qdawg in philly Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 This is a different type of situation than the POZ one. The thing with Whitner is, we already have a better starter on the team. Bryan Scott. So why get into a bidding war over this guy? He was a hard hitter, but whiffed many times as well. I bowed my head in disappointment many times when Whitner went for a big hit, only to bounce of as the opposing player just kept running, he never wrapped up when tackling ...he struggled mightily in coverage, and looked awful when asked to cover tight ends. Scott is better and coverage, and is still very big and a solid tackler. We also signed a promising looking SS in Searcy, along with talk of Aaron Williams being a possible safety. Not to mention Whitner is a douche. Actually if I had to pick one of the two to sign it would be POZ for depth, it's a bigger position of need (but again only at the right contract). I agree with this. They made Scott a lb because of injuries. So as you see he can play the run. As for coverage, people have to remember the Chargers game. They played Scott on Gates and he did an excellent job. I just really think we could do better. Sign Poz and Florence! It's that simple!!
T master Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 It depends on what his price is, if he wants elite money then no, but if he is reasonable then yes. DITTO !!!!! IT'S UP TO HIS EGO !!!
Pirate Angel Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 No....I don't see a drop off in talent if we play Wilson, Scott, or one of the rookies. Maybe strong safety by committee. I just watched the Pittsburgh game rerun and I specifically keyed on him, and he was awful. I couldn't believe he didn't get benched during that game, Heath Miller owned him. I use to think that it just looked like he got beat because he hustles to make a tackle that another guy got beat on or we where exploited on a blitz....no he clearly got beat by the man he was responsible for not once or twice but for the entire game. I know Heath is a pretty darn good TE but there is no reason for Donte to get juked out by him allowing 3 yards of separation. I even used the excuse that he has a lot of ground to cover between him and the line of scrimmage but no they weren't short dump off passes or quick slants they where 10-20 yard passes. If he didn't demand such a large salary I would sign him and let him compete but IMO he is not a starting caliber SS.
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Question away...Even though you don't offer any reasoning behind your "questioning". So are you saying you didn't watch Whitner miss tackle after tackle? Get beat badly on almost every throw to a TE? Have you watched the two? Scott actually took the starting job away from Whitner in 2009 (Thank you Fewell), Scott had 16 starts between 2008-2009 even at times when Donte was healthy (Ok, a couple of those were at LB)...There was good reason for that. As others have pointed out Nix doesn't seem to have any interest in bringing him back, so I am guessing he doesn't feel too much differently... Indications are that they offered him a contract, so Nix must have some interest.
Malazan Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Donte has already indicated he is looking for more money than the Bills are interested in offering. He is another one of those Players like Peters where a team will pick him up thinking he will fill a hole, and he will, but at way beyond his value.
Cam Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Ok, we should resign Poz because he's a solid talent. But Whitner has a big mouth an we are pretty stacked at safety so I say let him sign some lucrative deal with some idiotic team and float around the field like he did with the Bills for the past two years
stony Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Question away...Even though you don't offer any reasoning behind your "questioning". So are you saying you didn't watch Whitner miss tackle after tackle? Get beat badly on almost every throw to a TE? Have you watched the two? Scott actually took the starting job away from Whitner in 2009 (Thank you Fewell), Scott had 16 starts between 2008-2009 even at times when Donte was healthy (Ok, a couple of those were at LB)...There was good reason for that. As others have pointed out Nix doesn't seem to have any interest in bringing him back, so I am guessing he doesn't feel too much differently... Taking a safety in the 4th round isn't exactly a vote of confidence for Bryan Scott's talents. And I think Nix would like him back, he's just not going to bend over to his demands and play his games through the media.
EldaBillsFan Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 no...and i actually like whitner....but this was a statement draft...they want to mold this team a different...its easier to brainwash than it is to reprogram
tennesseeboy Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 If we had players to replace him....why didn't they replace him? Sign Whitner, sign Poz and move on to a winning season. Sooner or later you have to actually play the best hand you have. I remember people saying good riddance to Peters, and we haven't "replaced" him and we could probably field a better team than wehave right now with players we have let go.
RyanC883 Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Same thing I said for Poz. It all depends on the salary. Donte is a good safety. He is not #9 overall good but he is a solid player. If people could forget where he was drafted and just focus on him being a lunch pail type player he would be just another one of the guys. As usual with Bufrfalo fans we will try to run a solid player out of town just because he wasn't an all star safety because he was drafted at the #9 spot. It's not his fault our developmentally disabled front office picked Donte at #9. I agree. He is a good safety, and as long as he is seeking money equivilant to his value, I would definetly re-sign him. He can also help the younger DB's.
Turbosrrgood Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Taking a safety in the 4th round isn't exactly a vote of confidence for Bryan Scott's talents. And I think Nix would like him back, he's just not going to bend over to his demands and play his games through the media. I am not saying Scott is a superstar safety, I am saying he can give is more consistent play than Whitner did. He has shown this when he's played. As far as the 4th round pick, when you lose a safety (which the Bills seem to be ready to do with Whitner) then you have to pick another on up as depth or an eventually starting prospect...I can't read anything into it more than .that... Indications are that they offered him a contract, so Nix must have some interest. Yeah, they offered him a low ball contract which they knew had no chance of being accepted, as an insurance policy in the unlikely case that the new CBA keeps him a RFA. Since they offered no negotiations after that I would say it signals very little interest... Edited June 9, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Yeah, they offered him a low ball contract which they knew had no chance of being accepted, as an insurance policy in the unlikely case that the new CBA keeps him a RFA. Since they offered no negotiations after that I would say it signals very little interest... They had contract negotiations, thus offering him a contract, on an extension prior to issuing him an RFA tender before the CBA expired. They haven't been able to negotiate since due to the lockout. It's unknown what amounts were being negotiated except that Donte claimed it wasn't a fair offer, so to call it a "low ball" contract is speculative. According to this the offer was approx $5M: Whitner's five-year contract is up and he hasn't been bashful about expressing pessimism concerning ongoing negotiations. The Bills would like to keep Whitner and are believed to be offering him a deal that would average about $5 million a season. But he'd like to be paid like a top-five defensive back -- about $7 million a season. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/14476559 A $5M offer tells me they think he's a decent option. Here's a thread on it: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/124958-dontes-offer/
Turbosrrgood Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) They had contract negotiations, thus offering him a contract, on an extension prior to issuing him an RFA tender before the CBA expired. They haven't been able to negotiate since due to the lockout. It's unknown what amounts were being negotiated except that Donte claimed it wasn't a fair offer, so to call it a "low ball" contract is speculative. According to this the offer was approx $5M: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/14476559 A $5M offer tells me they think he's a decent option. Here's a thread on it: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/124958-dontes-offer/ Equal amount of speculation in the article you referred to. I also didn't attach a dollar amount, I said low ball...which means lower than the anticipated actual value. I don't expect the Bills to out right cold shoulder their first round pick from a few years ago, but to me its clear they aren't too high on him either, hence the benching a few years ago, the 2nd and 4th round picks this year, and no sincere desire expressed to keep him other than presented by speculative reporting... Either way this is ALL speculation unless Nix says exactly what he plans to do...which he won't. As far as I can tell he is doing the right thing IMO, which means moving on without Whitner... Edited June 9, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Equal amount of speculation in the article you referred to. I also didn't attach a dollar amount, I said low ball...which means lower than the anticipated actual value. I don't expect the Bills to out right cold shoulder their first round pick from a few years ago, but to me its clear they aren't too high on him either, hence the benching a few years ago, the 2nd and 4th round picks this year, and no sincere desire expressed to keep him other than presented by speculative reporting... Either way this is ALL speculation unless Nix says exactly what he plans to do...which he won't. As far as I can tell he is doing the right thing IMO, which means moving on without Whitner... Forgive me if I value the speculation from a source such as CBS Sports or Tim Graham over yours. Your low ball comment only referenced the RFA tender, I was merely pointing out that it was reported that there had been ongoing negotiations throughout the season. Therefore there must be some price that they are willing to bring him back at and feeling that the players they have on the roster currently are not better than him. Not sure how his being benched in '09 relates to Chan or Buddy's feelings of him as he started all 16 games in 2010 with them as coach & GM. I'm okay with the fact that a contract likely won't be reached and Donte moves on. In my opinion he is an above average player, probably looking for too much money. I assume that would result in them finding another SS through free agency as there currently isn't a viable starting SS on the roster beyond Whitner. Wilson is a FS in this defense in my opinion and I think the pick of Searcy in the 4th round is just as much an indictment on Scott, who hasn't started a game at SS since 2008, as it is on Whitner.
Turbosrrgood Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Forgive me if I value the speculation from a source such as CBS Sports or Tim Graham over yours. Your low ball comment only referenced the RFA tender, I was merely pointing out that it was reported that there had been ongoing negotiations throughout the season. Therefore there must be some price that they are willing to bring him back at and feeling that the players they have on the roster currently are not better than him. Not sure how his being benched in '09 relates to Chan or Buddy's feelings of him as he started all 16 games in 2010 with them as coach & GM. I'm okay with the fact that a contract likely won't be reached and Donte moves on. In my opinion he is an above average player, probably looking for too much money. I assume that would result in them finding another SS through free agency as there currently isn't a viable starting SS on the roster beyond Whitner. Wilson is a FS in this defense in my opinion and I think the pick of Searcy in the 4th round is just as much an indictment on Scott, who hasn't started a game at SS since 2008, as it is on Whitner. I certainly don't expect you to value my "speculation" over anyone else. You seemed to be knocking my perspective on Whitner because I was speculating, then just provided more speculation to prove your point. I am just saying, virtually anything we say here regarding this is speculation. It will be interesting to see it play out, if the lockout ever ends. Also, Scott started every game he was healthy for in 2009 (9 GS, a few of those were at LB) only being replaced due to injury. Whitner only started 8. I respect your opinion to consider the drafting of Searcy an equal indictment on Scott. But Scott is almost certain to be on the Bills roster this year, and is very likely the starter (more speculation). I personally take the drafting of a SS like Searcy, and another possible Safety in Williams, as insurance/depth for the likely hood that Whitner won't be back, and that the Bills will be in need of depth. I don't think Scott is "great" or our SS of the future, but I think he is a more balanced and consistent player than Whitner. I don't think Whitner should get a 4M a year contract, let alone 5M, or 7M lol. Edited June 9, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) I certainly don't expect you to value my "speculation" over anyone else. You seemed to be knocking my perspective on Whitner because I was speculating, then just provided more speculation to prove your point. I am just saying, virtually anything we say here regarding this is speculation. It will be interesting to see it play out, if the lockout ever ends. Also, Scott started at safety for 5 games I believe in 2009 only being replaced due to injury, he then came back and played LB. I respect your opinion to consider the drafting of Searcy an equal indictment on Scott. But Scott is almost certain to be on the Bills roster this year, and is very likely the starter (more speculation). I personally take the drafting of a SS like Searcy, and another possible Safety in Williams, as insurance/depth for the likely hood that Whitner won't be back, and that the Bills will be in need of depth. I don't think Scott is "great" or our SS of the future, but I think he is a more balanced and consistent player than Whitner. After further investigation you were right in this regard, Scott started the first 3 games in 2009 at SS before being injured. He lost his starting position while injured to George Wilson. He later started 6 games at LB. Whitner played FS at the beginning of the season before having thumb surgery. What a mess of injuries that team was. Edited June 9, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson
Turbosrrgood Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) After further investigation you were right in this regard, Scott started the first 3 games in 2009 at SS before being injured. He lost his starting position while injured to George Wilson. He later started 6 games at LB. Whitner played FS at the beginning of the season before having thumb surgery. What a mess of injuries that team was. Yeah, I may like Scott as a stop gap SS...but if we are using him at LB, well we saw what happens to that team... Edit: Just curious as to where you found out exactly who started what position in how many games ? I only found more general starting info, and was going off of that and memory. You seem to have a knack for finding exact information, even for obscure topics. Edited June 10, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 This is a different type of situation than the POZ one. The thing with Whitner is, we already have a better starter on the team. Bryan Scott. So why get into a bidding war over this guy? He was a hard hitter, but whiffed many times as well. I bowed my head in disappointment many times when Whitner went for a big hit, only to bounce of as the opposing player just kept running, he never wrapped up when tackling ...he struggled mightily in coverage, and looked awful when asked to cover tight ends. Scott is better and coverage, and is still very big and a solid tackler. We also signed a promising looking SS in Searcy, along with talk of Aaron Williams being a possible safety. Not to mention Whitner is a douche. I'm 100% witcha on Whitner's tackling (or the lack thereof). He loves to back-tackle, he rarely seems to hit and wrap. And yeah, he just isn't big enough to cover a tight end. That said, he's a decent player and we need to start keeping our decent players, as long as they don't go nuts. Why do you say Whitner is a douche? He talks too much. That's a common failing of brash young men. I wish someone would persuade him not to tweet. What has Whitner said that's really douchy though, not just brash or braggy? Now Bruce Gradkowski on Cutler b4 the specifics of the injury or anything were known, I thought that was douchy. Yet folks around here seem to think he'd be great as a QB here.
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