O-Line ranks 12th

[Bananahands]

An interesting read here about the number of sacks a team allows, relative to the number of times they were pressured (being hits, hurries, and sacks). It found that for the 237 times Buffalo's line was pressured, we allowed only 33 sacks, or 13.92% of the time. Not bad considering the amount of injuries.

 

However, should this be attributed to the line, or Fitzpatrick's quick arm and smarts?

 

Chris Brown's thoughts as well.

 

Bananahands

[tennesseeboy]

very interesting...Fitz can get some of the credit, but it does make me start to rethink how bad I thought the O-line actually was last year. Thanks for the post.

[Chilly]

Some fodder for the "OL is the only way to build a team" crowd. Yesterday's ProFootballFocus article on Surrendering Pressure:

 

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/06/surrendering-pressure/

 

In short, one of the teams that made the Superbowl was the worst team in the entire league in giving up pressure on the QB. Green Bay ranked 12th. Neither was in the top-10.

 

And the bottom 3 for offensive line, PIT, CHI, and TB, all made the playoffs.

 

Compare this to how the QB performs under pressure:

 

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/16/pressure-reveals/

 

In short, these findings seem to indicate the really good QBs mask the weakness of the offensive line, and that even with poor pass protection, they can still win. Given that FItzpatrick was #16 under pressure, and Edwards is terrible (according to my own biased assessment), a lot of what we felt last year could probably be attributed to that upgrade.

 

To me, it's more important to have a well balanced football team in today's NFL than overly dominant lines. I think these findings are in line with that theory. Unfortunately, that means it's a lot more complicated than "build great lines and win".

 

 

 

**EDIT: Mods, I was typing this up while the other thread was made about this series of articles. Can you merge it in to this one?

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/130848-o-line-ranks-12th/

 

Thanks

Edited June 7, 2011 by BlueFire

[eball]

All jokes and snide comments aside, I am genuinely interested in hearing the perspective of our "build the OL at all costs" contingent after reading this report.

[1B4IDie]

Welcome to 2011.

Our offensive line has two Top 50 picks on it.

A young, athletic LT that is a solid starter and if he can develop further can be better than just "solid."

 

The RT and LG positions have seen a lot of turn over but Hariston looks to be a good fit to eventually plug into RT, but we'll see.

 

So "our offensive line is horrible" was true in 2008.

 

However things change and I think ranking the Bills O-Line in the 12-16 range in the league in 2011 seems about right.

 

If Hariston pans out and Bell continues to improve Top 10 O-line in the league is a possibility.

 

Yes Fitz is better than the horrible QBs we have had and deserves credit for having no conscience and just throwing the ball no matter what happens in his face. The O-Line isn't as bad as it used to be.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Why So Serious?

[hammie65]

O-line, D-line, special teams, receiving corp, are all important parts but not always equally. Teams with average offenses but spectacular defenses (and vice versa) have won divisions and bowls. It's the parts as a whole and how they work together and how they are coached that makes winners. We strengthened our D and our receiving corp have become a very good group, now we need to address special teams and correct mistakes we made there and in other areas. Don't forget injuries and their effects on a team and how unpredictable they can be as well. It's rarely one side or another in this sport.

 

I should know, I'm also a Colts fan and they've rarely been strong on all sides and they are always in the mix. Even the Pats have been weak in certain areas a lot of the time, they just have a very smart coach\coaching staff and front office.

[Smiley Dear]

I really don't get how how these stats are a reflection of line play. The authors analysis is flawed. (sacks allowed)/(sacks+qb knock downs+ hurries) only indicates how well your qb gets rid of the ball in the face of pressure. A better analysis for how well the oline protected the qb would be (sacks allowed+knock downs+ hurries)/total pass plays. That would tell us how often a defender got to the QB as a percentage of pass plays. Besides, everyone knows that run blocking was the big weakness for our o-line last year. So saying our pass pro was ok is just sticking your head in the sand.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Camel's Toe

[1B4IDie]

I really don't get how how these stats are a reflection of line play. The authors analysis is flawed. (sacks allowed)/(sacks+qb knock downs+ hurries) only indicates how well your qb gets rid of the ball in the face of pressure. A better analysis for how well the oline protected the qb would be (sacks allowed+knock downs+ hurries)/total pass plays. That would tell us how often a defender got to the QB as a percentage of pass plays. Besides, everyone knows that run blocking was the big weakness for our o-line last year. So saying our pass pro was ok is just sticking your head in the sand.

What's funny is ignoring reality and continuously restate that the O-line sucks would be more akin to sticking your head in the sand.

[AthensThunder]

Are they talking about the O-Line we started with,or the O-Line in the middle of the year,or the O-line we ended up with.

There were not a few but several O-Lines for the Bills.

We also had more than a few who had no knowledge of the offense when they were thrown in

We now have one of the youngest O-lines in the league.We are consuderably bigger and stronger.

[thewildrabbit]

Yea well, you guys gush all you want about how good the O line is and how much they improved....

 

Never-mind the fact that when the pocket broke down Fitz had a yard per rush as good as Mick Vick at 6.7 YPR . That he was running for his life in some games, he was still able to make something positive out of nothing many times.

 

That he would find the open receiver and he had the ball out in about 3 seconds most plays. That deep ball to Stevie Johnson only took 3.5 seconds before it left Fitz's hands.

 

Never-mind the fact that Fred Jackson makes 2 tacklers miss before he hits the line.

 

 

 

The reason why that line didn't give up as many sacks or pressures is because the QB play was remarkable from Ryan Fitzpatrick, not because the line suddenly blossomed into all pro's. When he didn't have an open receiver he was able to leave the pocket and make yards with his legs. Buffalo plays a tougher schedule this year and we will see if Fitz can survive the season with the current line.

[Chilly]

Yea well, you guys gush all you want about how good the O line is and how much they improved....

 

Never-mind the fact that when the pocket broke down Fitz had a yard per rush as good as Mick Vick at 6.7 YPR . That he was running for his life in some games, he was still able to make something positive out of nothing many times.

 

That he would find the open receiver and he had the ball out in about 3 seconds most plays. That deep ball to Stevie Johnson only took 3.5 seconds before it left Fitz's hands.

 

Never-mind the fact that Fred Jackson makes 2 tacklers miss before he hits the line.

 

 

 

The reason why that line didn't give up as many sacks or pressures is because the QB play was remarkable from Ryan Fitzpatrick, not because the line suddenly blossomed into all pro's. When he didn't have an open receiver he was able to leave the pocket and make yards with his legs. Buffalo plays a tougher schedule this year and we will see if Fitz can survive the season with the current line.

 

See link #2 in my post.

[AthensThunder]

OK ! You got me all confused!!!

Are you Mad because we don't have an all pro line,,,,or are you Mad because we now have a better line than we started last year with.

God forbid that we pick up some more talent durning the year that are not household names because they are young.

Edited June 8, 2011 by AthensThunder

[Orton's Arm]

All jokes and snide comments aside, I am genuinely interested in hearing the perspective of our "build the OL at all costs" contingent after reading this report.

I wouldn't go so far as to call myself part of the "build the OL at all costs" contingent, though I would like to see a strong emphasis on the lines in the future. However, I will say this:

 

Suppose Team A's OL allows one pressure all year, and that one pressure turns into a sack. Team B's OL allows pressure every single time the QB drops back to throw, and 25% of the time that pressure leads to a sack. If the methodology in the article is used to rank OL play, Team A's line would look four times worse than Team B's line. With Team A, 100% of pressures turn into sacks; whereas only 25% of pressures turn into sacks for Team B's line. It's interesting to know which teams were best at keeping pressure from turning into sacks, but that datum is absolutely useless for evaluating OL play. Useless!

[ganesh]

I really don't get how how these stats are a reflection of line play. The authors analysis is flawed. (sacks allowed)/(sacks+qb knock downs+ hurries) only indicates how well your qb gets rid of the ball in the face of pressure. A better analysis for how well the oline protected the qb would be (sacks allowed+knock downs+ hurries)/total pass plays. That would tell us how often a defender got to the QB as a percentage of pass plays. Besides, everyone knows that run blocking was the big weakness for our o-line last year. So saying our pass pro was ok is just sticking your head in the sand.

 

Completely agree...This line could not provide any penetration especially in goal-line situations. They could not dominate and punch it in as evident by the # of Rushing TDs we had last year.

[eball]

I wouldn't go so far as to call myself part of the "build the OL at all costs" contingent, though I would like to see a strong emphasis on the lines in the future. However, I will say this:

 

Suppose Team A's OL allows one pressure all year, and that one pressure turns into a sack. Team B's OL allows pressure every single time the QB drops back to throw, and 25% of the time that pressure leads to a sack. If the methodology in the article is used to rank OL play, Team A's line would look four times worse than Team B's line. With Team A, 100% of pressures turn into sacks; whereas only 25% of pressures turn into sacks for Team B's line. It's interesting to know which teams were best at keeping pressure from turning into sacks, but that datum is absolutely useless for evaluating OL play. Useless!

The report lists "total pressures" and each team's run/pass ratio is available so it would be easy enough to turn the information in this report into a more relevant evaluation. I agree it would be interesting to see.

[saundena]

Completely agree...This line could not provide any penetration especially in goal-line situations. They could not dominate and punch it in as evident by the # of Rushing TDs we had last year.

 

Agree- Maybe our sack/pressure ratio was good, but we could not open holes for our RB, nor were we able to run the ball late in the game in order to chew up clock-time. Our O line is better than many of the national talking heads would want to give us credit for, but we certainly are not great- Fitz's abilities definitely mask some of their weaknesses.

 

I think if we stay healthy and see some improvement from our players we could be a C+/B- Oline. Right now I say we are a solid C

Edited June 8, 2011 by saundena

[thewildrabbit]

See link #2 in my post.

see link #1 in this post

 

 

 

http://www.profootba...-buffalo-bills/

 

This was originally titled "Right Tackle", but given Demetrius Bell (-12.9) didn't play all that impressively for the Bills it was changed to "Offensive Tackle". In 2010, the Bills simply could not find an answer at right tackle despite giving four guys the opportunity to win the job. Erik Pears (-0.3), Cornell Green (-4.5), Mansfield Wrotto (-10.8), and Cord Howard (-19.5) all played 60+ snaps but their combined play put them third to last of all tackles.

 

Demetrius Bell – despite starting every game for the Bills at left tackle – was hardly better than his teammates on the right end of the line. Bell finished the season as the 52nd ranked tackle in 2010. He allowed the fifth most QB hits with 10, which won't win him many favors with Fitzpatrick or whoever else winds up being the quarterback in Buffalo. On a positive note, Bell was tied for ninth place among tackles by only allowing 4 sacks all year (minimum of 850 snaps).

 

Given the importance of offensive tackle play in a passing-oriented league, the Bills must address this need. Bell has at least proven himself worthy of the right tackle spot, but the Bills have to be looking for another candidate play on the opposite end. The Bills will likely use an early pick in the draft, but a free agent who could potentially be their long-term answer at left tackle is Jared Gaither. Despite missing all of 2010 to injury, when healthy Gaither has played like one of the best in the NFL. At only 25, combining Gaither with Bell could sovle the Bills' offensive tackle woes.

 

 

Fitz was injured last year and missed a game because of it, he was injured the year before and missed a game because of it, he was injured the year before that and missed a game. So in 3 years in Buffalo Fitz has been injured every year and missed games due to injuries. Trent Edwards was concussed at least 3 times in his career with Buffalo and 2 were severe and caused him to miss more then one game. The thing is.... Fitz hasn't even been the starter those 3 years and he didn't make it thru without missing a game due to injuries!

The Green Bay Packers drafted an OT with their first pick in the draft this year, why? Because Aaron Rodgers was concussed and knocked out for one game last year, what happens if he misses more then that one game with a severe concussion? The Packers don't even make the playoffs much less the super bowl, and the FO is smart enough to recognize that and drafted to protect their star player!

 

The Buffalo Bills otoh are not smart and are taking a huge gamble that Fitz will even survive the season. Look at The Dallas Cowboys, it took Romo getting injured and to miss part of the season before they decide to build the line.

 

 

Is the current Bills O line good enough...not in my opinion!

Edited June 8, 2011 by Harvey lives

[bladiebla]

Hmm, this stat needs to factor in what happened with the QB as well imho. I.e. in another article that was posted here before the draft it was discussed how poorly Fitz did when pressured. You could draw the conclusion that Fitz anticipated the sack much like TE did but reacted faster pre-emtively. I'm not convinced as of yet but I do hold good hope for how our o-line will perform this year (if there is a this year at all).

[PDaDdy]

An interesting read here about the number of sacks a team allows, relative to the number of times they were pressured (being hits, hurries, and sacks). It found that for the 237 times Buffalo's line was pressured, we allowed only 33 sacks, or 13.92% of the time. Not bad considering the amount of injuries.

 

However, should this be attributed to the line, or Fitzpatrick's quick arm and smarts?

 

Chris Brown's thoughts as well.

 

Bananahands

 

Will read the article in a bit but basing my comments purely off of the 12 overall ranking I just don't buy all of it. Fitz was very obviously better than Trent Edwards at getting the line in the right position for pass protection. What I don't understand is if the line is so good how come Freddie Jackson could only find his way into the end zone 5 times all year. Fred Jackson is a pretty darn good RB but has not shown a great nose for the end zone in his time here.

 

I am now hearing that the line is in the top 12 in the league and I have heard that Freddy is a great running back. One of these things can't be true. Either the line isn't that good or Freddie isn't that good or we would have have more rushing TDs for our starting RB.

 

Never mind. The article was for pass protection only. Please disregard the rushing comments as they are obviously not factored in to the 12th overall ranking.

 

You should probably change the title to say "O-line ranks 12th in pass protection".

[Bill from NYC]

All jokes and snide comments aside, I am genuinely interested in hearing the perspective of our "build the OL at all costs" contingent after reading this report.

 

Watch games. Fitz runs for his life and is sacked at key moments. Spiller got nowhere; they couldn't run consistently.

Levitre is good. We have no idea what we have with Wood. Bell is small and weak but he is agile so there is hope for him, but he is not one to play RT. He isn't a bruiser. RT? RG? You tell me. How do those positions shape up to you?

Sign a good free agent RT, pay Kevin Boss more than he is worth (remember we don't have a TE who can really block), and the line might be decent. If Bell doesn't finally develop, we can address LT next season.

 

Oh, and as for the comments about "balance," I agree that this is extremely important. The thing is, we don't have a glut of talent to make up for a poor OL (assuming this can be done). Look at our last 5 first round picks before Dareus. This will tell you all you need to know about a 4-12 record.