ganesh Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 If we do not re-sign Poz, then we take one step back again as we will be counting on Shepard to just replace Poz as best he can rather than suplementing our LBs, which we should be doing. The guy did lead us in tackles. This is the interesting dilemma this team has faced this decade. On one side you have an underachieving player who has not raised him game to be a super star. However, on the other hand, there is no suitable replacement in the FA market to replace him. The Bills hands are pretty much tied in keeping Poz and re-signing him to a above-expectation contract. The leverage is all in Poz's hands. Do the Bills do the same as let Clements, Williams, Winfield walk after their rookie contract and get the wrath of their fans or sign Poz to an exaggerated contract like given to Kelsay and Lee and have to continue to under perform. My bet is that the Bills will re-sign Poz to a rich contract extension and will continue to get average play out of him.
billsfreak Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 I don't think the Bills should re-sign Poz because he's just not starter material. Him getting hurt has nothing to do with it. He had an unfortunate arm break but otherwise has held up fairly well considering his tenacity on the field. I don't subscribe to the "injury prone" school of thought. In the absence of an existing condition, there is no such thing. Anyone who is high-fiving about Merriman should reign it in a bit. He's got to show he's completely healed first. If he is, he immediately becomes our best LB. That's more an indictment of how bad our LBs are, not just Poz. None of our LBs, save a healthy Merriman, would start on most NFL teams. They were bad as a group and bad as individual players last season. Probably the worst display of LBing I've seen in a long time. Like I've said repeatedly, there is much to like about Poz. His experience, leadership, and tenacity are great intangibles and are worth something in the locker room and on the field. But his LB play leaves a lot to be desired. GO BILLS!!! If the Bills let him get to the open market there will be at least half a dozen teams that disagree with you. I suppose you think he isn't starter material but some of the other unprovens on the roster are? The only player close to him in tackles last year was Whitner, and he is gone. Ayodele had 106 tackles to Poz's 151, and other than him Poz had almost twice as many tackles as anyone else left on the roster
Turbosrrgood Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) I think I mentioned Sheppard in another response in this thread when I said we may have drafted Poz's replacement. I believe strongly that he's either gonna replace Poz or Davis and will benefit from breaking into the league with whomever of the two is left over. If the stories about Sheppard's "Talleyesque" leadership qualities are true we may have drafted much more than a quality NFL starter. I'm looking forward to seeing the kid play. GO BILLS!!! Yeah, Sheppard hasn't played in the NFL yet so I can't get too excited...But he is already bigger and faster than POZ, and looks to be more instinctive. I also got the sense that this was POZ's replacement. Of course if we play mostly 3-4 you need 2 ILB's, and the Bills are anything but deep.... If the Bills let him get to the open market there will be at least half a dozen teams that disagree with you. I suppose you think he isn't starter material but some of the other unprovens on the roster are? The only player close to him in tackles last year was Whitner, and he is gone. Ayodele had 106 tackles to Poz's 151, and other than him Poz had almost twice as many tackles as anyone else left on the roster I am sure 4-3 teams will be interested...Which at least right now we are NOT. Comparing him to Ayodele (who is horrible) isn't saying much. No one questions that POZ makes a lot of tackles...too bad they were all 5-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. Where are the stats for how often a TE blew him away for a big play? JP Losman and Rob Johnson both had good QB ratings...we probably should have resigned them too right? Stats only mean something if they follow up good play... I can't argue against your point that we don't have a lot of talent behind him though...Sheppard and Davis sounds like a decent ILB combo to me...but that leaves no depth behind them. Do the Bills do the same as let Clements, Williams, Winfield walk after their rookie contract and get the wrath of their fans or sign Poz to an exaggerated contract like given to Kelsay and Lee and have to continue to under perform. Clements, Williams, and Winfield all played great football for the Bills. In the case of Clements and Williams they got huge contracts afterwards...Comparing these guys to POZ, who has been mostly disappointing, is comparing apples to oranges... Edited June 8, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
billsfreak Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Yeah, Sheppard hasn't played in the NFL yet so I can't get too excited...But he is already bigger and faster than POZ, and looks to be more instinctive. I also got the sense that this was POZ's replacement. Of course if we play mostly 3-4 you need 2 ILB's, and the Bills are anything but deep.... I am sure 4-3 teams will be interested...Which at least right now we are NOT. Comparing him to Ayodele (who is horrible) isn't saying much. No one questions that POZ makes a lot of tackles...too bad they were all 5-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. Where are the stats for how often a TE blew him away for a big play? JP Losman and Rob Johnson both had good QB ratings...we probably should have resigned them too right? Stats only mean something if they follow up good play... I can't argue against your point that we don't have a lot of talent behind him though...Sheppard and Davis sounds like a decent ILB combo to me...but that leaves no depth behind them. Clements, Williams, and Winfield all played great football for the Bills. In the case of Clements and Williams they got huge contracts afterwards...Comparing these guys to POZ, who has been mostly disappointing, is comparing apples to oranges... Which still doesn't make alot of sense, especially after they brought in Wannstedt who has coached a 4-3 his whole career. It was a bad move last year changing to a 3-4 without any of the personnel to fit that scheme. And you are right alot of his tackles were 5-10 yards downfield, but normally wasn't his fault it was the fault of the worst defensive line and run defense in football. Just think how bad it would have been if Williams wasn't there, but then again he was about all an offense had to worry about keeping an eye on, and a handful of opponents said that.
Turbosrrgood Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Which still doesn't make alot of sense, especially after they brought in Wannstedt who has coached a 4-3 his whole career. It was a bad move last year changing to a 3-4 without any of the personnel to fit that scheme. And you are right alot of his tackles were 5-10 yards downfield, but normally wasn't his fault it was the fault of the worst defensive line and run defense in football. Just think how bad it would have been if Williams wasn't there, but then again he was about all an offense had to worry about keeping an eye on, and a handful of opponents said that. Yeah, forcing a bunch of 4-3 players to try and be 3-4 players didn't work to well did it...I think wannstedt being here means we will have at least some 4-3 formations...But the draft certainly seems geared towards the 3-4 over the last 2 years...I think they will continue to mix in 4-3 every now and then until we have the right 3-4 pieces. Edited June 8, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
stony Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Yeah, Sheppard hasn't played in the NFL yet so I can't get too excited...But he is already bigger and faster than POZ, and looks to be more instinctive. I also got the sense that this was POZ's replacement. Of course if we play mostly 3-4 you need 2 ILB's, and the Bills are anything but deep.... I am sure 4-3 teams will be interested...Which at least right now we are NOT. Comparing him to Ayodele (who is horrible) isn't saying much. No one questions that POZ makes a lot of tackles...too bad they were all 5-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. Where are the stats for how often a TE blew him away for a big play? JP Losman and Rob Johnson both had good QB ratings...we probably should have resigned them too right? Stats only mean something if they follow up good play... I can't argue against your point that we don't have a lot of talent behind him though...Sheppard and Davis sounds like a decent ILB combo to me...but that leaves no depth behind them. Clements, Williams, and Winfield all played great football for the Bills. In the case of Clements and Williams they got huge contracts afterwards...Comparing these guys to POZ, who has been mostly disappointing, is comparing apples to oranges... So you're cool with getting rid of our best LB, despite any misgivings you have about him, but are fine w/ starting what you call a "decent ILB combo" of Davis and Sheppard. If decent is the standard for you, why not resign Poz and see what he does w/ better bigs in front of him and the alleged pass rush Merriman will bring? Edited June 8, 2011 by stony
vincec Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Who do you suggest they bring in to replace him. Everybody likes to crap on what we have without suggesting someone to replace them. An Andra Davis/Sheppard/Torbor/insert name duo will soon remind you of his value to the team. It might be tough to understand for many, but he is an above average starter, and would start for the majority of the teams in the league. +1 You don't let starters go without having a replacement plan. What is the plan to replace Poz? Rookie LBs who haven't even practiced a day in the NFL yet? Or maybe it's career journeymen like Ayodele, Torbor or Davis? Wait until you have someone waiting in the wings who looks like an upgrade THEN release/trade your starter. Better yet, keep him as depth if you can afford it.
thebandit27 Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 +1 You don't let starters go without having a replacement plan. What is the plan to replace Poz? Rookie LBs who haven't even practiced a day in the NFL yet? Or maybe it's career journeymen like Ayodele, Torbor or Davis? Wait until you have someone waiting in the wings who looks like an upgrade THEN release/trade your starter. Better yet, keep him as depth if you can afford it. I hear you, but suppose (and I'm not saying this will be the case with Poz) that said starter wants about 50% more money than the team feels he's worth...do you stick to that sentiment and pay 1.5 times what you feel is appropriate just to avoid having to start a rookie or a journeyman? I'm not so sure I would, which is why I'd only be in favor of re-signing Poz if he comes at a very reasonable salary (i.e. $3-$3.5M per)...but I don't think he would go for that.
Webster Guy Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Okay I don't want to embarass the guy who wrote this, but I hafta quote this one "Poz is washed up. He sucks and at age 26, hes far too old. Merriman is only 27 and still young" CLASSIC LOGIC. Chalk one up for the Cheektowaga School System..... laughin myAss off
K-9 Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Okay I don't want to embarass the guy who wrote this, but I hafta quote this one "Poz is washed up. He sucks and at age 26, hes far too old. Merriman is only 27 and still young" CLASSIC LOGIC. Chalk one up for the Cheektowaga School System..... laughin myAss off I'm pretty sure the Cheektowaga school system and their language arts department taught the concept of irony and satire. I'm guessing the schools you attended didn't or perhaps you were absent that day? Jauronimo was making a good point in a creative way. Not enough of that around here. GO BILLS!!!
K-9 Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 If the Bills let him get to the open market there will be at least half a dozen teams that disagree with you. I suppose you think he isn't starter material but some of the other unprovens on the roster are? The only player close to him in tackles last year was Whitner, and he is gone. Ayodele had 106 tackles to Poz's 151, and other than him Poz had almost twice as many tackles as anyone else left on the roster I agree with you that Poz will generate offers. I think there's a good chance the Bills will re-sign him as well. That doesn't change my opinion of him though. He's nothing more than ordinary. I think there are three NFL quality starters on our defense, assuming Merriman stays healthy and joins KW and Byrd. If Florence comes back that makes four. Maybe five if Edwards can show the form he was just starting to show when he got hurt. There is no need to argue about the tackles stat. If I were Poz's agent I'd certainly want to cite them, too. But tackles don't tell the story. It's the plays he doesn't make that makes me believe there wouldn't be much drop off by playing somebody else. GO BILLS!!!
billsfreak Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 +1 You don't let starters go without having a replacement plan. What is the plan to replace Poz? Rookie LBs who haven't even practiced a day in the NFL yet? Or maybe it's career journeymen like Ayodele, Torbor or Davis? Wait until you have someone waiting in the wings who looks like an upgrade THEN release/trade your starter. Better yet, keep him as depth if you can afford it. The Buffalo Bills do and have for the better part of the past two decades.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Okay I don't want to embarass the guy who wrote this, but I hafta quote this one "Poz is washed up. He sucks and at age 26, hes far too old. Merriman is only 27 and still young" CLASSIC LOGIC. Chalk one up for the Cheektowaga School System..... laughin myAss off There's a few posters here who's work cannot be taken literally at face value.
PDaDdy Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) The guy has started 42 of 48 games the last three seasons (and 25 of the last 27); let's not act as though he's a no-show on Sundays. What are you talking about? 42 of the last 48 is correct but 25 of the last 27 is wrong. He played 26 of the last 32. That doesn't even take into consideration his 2007 year when he played 3 games out of 16!!! All in all over his career he has played 45 out of 64 games. That means Poz has played about 70% of the games since being a Bill. http://www.nfl.com/players/paulposluszny/careerstats?id=POS250036 Edited June 8, 2011 by PDaDdy
PDaDdy Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 If I'm not mistaken he has also been put on IR 2 of his 4 seasons.
Turbosrrgood Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) So you're cool with getting rid of our best LB, despite any misgivings you have about him, but are fine w/ starting what you call a "decent ILB combo" of Davis and Sheppard. If decent is the standard for you, why not resign Poz and see what he does w/ better bigs in front of him and the alleged pass rush Merriman will bring? Saying POZ is our "Best LB" is a scary statement, even though it might have been true last year. My whole point is we should improve, not stick with a guy who is mediocre at best. Andra Davis is a much better LB when healthy compared to POZ in my opinion (granted he is older now). Sheppard was a tackling machine in college, and is bigger, faster, and more instinctive than POZ (granted he hasn't played in the NFL yet). "Decent" is not the standard to me...unfortunately "decent" is MUCH better than what we had last year...so if its an improvement, yeah I'll take it. I could support bringing POZ back as depth, and maybe a stop gap starter...but only if we got him on a low end contract. I agree with you that Poz will generate offers. I think there's a good chance the Bills will re-sign him as well. That doesn't change my opinion of him though. He's nothing more than ordinary. I think there are three NFL quality starters on our defense, assuming Merriman stays healthy and joins KW and Byrd. If Florence comes back that makes four. Maybe five if Edwards can show the form he was just starting to show when he got hurt. There is no need to argue about the tackles stat. If I were Poz's agent I'd certainly want to cite them, too. But tackles don't tell the story. It's the plays he doesn't make that makes me believe there wouldn't be much drop off by playing somebody else. GO BILLS!!! +1, Poz will generate offers, which will drive up the price of his contract, which is the reason I wouldn't want to sign him. The thing is he is decent (definitely not great) in a 4-3 defense, but he was mostly invisible in the 3-4 defense last year (despite all the tackles down field). Its not that I hate POZ, I guess my perspective is why make a commitment to mediocrity when we can get mediocre play from a udfa? Edited June 8, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
stony Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Saying POZ is our "Best LB" is a scary statement, even though it might have been true last year. My whole point is we should improve, not stick with a guy who is mediocre at best. Andra Davis is a much better LB when healthy compared to POZ in my opinion (granted he is older now). Sheppard was a tackling machine in college, and is bigger, faster, and more instinctive than POZ (granted he hasn't played in the NFL yet). "Decent" is not the standard to me...unfortunately "decent" is MUCH better than what we had last year...so if its an improvement, yeah I'll take it. I could support bringing POZ back as depth, and maybe a stop gap starter...but only if we got him on a low end contract. I think we'll agree to disagree. I think Davis fits the bill as a depth LB and stop-gap starter more than Poz IMO. I'm high on Sheppard, just cautiously optimistic based on his rookie status and the lockout screwing everything up. I think you'll be surprised on some of the offers he gets if they're made public.
Turbosrrgood Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) I think you'll be surprised on some of the offers he gets if they're made public. I won't, and that's my point. I just don't think we should commit to him if we have to match long, relatively costly contracts for a mediocre player. But I guess its Nix's opinion that will matter... Edited June 8, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
Jauronimo Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) I'm pretty sure the Cheektowaga school system and their language arts department taught the concept of irony and satire. I'm guessing the schools you attended didn't or perhaps you were absent that day? Jauronimo was making a good point in a creative way. Not enough of that around here. GO BILLS!!! While I appreciate the vote of confidence, I'm not sure my point was very good after reading your pretty thorough analysis of both Poz's and KW's play. I'm interested to know if, in your opinion, Poz is a significant upgrade over guys like Torbor and Davis? Do we lose anything when he is not in the lineup? It will definitely be interesting to see what kind of money Poz is looking for and how much interest there will be for him. For some reason (don't remember why) I assumed the plan was to stick KW at NT while Troup developed and then move Kyle over to end where he would be better suited. Again, it looks like I was pretty far off the mark. If Troup or the other, who's name need not be mentioned, turn out to be the true 2 gap NT we need, does KW fit into this D? In this hybrid defense did the Bills relegate KW to a part time role player? Edited June 8, 2011 by Jauronimo
Turbosrrgood Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 For some reason (don't remember why) I assumed the plan was to stick KW at NT while Troup developed and then move Kyle over to end where he would be better suited. Again, it looks like I was pretty far off the mark. If Troup or the other, who's name need not be mentioned, turn out to be the true 2 gap NT we need, does KW fit into this D? In this hybrid defense did the Bills relegate KW to a part time role player? I wonder these questions myself, but it's pretty clear that the answers are still a way off. KW is such a strong player, possibly our best, but I don't know he is playing at the best position for him. Troup still has to show a lot more before he can be considered a starting NT, so I think the status quo has to remain for now. At least KW will have Dareus next to him now, that can only help the situation.
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