP got Wilforked in the first game of the season while Edwards did not lead the team to a victory over one of the best teams in the league he clearly impressed most observers. I remember rather than being a stumble bum who made folks ask what the heck was Bill Walsh and the other "professionals" thinking that Edwards demonstrated on the field as a rookie against one of the best Ds in football:

 

1. A good head and football sense which was likely why he so impressed Walsh.

2. A quick arm and very good accuracy (I remember being frightened for his health when he hung in the pocket but got the ball out for some nice completions as a rookie.

3. Even better he proved suprisingly nimble and fleet of foot as a rookie.

 

My recollection is that Edwards impressed outside observers alot with his early play but ultimately two things happened:

 

1. His luck ran out and he got nailed a couple of times with his gutsy late throws and got knocked out of the line-up with a wrist injury.

2. Not only did he lose PT to the wrist injury as a rookie but he got blasted and ended up with a concussion which cost him a couple of games after he led the team to a great undefeated start against weak competition (but still players with NFL size and speed) in his second year.

 

It was a combination of him being gunshy after some huge pro hits, him proving to be injury prone as a pro after

being good enough to impress Bill Walsh (who has forgotten more about football than you or I will ever know) evaluating his play- I define injury prone as missing PT to three separate injuries in 2 seasons- Edwards went down with a wrist, a concussion, and an unexplained injury which cost him valuable pre-season time his second year, AND the big thing in my mind the Bills offense was pretty clueless under Jauron who never showed the ability to hire a good UC even when he was NFL HC of the year behind a great D and good luck.

 

The Bills took a player with pretty good skills and who may had some bad luck prior to his draft and then ruined this player in terms of development.

 

The fact that you simply disregard a bunch of history in drawing your conclusion that the professional were out to lunch actually makes me question who is out to lunch here.

 

Edwards had fatal flaws which made him not a good choice to be a franchise QB. However, in his brief stint til being injury prone caught up with him he was quite impressive so it is not a mystery to me that the professional evaluators got fooled.

[Mark Vader]

Because they were trying to showcase for a trade this running back who couldn't stay out of trouble and is one strike away from a season long suspension?

+1

I like both Fred Jackson & Marshawn Lynch. I wish we could have kept Lynch, but his off-the-field issues were a big problem, and the Bills could not risk losing him as a suspended player for a whole season.

[Van_phelaN1]

Obviously, after months of film study of the previous season and watching closely in the off-season, camp and the preseason, Chan concluded that Trent Edwards and Marshawn Lynch were going to lead his offense to repectablity.

 

To be fair, in practice, Trent Edwards always looked like a good QB. It is easy when you know nobody is going to hit you. On the field Gailey saw the other Edwards, the real one lol.

[fansince88]

So Lynch in his first 3 games this year with the awesome QB play of Trent Edwards and two vital O-lineman coming back from injury unable to participate in any OTAs or training camp that had 1 week of practice before the season started (per Eric Woods himself in a video circulating about him) didn't put up great numbers? WOW, he must suck cut him immediately and ban him from the NFL.

 

Phew...sorry about the run on sentence. lol.

 

No argument on the TD production I see? Yards per carry and other BS is for pure stat geeks. TDs win games. In combination both guys were good for Buffalo and if fans didn't drive him out of town by creating a hostile environment we wouldn't have had to use the 2010 #9 overall pick on a specialty RB. We could have gotten an O-line guy to make both RBs look even better.

 

Keep hating though.

 

Bills fans need to read the "sour grapes" fable. It would do the city a world of good. It is amazing how we can want something so bad, support a player and then turn on him like a pack of wild dogs when they want to get paid or make a mistake off the field.

Funny you would put something in there about the run on sentence, I was thinking that. Now, about the touchdowns, possibly you didnt watch a whole lot of the games as you pointed out the touchdowns. I left that out because anybody that watched the games would know that Lynch would get the majority of his touches near or in the redzone. Or do you suppose this geek wouldnt realize that. Dont think they have those stats anywhere?! This was due to the fact that Freddy is a much better pass blocker and receiver. He would get a majority of the touches to bring it up the feild while Lynch would get the enzone touches.

Not even going to go into Lynch's persona. Never liked him due to that alone. I think the problem here may be your mancrush you had for him and quiet possibly your boy moved away. Not our fauld he sucked it up here the last 10-12 games!

[BillsVet]

Ok ... there is therapy available.

 

Obviously, at the start of last season Chan had his 'sorting hat' on as he tried to figure out who would make up the future of the Bills. Trent had fooled plenty of us ... Marshawn might be up for a trade and that grandpa playing RT maybe he could do more than snore. On defense we had that kid from Penn State ... nah, no one was so stupid to think he had talent.

 

I cannot be angry with the actions of either Gailey nor Nix for their first season here. They inherited a mess plus we continued to have more injuries than we deserved with both Wood and Bell still not completely recovered from 2009 injuries.

 

This is the year that I want to see our offense jell and like many I hope to see some CJ mixed in even though I believe Jackson is the better starter.

 

GO BILLS ... when's this deal going to be done?

 

Gailey may a straight shooter, but he's made numerous mistakes a NFL HC shouldn't. First, he picked the wrong QB and proceeded to learn it after 2 games. I can't remember the last time, save Cleveland a few years ago, any NFL team made such a quick starting QB hook.

 

Second, he started Spiller in the first game and then couldn't get him 100 carries his rookie season. Apparently, the "pass catchin' runnin' back" couldn't be fit into offensive genius Gailey's offense.

 

It doesn't take an entire season to figure out what is on the roster. Most of that should be done in the off-season and training camp, especially for a veteran HC with so many years of NFL experience.

[fansince88]

Gailey may a straight shooter, but he's made numerous mistakes a NFL HC shouldn't. First, he picked the wrong QB and proceeded to learn it after 2 games. I can't remember the last time, save Cleveland a few years ago, any NFL team made such a quick starting QB hook.

 

Second, he started Spiller in the first game and then couldn't get him 100 carries his rookie season. Apparently, the "pass catchin' runnin' back" couldn't be fit into offensive genius Gailey's offense.

 

It doesn't take an entire season to figure out what is on the roster. Most of that should be done in the off-season and training camp, especially for a veteran HC with so many years of NFL experience.

And this year if we have a season then the offseason will be short. Glad this isnt his first year coaching this team

[thewildrabbit]

My recollection is that not only did all the tape on Trent not suck, but that a great talent evaluator and user Bill Walsh went out of his way to sing Edwards praises and that was a big part of why the Bills drafted him in the first place.

 

Edwards showed some very good stuff as a rookie such that his pre-season performance not only in practice but on the field won him the #2 job behind JP. I think folks were impressed with his initial work and I do not remember any wail and cry when he won the back-up job.

 

Add to this that when JP got Wilforked in the first game of the season while Edwards did not lead the team to a victory over one of the best teams in the league he clearly impressed most observers. I remember rather than being a stumble bum who made folks ask what the heck was Bill Walsh and the other "professionals" thinking that Edwards demonstrated on the field as a rookie against one of the best Ds in football:

 

1. A good head and football sense which was likely why he so impressed Walsh.

2. A quick arm and very good accuracy (I remember being frightened for his health when he hung in the pocket but got the ball out for some nice completions as a rookie.

3. Even better he proved suprisingly nimble and fleet of foot as a rookie.

 

My recollection is that Edwards impressed outside observers alot with his early play but ultimately two things happened:

 

1. His luck ran out and he got nailed a couple of times with his gutsy late throws and got knocked out of the line-up with a wrist injury.

2. Not only did he lose PT to the wrist injury as a rookie but he got blasted and ended up with a concussion which cost him a couple of games after he led the team to a great undefeated start against weak competition (but still players with NFL size and speed) in his second year.

 

It was a combination of him being gunshy after some huge pro hits, him proving to be injury prone as a pro after

being good enough to impress Bill Walsh (who has forgotten more about football than you or I will ever know) evaluating his play- I define injury prone as missing PT to three separate injuries in 2 seasons- Edwards went down with a wrist, a concussion, and an unexplained injury which cost him valuable pre-season time his second year, AND the big thing in my mind the Bills offense was pretty clueless under Jauron who never showed the ability to hire a good UC even when he was NFL HC of the year behind a great D and good luck.

 

The Bills took a player with pretty good skills and who may had some bad luck prior to his draft and then ruined this player in terms of development.

 

The fact that you simply disregard a bunch of history in drawing your conclusion that the professional were out to lunch actually makes me question who is out to lunch here.

 

Edwards had fatal flaws which made him not a good choice to be a franchise QB. However, in his brief stint til being injury prone caught up with him he was quite impressive so it is not a mystery to me that the professional evaluators got fooled.

And to add, the galactic-ly bad talent evaluators in Buffalo forgot when they drafted Edwards, was that he was injured often while at Stanford behind some very bad lines there. So the thought was, hey, he took a pounding at Stanford, lets see if he can take more behind some bad lines in Buffalo. He did and the result was another lamb for slaughter.

 

Edwards at Stanford played in a west coast system and they tried to turn him into a 5 & 7 step drop QB in a Mike Martz type offense, all they did was try and fit a square peg into a round hole....that's what you get with moronic coaching

 

Gailey may a straight shooter, but he's made numerous mistakes a NFL HC shouldn't. First, he picked the wrong QB and proceeded to learn it after 2 games. I can't remember the last time, save Cleveland a few years ago, any NFL team made such a quick starting QB hook.

 

Second, he started Spiller in the first game and then couldn't get him 100 carries his rookie season. Apparently, the "pass catchin' runnin' back" couldn't be fit into offensive genius Gailey's offense.

 

It doesn't take an entire season to figure out what is on the roster. Most of that should be done in the off-season and training camp, especially for a veteran HC with so many years of NFL experience.

Shhhh, you will rile up the homers

 

 

They don't wanna hear the Bills hired another bum, even tho he was fired in his last job as OC in KC. The Bills have a policy to hire people who get fired and then hire them AND promote them to a higher level. Wilson did the exact same thing with Tom Donahoe as president.