BillsVet Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 And this is where the overblown statements come in. David Nelson is 6-5 220. He can jump over a nickle back and is faster than a LB. Yes he isn't 270 pounds and can't man handle a nickle back like Lewis but he does pose a match-up problem when running routes that a traditional TEs would run. He has helped this offense. Getting a real TE that can block AND catch would be valuable but its not the end of the world or make a huge difference in wins and losses if the Bills use a platoon approach to the TE. When we were going "4-Wide" with Stevie Johnson, Evans (Donald Jones or Roosevelt) and David Nelson towards the end of the season. Nelson was running routes and lined up where a TE would have been. You can call it whatever you want the purpose was the same thing. Force the defense to use a nickel back or LB to cover Nelson because Nelson poses a matchup problem for either position. Coincidentally, James Hardy was 6'5 220 when he entered the league. Despite his obvious size advantage on CB's, he did nothing. Nelson's a guy who will never stretch the field vertically, and will be running a lot of underneath routes. I mentioned before that teams play cover 2 frequently, and a solid TE who can run the seam is what keeps this defense honest. If ever there's a fan base who should know the value of a legitimate TE, it's Bills fans. Last year, Buffalo was torched throughout the season because Chris Kelsay et. al couldn't cover a TE to save his/their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Coincidentally, James Hardy was 6'5 220 when he entered the league. Despite his obvious size advantage on CB's, he did nothing. Nelson's a guy who will never stretch the field vertically, and will be running a lot of underneath routes. I mentioned before that teams play cover 2 frequently, and a solid TE who can run the seam is what keeps this defense honest. If ever there's a fan base who should know the value of a legitimate TE, it's Bills fans. Last year, Buffalo was torched throughout the season because Chris Kelsay et. al couldn't cover a TE to save his/their life. Coincidently? What does Hardy have to do with anything? If you took a look at how they're using Nelson. You would see at the end of the year Nelson was running the seam route and he is streatching the field and is keeping defenses honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 You must be kidding? A RB, TE, and WR pose huge matchup issues, especially considering where they're lined up and how the defense reacts. Do you go man and put a nickel CB on the TE or use the SS, two players with different skill sets. A solid TE can also expose zone coverage, particularly the Tampa 2 that all teams at some point use in a season. I really don't think Gailey sees the TE position as anything more than another blocker. There likely won't be any significant signing in UFA for this reason. They're content with fringe NFL players like Stupar, Chandler, Caussin, David and Martin as blockers. All of them are low cost blockers who aren't all that great receiving. I had hopes for Nelson, but he's struggled mightily and may never be a receiving threat, especially in Gailey's offense. Nelson was suspended for the first 4 games and could not play the final 6 games with his severe migraine headaches. That leaves 6 games, in which he saw action...I think it is too harsh to judge someone in 6 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I base it off the receptions his TE's have had when he was an OC (PIT 96-97, MIA 00-01, and KC 08) then a HC (DAL 98-99 and BUF 10). Aside from Tony Gonzalez who is a sure-fire HOFer, he hasn't had 1 TE record 40 catches. And their YPC average is very low as well. One could say this was the era in the late nineties and early part of the 2000s, but not having that guy now hurts an offense. Discarding them as blockers demonstrates a lack of foresight for the supposed "offensive genius." Now, he didn't have the greatest talent, but he still has very much to prove. Some fans can say that a guy in the slot like David Nelson suffices, but he can never pose a match-up challenge like a physical TE such as Marcedes Lewis. Two completely different players and something an opposing defense has to account for. Ask the Bills who were torched in the first half of the season by every TE they played against. Again, I don't see where Gailey has "discarded" TEs as blockers; I think it's a function of utilizing what talent he has to work with. He doesn't have the versatile TE you're talking about on the roster, so what's he supposed to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Chris Brown on Bills TE Scott Chandler. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/2011-will-be-Chandlers-best-shot-yet/16639031-20a5-4ae1-9988-6799f39d0839 "I see him coming in and being our starting tight end and having a great year,” said (Bills TE Coach Bob) Bicknell flatly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsner Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I'm willing to have an open mind about Chandler. He can block and he'll be getting starting reps, something he didn't get much of with the cowboys. If Chan and company honestly think he can grow into his role and contribute then that's ok with me. TE is a huge hole on our team and if he can fill it then great. I honestly hope we go after a young stud blocker like Boss or Miller though. Where art thou Metzelaars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 More Info: The current combination of Bills TE's has the best "thrown to/caught" ratio in the NFL. Stupar was 2nd, Martin 4th in % caught. The problem isn't that Stupar/Chandler/etc. drop passes; they aren't being thrown their way. Stupar was FIFTY-THIRD among TE's in "Thrown At". 3 of the Top 5 TE's in run blocking face the Bills twice a season. The Bills don't have any TE's that have a positive run-blocking grade by Pro Football Focus. (BTW, Cooley doesn't either, but Zach Miller is Top 10 in run-blocking. Don't get your hopes up; Kleinsasser was last year's FA run blocker and he's still in MINN) Maybe they aren't open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 This one of my favorite discussions about the Bills. I love the scheme that Belicheat built last year. I really hate him but the man can really think about strategies and build around who he has (an aging but great QB and a line that seems to run block better than pass protect these days, not that they suck at it but still. They made Whitehead a star last year). The Bills can certainly use much of the same scheme with only one good tight end, because of David Nelsons size and speed and hopefully the coming on (and return of) Easly (did I spell that right?) who looks like a beasty guy, the match up problems for a D could be similar. I think that with this years free agency they will make a play for a vet TE, who it will be is anyone's guess, there are quite a few available. I think that is why they didn't worry much about it in the draft (besides the fact that the draft is limited). No one knows about what will happen with S.Nelson and Scott Chandler, I think they are we like them buts.....kind of guys right now. I hope they are not going to let that fly and bypass the others in FA. One thing about the Belicheat scheme though is the 2 tight end set and the inability of a D to get whether the play is a run or a pass out of it. I would be crazy happy if the Bills signed both of the guys Pilsner mentioned and copied it. It is an opportunity that is there and worth the bank, our O could be crazy good, run and pass and totally unpredictable. It is really smart for later in the season when weather becomes more of an issue. The 4 wide can still be used a lot if Chan wants to, we have talented runners and Fitz can get the ball out quick (and throw to the seam). I want this so much, I know I will be broken hearted lol. When is this lockout going to end? By the time they start up I will be bored at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) I completely agree with the first paragraph. With respect to the second, upon what do you base your assumptions? At what point has Gailey ever said he views the TE as "another blocker" or that he is "content" with the players listed? Would it be better for him to publicly whine about not having Antonio Gates on the roster? If Chan is anything, he's a creative offensive minded coach. How you could presume he's not interested in having a versatile TE is beyond me. Bingo. I have seen quite a few posts stating that Gailey doesn't use TEs. It's really amazing how confused some people are about the position. Link - Bills MMQB Club wrap-up Nix did admit that they liked Lance Kendricks, the tight end from Wisconsin, but not enough to select him as high as he went in the draft. He also pointed out that head coach Chan Gailey utilizes tight ends less than most in the league. This was discussed in that thread from last month. As I wrote at the time, it would certainly help our OTs to have some quality blocking help from a TE. As it stands right now, it's wishful thinking (and going against what was shown on the field in the past couple of seasons) that the current crop of TEs can consistently provide that help. So, there is a reason why some posters say those things --- Nix darn well confirmed it. Edited June 11, 2011 by UConn James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Frankly, I also like TE in free agency because even elite tightends aren't breaking the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 A TE who can block run and Catch allows you to disguise you intention of running or passing- I'd call that pretty important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I 100% agree. He has a TE body, not an OLB body. It will prob not work, but why not try? Might as well. Not a lot of difference between not being able to tackle or sack a QB and not being able to block or catch, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 If you took a look at how they're using Nelson. You would see at the end of the year Nelson was running the seam route and he is streatching the field and is keeping defenses honest. Right down the seam: http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Nelson-11-yard-TD/ba182cc3-3cbf-45bf-ae31-9dd6a933b832 x2: http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Nelson-TD-catch/c20a2c1e-50ee-4d2b-8815-85a5729cb463 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 ESPN's Matt Williamson who is part of their Scouts Inc. group broke down the Bills tight ends. http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/29288/breaking-down-the-tight-ends-buffalo I thought he was being quite optimistic about our tight end's capabilities. They are less than bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 I thought he was being quite optimistic about our tight end's capabilities. They are less than bad. I can't argue with you. Collectively, they've proven absolutely nothing so far. It's hard to say exactly how bad they are… Not holding my breath but the top two free agent tight ends are both younger… Kevin Boss is 27 and Zach Miller is 25. This is a moment where need dovetails with availability… similar to our being able to draft Dareus. Like I said, not holding my breath, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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