Should the Bills re-sign Poz

[BuffaloBillsSD]

Don't back down now. What was true then is true now. HE DOESN'T FIT THE PROTOTYPE! Playing a guy at DE who's arms are an inch too short is like bringing a banana to a knife fight. Grind him into meat!

 

Poz is washed up. He sucks and at age 26, hes far too old. Merriman is only 27 and still young, so even though he can't get on the field, hes better than Poz. Ayodele, Davis, Moats, Batten, Maybin and Kelsay are worth keeping but GET RID OF POZ! Even though Poz has been the best LB on the team since his rookie season, he wouldn't start on any other team in the league. I know Kawika Mitchell started for the Super Bowl winning Giants, and Poz is better than Mitchell, but Poz would not start on any team in the league. Although I have no knowledge of the money Poz expects, I'm certain its too much. Remove all mention of Poz from the books and airbrush his photo from all team propaganda. Anyone who speaks his name should be sent to the gulag.

 

We got Jasper so we can run Williams out of town along with Poz. We've been rebuilding for so long why stop now.

[PDaDdy]

Depends on what Poz wants for compensation and if they think there is actually a shot that he could play 16 games.

[eball]

Depends on what Poz wants for compensation and if they think there is actually a shot that he could play 16 games.

The guy has started 42 of 48 games the last three seasons (and 25 of the last 27); let's not act as though he's a no-show on Sundays.

[K-9]

Don't back down now. What was true then is true now. HE DOESN'T FIT THE PROTOTYPE! Playing a guy at DE who's arms are an inch too short is like bringing a banana to a knife fight. Grind him into meat!

 

Poz is washed up. He sucks and at age 26, hes far too old. Merriman is only 27 and still young, so even though he can't get on the field, hes better than Poz. Ayodele, Davis, Moats, Batten, Maybin and Kelsay are worth keeping but GET RID OF POZ! Even though Poz has been the best LB on the team since his rookie season, he wouldn't start on any other team in the league. I know Kawika Mitchell started for the Super Bowl winning Giants, and Poz is better than Mitchell, but Poz would not start on any team in the league. Although I have no knowledge of the money Poz expects, I'm certain its too much. Remove all mention of Poz from the books and airbrush his photo from all team propaganda. Anyone who speaks his name should be sent to the gulag.

 

I love hyperbolic sarcasm and posts dripping with satire. Well done. And at the risk of inspiring more of your unique wit (seriously, it's good stuff so keep 'em coming) I'll attempt to respond to the football aspects of your post.

 

KW is a perfect 1-gap NT in a 34. But that's no surprise given how well he plays as a 3 technique in the 43. However, to maximize his talents as a 1 gap NT he MUST be supported by DEs that can get down the line as well as have ILBs that can shoot the gap he vacates on a given play. Our DEs and LBs were terrible in that regard last season especially. Moving KW to DE seems like a waste of time. His short arms and frame would be a liability in space against long-armed tackles. I think he'd have problems getting off blocks and would be even worse at setting an edge as a result. I don't think we'd be strengthening DE as much as weakening our DT position. That said, if anyone with short arms and body CAN play 34 DE it might be KW.

 

As for our LBs they are terrible as a group. Ayodele's best days are behind him. Batten is a total unkown. Maybin hasn't shown a thing. Moats can't play the run to save his life and Kelsay has no business even lining up at OLB. That leaves Davis and Poz. Davis is long in the tooth and was nothing special, although his leadership and experience is a huge plus. Same for Poz, but other than his intangibles I don't see consistent good play over his four seasons to suggest he's anything special regardless of scheme. He routinely over pursues, takes bad angles, can't shed blocks very well, and is a liability in pass coverage, especially in the 34. Merriman, if fully recovered automatically becomes our best LB and the best OLB we've had in a while. But his health is a big if.

 

We can have negative opinions on a player's ability and not be running him out of town. It's a simple honest assessment. Hell, who better than a fan to want to have positive outlooks? I WANT to believe all our players are good. After watching Poz for three years in a 43 and not being impressed, I was looking forward to how he would play in a 34. He was just as undisciplined and his already poor pass defense was even more of a liability given the added responsibility the 34 presents. His limitations were magnified by the poor play of our DEs. For Poz to excel, he needs perfect play up front most of the time. And that's the very definition of an ordinary player.

 

We have too many ordinary players and nearly every position on the D side of the ball is eligible for an upgrade. Including Poz.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Turbosrrgood]

KW is a perfect 1-gap NT in a 34.

 

 

KW played exceptionally well at a position he isn't physically suited for. He was probably our best defensive player. But to say he is a "perfect 1-gap NT" is just WAY off IMO. He is an ideal 4-3 DT, and played surprisingly well at NT despite being undersized for the job. Now I know the Bills LB's were awful last year, but to think KW hasn't had some blame in the Bills horrible run defense the last few years is just naive. He is a great penetrator, and does a great job at attacking angles, but when opposing teams ran straight ahead KW had no awnser. He just simply isn't big enough to hold the point of attack when teams go up the middle, despite all his effort.

 

Watch a guy like Wilfork play, not only can he not be moved out of the way, but he often moves the whole pile into the path of the opposing running back. Of course he is bigger, and a PURE NT.

 

I like Williams, but he is not even ideal at NT, let alone perfect. This is why the Bills picked up Troup, Heard, and Jasper.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[Jauronimo]

I love hyperbolic sarcasm and posts dripping with satire. Well done. And at the risk of inspiring more of your unique wit (seriously, it's good stuff so keep 'em coming) I'll attempt to respond to the football aspects of your post.

 

KW is a perfect 1-gap NT in a 34. But that's no surprise given how well he plays as a 3 technique in the 43. However, to maximize his talents as a 1 gap NT he MUST be supported by DEs that can get down the line as well as have ILBs that can shoot the gap he vacates on a given play. Our DEs and LBs were terrible in that regard last season especially. Moving KW to DE seems like a waste of time. His short arms and frame would be a liability in space against long-armed tackles. I think he'd have problems getting off blocks and would be even worse at setting an edge as a result. I don't think we'd be strengthening DE as much as weakening our DT position. That said, if anyone with short arms and body CAN play 34 DE it might be KW.

 

As for our LBs they are terrible as a group. Ayodele's best days are behind him. Batten is a total unkown. Maybin hasn't shown a thing. Moats can't play the run to save his life and Kelsay has no business even lining up at OLB. That leaves Davis and Poz. Davis is long in the tooth and was nothing special, although his leadership and experience is a huge plus. Same for Poz, but other than his intangibles I don't see consistent good play over his four seasons to suggest he's anything special regardless of scheme. He routinely over pursues, takes bad angles, can't shed blocks very well, and is a liability in pass coverage, especially in the 34. Merriman, if fully recovered automatically becomes our best LB and the best OLB we've had in a while. But his health is a big if.

 

We can have negative opinions on a player's ability and not be running him out of town. It's a simple honest assessment. Hell, who better than a fan to want to have positive outlooks? I WANT to believe all our players are good. After watching Poz for three years in a 43 and not being impressed, I was looking forward to how he would play in a 34. He was just as undisciplined and his already poor pass defense was even more of a liability given the added responsibility the 34 presents. His limitations were magnified by the poor play of our DEs. For Poz to excel, he needs perfect play up front most of the time. And that's the very definition of an ordinary player.

 

We have too many ordinary players and nearly every position on the D side of the ball is eligible for an upgrade. Including Poz.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Nice breakdown K-9. Its certainly much more football analysis than I could provide. I agree that Poz is pretty ordinary, but I find it hard to believe that he rides the bench on every other team. My posts were in reaction to the people who advocate cutting every player who doesn't make the pro bowl. Over the last 2 years this team has had to pick up guys off the street to play LB. Its not a position the Bills have much talent or depth at. Letting Poz walk , or claiming he's not worth it, when we don't even know what the kind of money is on the table seems absurd.

[K-9]

KW played exceptionally well at a position he isn't physically suited for. He was probably our best defensive player. But to say he is a "perfect 1-gap NT" is just WAY off IMO. He is an ideal 4-3 DT, and played surprisingly well at NT despite being undersized for the job. Now I know the Bills LB's were awful last year, but to think KW hasn't had some blame in the Bills horrible run defense the last few years is just naive. He is a great penetrator, and does a great job at attacking angles, but when opposing teams ran straight ahead KW had no awnser. He just simply isn't big enough to hold the point of attack when teams go up the middle, despite all his effort.

 

Watch a guy like Wilfork play, not only can he not be moved out of the way, but he often moves the whole pile into the path of the opposing running back. Of course he is bigger, and a PURE NT.

 

I like Williams, but is not even ideal at NT, let alone perfect. This is why the Bills picked up Troup, Heard, and Jasper.

 

Suffice to say Wilfork and KW play two completely different responsibilities in their respective defenses. As a result, the DEs and ILBs play differently as well, with different reads and responsibilities depending on the vacated gap at the snap. Like Dallas with Ratliff. Of course NE and Dallas have way better DEs and our LBs would be well served by better DE play as well.

 

I'm not saying KW doesn't make the bad play every now and then. But this idea that he's a liability in the 34 more often than not is not something I witnessed. If you could point me to a couple of plays where KW was dominated I'd like to take a look. Those plays were few and far between. You can count the times he was singled on both hands. That constant double teaming DEMANDS his ILBs make a play. They didn't way more often than not. The number of times our LBs couldn't shed a block, pursue, fill a hole vs. the number of times KW missed a play is far far higher.

 

That said, perhaps the Bills PREFER to play their 34 DT on the nose. Perhaps they prefer to because our other D personnel is more suited for supporting a 2 gap NT. Perhaps that's why they picked bigger NTs. We don't know that yet. Maybe Troupe et al win the position and provide depth and KW is just part of the rotation or a 43 package. We'll see. In the meantime they found a way to get their best DLman in a position to play his best ball and he did.

 

Our LBs and DEs were the biggest problem on defense last year. In that order.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Turbosrrgood]

Suffice to say Wilfork and KW play two completely different responsibilities in their respective defenses. As a result, the DEs and ILBs play differently as well, with different reads and responsibilities depending on the vacated gap at the snap. Like Dallas with Ratliff. Of course NE and Dallas have way better DEs and our LBs would be well served by better DE play as well.

 

I'm not saying KW doesn't make the bad play every now and then. But this idea that he's a liability in the 34 more often than not is not something I witnessed. If you could point me to a couple of plays where KW was dominated I'd like to take a look. Those plays were few and far between. You can count the times he was singled on both hands. That constant double teaming DEMANDS his ILBs make a play. They didn't way more often than not. The number of times our LBs couldn't shed a block, pursue, fill a hole vs. the number of times KW missed a play is far far higher.

 

That said, perhaps the Bills PREFER to play their 34 DT on the nose. Perhaps they prefer to because our other D personnel is more suited for supporting a 2 gap NT. Perhaps that's why they picked bigger NTs. We don't know that yet. Maybe Troupe et al win the position and provide depth and KW is just part of the rotation or a 43 package. We'll see. In the meantime they found a way to get their best DLman in a position to play his best ball and he did.

 

Our LBs and DEs were the biggest problem on defense last year. In that order.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Wilfork, and KW played the same position last year, and had virtually the same responsibilities. NE doesn't really have good LB's either...This is just an excuse.

 

I know KW is popular, and for good reason. I am by no means saying KW is a bad player, or even a bad NT. No matter how you slice it, he is very undersized as a 3-4 NT. He was even considered undersized when drafted as a 4-3 DT. He has one of the best motors I have ever seen, is strong, and can beat blockers. Having said that, the reasons for the Bills run-D failure listed above are just excuses. You want an example? watch one of the dozens of run plays that went straight up huge holes in the middle last year. On many of those plays KW was either pushed back, or more often, pushed to the side to create a gap. A good 3-4 NT needs to be near impossible to move. As bad as they were, I still can't believe that the Bills 3-4 scheme is "designed" to leave gaping holes to run through...KW is a great player, and probably one of the top 5 DT's in the league, he is just not built as a NT. Again, thats why the Bills have picked up another 3 pure NT's in the last year.

 

He made is mark many times, by busting through the line and making great plays...unfortunately, teams ran right through the spot where we was supposed to be plenty of times as well.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

Wilfork, and KW played the same position last year, and had virtually the same responsibilities. NE doesn't really have good LB's either...This is just an excuse.

Wilfork is a 2 gap NT, Williams is not. Disagree with the design of the defense, but not all 34 defenses are played the same. Williams was asked to maintain 1 gap and be a penatrator, Wilfork is a 2 gap player.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[Direhard Fan]

Missed more than a year -20 games- and just now reaching his prime. Played a new "D" last year. What is all the fuss. Pay the man and be done with it. Or we could always pay Mabin more.

[Delete This Account]

all indications are that Poz is in the Bills plans. he wants to re-sign, and the coaching staff is very open to having him back.

 

jw

[K-9]

I know KW is popular, and for good reason. I am by no means saying KW is a bad player, or even a bad NT. No matter how you slice it, he is very undersized as a 3-4 NT. He was even considered undersized when drafted as a 4-3 DT. He has one of the best motors I have ever seen, is strong, and can beat blockers. Having said that, the reasons for the Bills run-D failure listed above are just excuses. You want an example? watch one of the dozens of run plays that went straight up huge holes in the middle last year. On many of those plays KW was either pushed back, or more often, pushed to the side to create a gap. A good 3-4 NT needs to be near impossible to move. As bad as they were, I can't believe that the Bills 3-4 scheme is "designed" to leave gaping holes to run through...KW is a great player, and probably one of the top 5 DT's in the league, he is just not built as a NT.

 

He made is mark many times, by busting through the line and making great plays...unfortunately, teams ran right through the spot where we was supposed to be plenty of times as well.

 

I think we have different understandings of the various roles of a 34 NT. There are different ways to play it and there is nothing wrong or weak about having a smaller, quicker 1 gap tackle in the 34. KW is undersized for a 2 gap NT. But he's ideal for the 1 gap NT and he proved it last season. He plays with great technique. He's much like Ratliff as I said.

 

We will just have to disagree on my reasons for the bad run defense last season. If you didn't see the same bad play from our LBs and DEs and I didn't see KW getting beat "dozens of times" then that's fine.

 

I don't think I implied that the Bills' 34, which utilizes a 1 gap nose technique, is "designed" to leave gaping holes to run through. It's "designed" to have everyone playing their responsibilities relative to that vacated gap at the snap. Our LBs and DEs didn't come close to playing it as it's designed. KW, by virtue of the constant double teams DID play it as designed. And he played it very well far more often than not.

I submit the coaching staff realized a few important things relative to switching to the 34 last season: Kelsay was a bust as an OLB, our DEs were very limited in both run and pass D (Stroud was a bust as well), and our LBs, especially on the inside, couldn't maintain their gap responsibility for reasons mostly having to do with technique and discipline.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Turbosrrgood]

I think we have different understandings of the various roles of a 34 NT. There are different ways to play it and there is nothing wrong or weak about having a smaller, quicker 1 gap tackle in the 34. KW is undersized for a 2 gap NT. But he's ideal for the 1 gap NT and he proved it last season. He plays with great technique. He's much like Ratliff as I said.

 

We will just have to disagree on my reasons for the bad run defense last season. If you didn't see the same bad play from our LBs and DEs and I didn't see KW getting beat "dozens of times" then that's fine.

 

I don't think I implied that the Bills' 34, which utilizes a 1 gap nose technique, is "designed" to leave gaping holes to run through. It's "designed" to have everyone playing their responsibilities relative to that vacated gap at the snap. Our LBs and DEs didn't come close to playing it as it's designed. KW, by virtue of the constant double teams DID play it as designed. And he played it very well far more often than not.

I submit the coaching staff realized a few important things relative to switching to the 34 last season: Kelsay was a bust as an OLB, our DEs were very limited in both run and pass D (Stroud was a bust as well), and our LBs, especially on the inside, couldn't maintain their gap responsibility for reasons mostly having to do with technique and discipline.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Well put response.

 

I don't want to come off as being against KW, like I said he was our best D player. I just think his strength is attacking the line, not anchoring. I'd like to see him play 4-3 DT (very possible with wannstedt), or 3-4 end (arms to short?) where he can use those skills more.

 

Obviously our LB's sucked last year, and it is certainly reasonable to blame the scheme. I was very upset with picking George Edwards as our DC, and even more upset that he justified my concerns...

[Da Big Man]

No they shouldn't resign Poz! But they will.

[VADC Bills]

The amazing thing about this board is how certain players are loved to a ridiculous level while others are ripped with consistency.

 

POZ is an average linebacker who cannot cover anyone in pass coverage and who makes most of his tackles after runners have passed him by. Like all too many of the D players drafted over the last ten years he is not an aggressive player and seems unable to beat the blocks plus he is fragile.

 

Yes, he sells a lot of jersey's ... yes, he's popular and a team player ... and yes, we need to sign him inspite of all the above weaknesses because we just don't have the bodies at ILB until our rookies mature and establish themselves as more than just good PR stories.

 

When I read about this year's picks and look at last year's (Batten and Moats plus Coleman too) what I am seeing are players with a remarkedly different on-the-field attitude from POZ. These guys are aggressive ball hawks who are team leaders and intelligent. Although I haven't done it, yet, I'd love to compare game film of Moats and Poz from last year to see which of those two guys was moving towards the ball the most. I have a feeling that our rookie was the better player on the field most of the time.

 

So ... don't toss out your POZ jersey yet ... keep showing him the love ... and maybe with our new front line POZ will be able to rise above mediocrity!

+1

[John from Riverside]

I love hyperbolic sarcasm and posts dripping with satire. Well done. And at the risk of inspiring more of your unique wit (seriously, it's good stuff so keep 'em coming) I'll attempt to respond to the football aspects of your post.

 

KW is a perfect 1-gap NT in a 34. But that's no surprise given how well he plays as a 3 technique in the 43. However, to maximize his talents as a 1 gap NT he MUST be supported by DEs that can get down the line as well as have ILBs that can shoot the gap he vacates on a given play. Our DEs and LBs were terrible in that regard last season especially. Moving KW to DE seems like a waste of time. His short arms and frame would be a liability in space against long-armed tackles. I think he'd have problems getting off blocks and would be even worse at setting an edge as a result. I don't think we'd be strengthening DE as much as weakening our DT position. That said, if anyone with short arms and body CAN play 34 DE it might be KW.

 

As for our LBs they are terrible as a group. Ayodele's best days are behind him. Batten is a total unkown. Maybin hasn't shown a thing. Moats can't play the run to save his life and Kelsay has no business even lining up at OLB. That leaves Davis and Poz. Davis is long in the tooth and was nothing special, although his leadership and experience is a huge plus. Same for Poz, but other than his intangibles I don't see consistent good play over his four seasons to suggest he's anything special regardless of scheme. He routinely over pursues, takes bad angles, can't shed blocks very well, and is a liability in pass coverage, especially in the 34. Merriman, if fully recovered automatically becomes our best LB and the best OLB we've had in a while. But his health is a big if.

 

We can have negative opinions on a player's ability and not be running him out of town. It's a simple honest assessment. Hell, who better than a fan to want to have positive outlooks? I WANT to believe all our players are good. After watching Poz for three years in a 43 and not being impressed, I was looking forward to how he would play in a 34. He was just as undisciplined and his already poor pass defense was even more of a liability given the added responsibility the 34 presents. His limitations were magnified by the poor play of our DEs. For Poz to excel, he needs perfect play up front most of the time. And that's the very definition of an ordinary player.

 

We have too many ordinary players and nearly every position on the D side of the ball is eligible for an upgrade. Including Poz.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

Actually I thought this was a good response...and I too have my doubts that KW should be moved to DE.......what they should be doing is playing one game NT with him and I feel we got much better at the DE position with drafting Darius and getting Carrington into the starting lineup......

 

No talk of Sheppard in your response though....I think Kelvin is a keeper who will shoot those gaps you are talking about.....Poz to me has shown the ability to shoot gaps in the past but he needs to be more consistant.......Davis is a thumper who needs to stay healthy

[K-9]

Actually I thought this was a good response...and I too have my doubts that KW should be moved to DE.......what they should be doing is playing one game NT with him and I feel we got much better at the DE position with drafting Darius and getting Carrington into the starting lineup......

No talk of Sheppard in your response though....I think Kelvin is a keeper who will shoot those gaps you are talking about.....Poz to me has shown the ability to shoot gaps in the past but he needs to be more consistant.......Davis is a thumper who needs to stay healthy

 

I think I mentioned Sheppard in another response in this thread when I said we may have drafted Poz's replacement. I believe strongly that he's either gonna replace Poz or Davis and will benefit from breaking into the league with whomever of the two is left over. If the stories about Sheppard's "Talleyesque" leadership qualities are true we may have drafted much more than a quality NFL starter. I'm looking forward to seeing the kid play.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DreReed83]

Poz is overrated. I never wanted him when he came out of Penn State and I STILL don't want him now.

 

No to Poz.

[stony]

No they shouldn't resign Poz! But they will.

 

Who do you suggest they bring in to replace him. Everybody likes to crap on what we have without suggesting someone to replace them. An Andra Davis/Sheppard/Torbor/insert name duo will soon remind you of his value to the team. It might be tough to understand for many, but he is an above average starter, and would start for the majority of the teams in the league.

[DreReed83]

Who do you suggest they bring in to replace him. Everybody likes to crap on what we have without suggesting someone to replace them. An Andra Davis/Sheppard/Torbor/insert name duo will soon remind you of his value to the team. It might be tough to understand for many, but he is an above average starter, and would start for the majority of the teams in the league.

 

 

Edited: What makes him ABOVE average?