Brand J Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I found this Q&A very interesting... 5 – Chris, I’m a little concerned about some of the rule changes I’ve read about. According to an article I read online recently: The following hits on players in a “defenseless posture” are now illegal: • A player in the act or just after throwing a pass. • A quarterback any time after a change of possession (i.e. turnover) If a player in the act of throwing a pass is considered a defenseless player, does that mean that a QB can drop back with his arm cocked back (statue of liberty style) and then get as much time as he wants to pass while no defenders are allowed to hit him? Are defenders allowed to try to knock the ball out of the QB’s hand and cause a fumble as he’s winding up? Are QB’s basically going to be able to pump fake any time a defender’s about to hit them to force a penalty if the defender touches him? Also, if a QB throws a pick, is he still allowed to try to tackle the player that’s returning the INT? That sounds a little unfair if the QB is trying to tackle the ball carrier and nobody on the returning team is allowed to block him. Any clarification you can provide would be appreciated as I haven’t been able to find any in-debth description of how these rules are phrased or would be interpreted by officials. Thanks for your help. -Brendan (Las Vegas) CB: On the plus side defensive players will no longer be penalized for grazing of quarterbacks’ helmets. That should avoid some of the ticky tack penalties that we saw last year. Defenders can no longer leave their feet and launch themselves up into an opponent delivering a blow to the helmet with any part of his own helmet. (15 yard penalty) And yes the definition of the defenseless player was expanded to include those players: -throwing a pass -attempting or completing a catch without having time to ward off or avoid contact -a runner whose forward progress has been stopped by a tackler -kickoff or punt returners while ball is in the air -kickers or punters during a return -a QB during a change of possession -a player that receivers a blind side hit from a blocker moving toward his own end zone. These defenseless player definitions are not black and white, they will involve judgment calls on the part of the officials, and as we saw with the horse collar tackling, it took a while for the refs to have a good handle on that. Regarding your question about the statue of liberty tactic, if it’s clearly not part of a “normal football play” it’s probably not going to be in the official’s judgment to be a defenseless player. And again the defenseless player deals mainly with hits to the head and neck area with the helmet or forearm primarily. With respect to a QB defending an INT, or a punter or kicker defending a return, what the aim of those players being included in the defenseless player definition is to prevent opponents from taking a free shot on the opposing QB on a change of possession. A good amount of the time the quarterback has no chance of making a play on the ball after a pick, but opposing linemen usually take a shot at them anyway by “blocking them to the ground.” If a quarterback chooses to try to make a play on the ball then he’s fair game as I read it. I have a few problems with those issues in bold... 1) You can no longer hit a QB who's in the act of throwing the football?! Seriously?! This is how fumbles occur. These are exciting times for the defense and to take away the ability to hit a player while he is passing is absolutely absurd. Possibly the worst amendment to hit the rulebook. Ever. 2) A well timed hit after a receiver catches the ball, thereby dislodging the ball from the receiver, is no longer legal. The receiver must be given time to ward off the contact. Terrible. 3) A runner whose forward progress has been stopped? This is so subjective that it's ridiculous. How many times have we seen a player get hit, forward progress stopped, no whistle, get hit again, and break through those tackles to daylight...? If a player is hit and no longer moving forward, but the whistle has yet to blow, another defender should absolutely have the right to hit that player again. This is the NFL, players break tackles ALL the time. Hence the phrase, "I just kept my feet moving". 4) Are kickers and punters not football players? Are they not allowed to tackle the returner? Anybody on that field is fair game to be hit. 5) A player who receives a blindside hit from a player moving toward his own endzone... This is obviously the, "Hines Ward Rule". Now you can't block a player unless he looks at you. Great. Roger Goodell, how long will it be until your league is comparable to flag football, or two hand touch? You are taking away much of the game's physicality and some of these amendments are absolutely unnecessary. The game is getting worse ladies and gentlemen, not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 You can't launch or hit them helmet to helmet. Rage unwarranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Watch a whole bunch of offensive records get broken this year (if we have a season)since you can't the QB as he throws or hit the receiver as he is catching the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I found this Q&A very interesting... I have a few problems with those issues in bold... 1) You can no longer hit a QB who's in the act of throwing the football?! Seriously?! This is how fumbles occur. These are exciting times for the defense and to take away the ability to hit a player while he is passing is absolutely absurd. Possibly the worst amendment to hit the rulebook. Ever. 2) A well timed hit after a receiver catches the ball, thereby dislodging the ball from the receiver, is no longer legal. The receiver must be given time to ward off the contact. Terrible. 3) A runner whose forward progress has been stopped? This is so subjective that it's ridiculous. How many times have we seen a player get hit, forward progress stopped, no whistle, get hit again, and break through those tackles to daylight...? If a player is hit and no longer moving forward, but the whistle has yet to blow, another defender should absolutely have the right to hit that player again. This is the NFL, players break tackles ALL the time. Hence the phrase, "I just kept my feet moving". 4) Are kickers and punters not football players? Are they not allowed to tackle the returner? Anybody on that field is fair game to be hit. 5) A player who receives a blindside hit from a player moving toward his own endzone... This is obviously the, "Hines Ward Rule". Now you can't block a player unless he looks at you. Great. Roger Goodell, how long will it be until your league is comparable to flag football, or two hand touch? You are taking away much of the game's physicality and some of these amendments are absolutely unnecessary. The game is getting worse ladies and gentlemen, not better. I understand the need to reduce concussions, but most of these rules appear to do very little to reduce concussions, etc. Eliminating head to head hits, and other such "cheap shots" with long suspensions and fines will do it. But not hitting a WR right after he catches the ball, and not hitting a RB after his forward progress is allegedly stopped. These are terrible changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 These new rules leave a lot of room for referees' judgment calls. And that's a really ****ty thing to be depending on, based on their handling of the judgment call situations they already have. Way too much power in the hands of the zebras. I missed several games last year and wasn't bothered in the least, which even 5 years ago was unthinkable. Right now my continued interest in the NFL is questionable, and that's not even factoring in anything about the lockout b/c I haven't really followed any of it. The game has become far too litigious --- on the field such that any sense of fun has been sucked out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Watch a whole bunch of offensive records get broken this year (if we have a season)since you can't the QB as he throws or hit the receiver as he is catching the ball. Again, YOU CAN HIT THEM, just not in a handful of ways. Doing away with the "can't even touch the qbs helmet" rule means you can actually touch him in the act of throwing more this year than previous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 These new rules leave a lot of room for referees' judgment calls. And that's a really ****ty thing to be depending on, based on their handling of the judgment call situations they already have. Way too much power in the hands of the zebras. Exactly. The more leeway in the rulebook, the most inconsistant and unfair the games will be. Every year it gets a little close to me not caring if there is football in Buffalo or anywhere else on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 Again, YOU CAN HIT THEM, just not in a handful of ways. Doing away with the "can't even touch the qbs helmet" rule means you can actually touch him in the act of throwing more this year than previous. According to these definitions, you CAN NOT hit them. It explicitly states, "a defender can't hit a QB in the act of throwing a pass, or right after the QB throws the pass." You also have to give the receiver time to avoid the oncoming hit, immediately after he has caught the ball. These are new amendments. We're not talking about launching yourself at these players, helmet to helmet, or whatever, those rules already existed. The "Touching of the QB's Helmet" rule was taken away to do away with the ticky tack personal foul calls that directly affect games. Sacks weren't sacks, because a player's hand may have grazed the QB's helmet. Again, these rules are not how you can't hit a player, but when you can't hit a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) According to these definitions, you CAN NOT hit them. It explicitly states, "a defender can't hit a QB in the act of throwing a pass, or right after the QB throws the pass." You also have to give the receiver time to avoid the oncoming hit, immediately after he has caught the ball. These are new amendments. We're not talking about launching yourself at these players, helmet to helmet, or whatever, those rules already existed. The "Touching of the QB's Helmet" rule was taken away to do away with the ticky tack personal foul calls that directly affect games. Sacks weren't sacks, because a player's hand may have grazed the QB's helmet. Again, these rules are not how you can't hit a player, but when you can't hit a player. It falls under defenseless player rules, with defined hits that have been on the books for quite some time. It is governing hits to the head/neck with a helmet or forearm in it's simplest summary. You can hit a non-prone ball carrier in the head, you cannot hit a defenseless player in the head because they cannot protect themselves. This is a tweak in who falls under that umbrella. Edited June 10, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Yeah...whatever. But probably a third of Bruce Smith's sacks are personal fouls under the new rules of the past few years, which is bull ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I found this Q&A very interesting... I have a few problems with those issues in bold... 1) You can no longer hit a QB who's in the act of throwing the football?! Seriously?! This is how fumbles occur. These are exciting times for the defense and to take away the ability to hit a player while he is passing is absolutely absurd. Possibly the worst amendment to hit the rulebook. Ever. 2) A well timed hit after a receiver catches the ball, thereby dislodging the ball from the receiver, is no longer legal. The receiver must be given time to ward off the contact. Terrible. 3) A runner whose forward progress has been stopped? This is so subjective that it's ridiculous. How many times have we seen a player get hit, forward progress stopped, no whistle, get hit again, and break through those tackles to daylight...? If a player is hit and no longer moving forward, but the whistle has yet to blow, another defender should absolutely have the right to hit that player again. This is the NFL, players break tackles ALL the time. Hence the phrase, "I just kept my feet moving". 4) Are kickers and punters not football players? Are they not allowed to tackle the returner? Anybody on that field is fair game to be hit. 5) A player who receives a blindside hit from a player moving toward his own endzone... This is obviously the, "Hines Ward Rule". Now you can't block a player unless he looks at you. Great. Roger Goodell, how long will it be until your league is comparable to flag football, or two hand touch? You are taking away much of the game's physicality and some of these amendments are absolutely unnecessary. The game is getting worse ladies and gentlemen, not better. The rules don't say you can't hit defenseless players, it just limits the kind of hits that can be delivered: "An illegal hit on a defenseless player is when the initial force of contact by a players head, shoulder, or forearm is to the head or neck area." I think that pretty much takes care of all of your concerns. You can hit a QB in the act of throwing. You can hit a receiver just as he catches the ball. You can hit a runner after his forward progress has been stopped. You can hit a kicker or punter. You can block players who are not looking at you. All you can't do is use your head, shoulder or forearm to deliver a blow to the head or neck. If something sounds too crazy to be true, it usually isn't. According to these definitions, you CAN NOT hit them. It explicitly states, "a defender can't hit a QB in the act of throwing a pass, or right after the QB throws the pass." You also have to give the receiver time to avoid the oncoming hit, immediately after he has caught the ball. These are new amendments. We're not talking about launching yourself at these players, helmet to helmet, or whatever, those rules already existed. The "Touching of the QB's Helmet" rule was taken away to do away with the ticky tack personal foul calls that directly affect games. Sacks weren't sacks, because a player's hand may have grazed the QB's helmet. Again, these rules are not how you can't hit a player, but when you can't hit a player. Wrong, read the rule, the whole rule: Hits on Defenseless Players NFL rules provide special protection to defenseless players, by prohibiting (a) hits delivered to their head or neck area by an opponent with his helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder, and (b) hits delivered by an opponent with his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/"hairline" parts) against any part of the defenseless player's body (i.e., "butting, spearing, or ramming" a defenseless player.) Defenseless players are defined as (a) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (b) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; © a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (d) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (e) a player on the ground at the end of a play. 1. Use of Helmet and Facemask. An opponent must not use his facemask or other part of his helmet against a player who is in a virtually defenseless posture-for example, (a) by forcibly hitting the defenseless player's head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him, or (b) by lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily making forcible contact with the "hairline" or forehead part of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player's body. 2. "Launching" and "Dip and Rip."A defensive player must not "launch" himself (spring forward and upward) into a defenseless player, or otherwise strike him in a way that causes the defensive player's helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the defenseless player's head, neck, or face-even if the initial contact of the defender's helmet or facemask is lower than the defenseless player's neck. (Examples: a defender buries his facemask into a defenseless player's high chest area, but the defender's trajectory as he leaps into the defenseless player causes the defender's helmet to strike the defenseless player violently in the head or face; or a defender, using a face-on posture or with his head slightly lowered, hits a defenseless player in an area below the defenseless player's neck, then the defender's head moves upward, resulting in strong contact by the defender's mask or helmet with the defenseless player's head, neck, or face (one example is the so-called "dip and rip" technique.) These provisions do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on an opponent. Special protection against blows delivered to the head by an opponent is also provided to a receiver who has just completed a catch, a kicker/punter during the kick or during the return, and to the recipient of a "blindside" block. Receiver Catching or Attempting to Catch a Pass 1. Receiver Who Has Completed a Catch. If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player's helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver's head, neck, or face-even if the initial contact of the defender's helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver's neck. 2. Kicker/Punter During Kick or Return. During a kick or during a return, it is a foul if the initial force of the contact by a defender's helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of a kicker/punter. 3. "Blindside" Block. It is an illegal "blindside" block if the initial force of the contact by a blocker's helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of an opponent when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and approaches his opponent from behind or from the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 The rules don't say you can't hit defenseless players, it just limits the kind of hits that can be delivered: "An illegal hit on a defenseless player is when the initial force of contact by a players head, shoulder, or forearm is to the head or neck area." I think that pretty much takes care of all of your concerns. You can hit a QB in the act of throwing. You can hit a receiver just as he catches the ball. You can hit a runner after his forward progress has been stopped. You can hit a kicker or punter. You can block players who are not looking at you. All you can't do is use your head, shoulder or forearm to deliver a blow to the head or neck. If something sounds too crazy to be true, it usually isn't. Wrong, read the rule, the whole rule: [/font][/color] Come on Mickey! It's more fun to misinterpret the new rules and bemoan the feminization of the NFL. Don't cheapen our righteous indignation with your clear-headed explanation of these changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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